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#161
You only need 6 matched tubes if you have a 6 power tube amp...that's huge.
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#162
Hey, sorry to ask so many questions, but I just sent Doug an e-mail, and here's what he said; "I would give the RUBY EL34BSTR's a whirl in there. They have a firm low end, not too much compression and a nice "wall of sound" breakup vibe to them. In the preamp, lets start out with a Tung-Sol reissue 12ax7, then do an Electro Harmonix in V2, a JJ ECC83S in V3 and V4 and a balanced Sovtek LPS for the V5 phase inverter."

Wouldn't 6L6s be a better idea? I told him I play metal, and I'm sure he knows what he's doing, but everyone (at least on this site) says 6L6s are ideal for metal. Also, I'm pretty sure my amp doesn't have a phase inverter tube. On the back it says V4 is for reverb and V5 is the power driver; but then again it says it's an "all-tube" amp. There's no rectifier tube either; does all-tube just mean in the preamp and poweramp?

EDIT: I've been looking into Ruby 6L6's on this site, and from what I can tell, people like them in Mesa's, but a lot of people think they suck. On MF the reviews all pretty much worship them, though. Has anyone tried them?
Last edited by De Amazing Blob at Jan 27, 2007,
#163
All amps that aren't class A (read, most always more than one power tube) need a phase splitter.

Skip the balanced Sovtek. I like the EHs in my PIs.

I think you'd be better off with 6L6s too. What kind of metal? The EL34s IMO do that hard rock moving into metal territory. IMO heavier stuff from Metallica and beyond sounds much better with 6L6s.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#164
Wait... you get amps with 6 power tubes? Wtf? I thought two was enough.

EDIT: looking at the back of my amp there is space for another two power tubes. Someone should write a 'noobs guide to tubes'
#165
Quote by That_Pink_Queen
I think you'd be better off with 6L6s too. What kind of metal? The EL34s IMO do that hard rock moving into metal territory. IMO heavier stuff from Metallica and beyond sounds much better with 6L6s.
I play a lot of Metallica, Megadeth, Iced Earth, Iron Maiden, Trivium and the like. Definitely on the heavier side of things. So the V5 socket is definitely a phase inverter? Or does it not use a tube for it? Would it say PI on the back?

Quote by Preid
Wait... you get amps with 6 power tubes? Wtf? I thought two was enough.
Depends on the amp. Usually, a 50w will have 2, a 100w will have 4, and a 150w will have 6. Then the really low wattage amps use EL84s, which are like 5 watts each I think? El34s are 25w each, and I'm pretty sure 6L6GCs are 30w each.
#166
Quote by De Amazing Blob

Depends on the amp. Usually, a 50w will have 2, a 100w will have 4, and a 150w will have 6. Then the really low wattage amps use EL84s, which are like 5 watts each I think? El34s are 25w each, and I'm pretty sure 6L6GCs are 30w each.


My Champ has one 6V6; it's 6 watts. The tube itself is then 6 watts, or what?
#167
^Well, I'd assume so, but I thought 6V6s had similar wattage to 6L6s I don't really know. I mean, the Zvex Nano is .5 watts, but as far as I know there's no .5 watt tube; maybe it's something to do with the amp.
#168
Quote by De Amazing Blob
EDIT: I've been looking into Ruby 6L6's on this site, and from what I can tell, people like them in Mesa's, but a lot of people think they suck. On MF the reviews all pretty much worship them, though. Has anyone tried them?

I like my Rubys. They're very versatile, IMO, which is great because I'm using them in an amp that's supposed to be versatile (Mark IV). Maybe not what you're looking for if you play just metal. You'll probably want to look at JJs or Winged =C= SEDs.

Before you jump to decisions on the EL34s, IbanezSZ4life (or whatever his name is) swapped from 6L6s to EL34s in his Dual Recto and absolutely loves them and he likes the harder stuff.

Also, to answer a couple of questions you had, most tube amps use solid state rectification. It gives you a cleaner transition from AC to DC. Tube rectifiers give you a little bit of "sag" in the transfer. As far as the Phase Inverter, I'd go with the Sovtek. I use one and it's fine. Also, if you're going from a matched set of factory tubes to a mixed set of aftermarkets, it's interesting to switch them around to different positions to see what kind of difference it makes with your tone. I'm currently running 2 Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissues, a JJ ECC83, and 2 Sovtek 12AX7LPS with one in the phase inverter spot. With the cascading gain system that Boogies have, though, I think when I replace my preamp tubes next I'm going with a full set of the Tung-Sols. I'm really happy with them.
Hi, I'm Peter
Last edited by Dirk Gently at Jan 27, 2007,
#169
Quote by De Amazing Blob
^Well, I'd assume so, but I thought 6V6s had similar wattage to 6L6s I don't really know. I mean, the Zvex Nano is .5 watts, but as far as I know there's no .5 watt tube; maybe it's something to do with the amp.


nah, 6v6 are a lot lower wattage than 6L6.
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#170
Quote by De Amazing Blob
I'm pretty sure 6L6GCs are 30w each.


My 60W Concert takes two of 'em, so I'm guessing that's true!

Quote by De Amazing Blob
I mean, the Zvex Nano is .5 watts, but as far as I know there's no .5 watt tube; maybe it's something to do with the amp.


The Nano, and a lot of these really small tube amps, use a pre-amp type tube as a power amp tube. I think it's the equivalent of a 12au7... ? But I'm not sure.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
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#172
Just looking through the manual for my Laney, it refers to the last preamp tube as the driver tube. Is this just another name for the phase splitter tube? I'm assuming so because as an A/B amp it needs one, and I don't see any reference to a phase splitter elsewhere.
I've just ordered an EH gold series 12AX7 for that position, along with Tung-sols for the rest of the preamp positions, and red JJ EL34s for the power section. Do you think this will be a good combo? (A bit late now I know, but I thought I may as well ask since I'm posting anyway!)
#173
Quote by De Amazing Blob
Wouldn't 6L6s be a better idea? I told him I play metal, and I'm sure he knows what he's doing, but everyone (at least on this site) says 6L6s are ideal for metal. Also, I'm pretty sure my amp doesn't have a phase inverter tube. On the back it says V4 is for reverb and V5 is the power driver; but then again it says it's an "all-tube" amp. There's no rectifier tube either; does all-tube just mean in the preamp and poweramp?


EL34 will do metal just fine, my Framus Cobra comes stock with EL34, and it's basically geared towards metal players. I get ballcrushing metal tones out of it. IMO, it depends more on the specific amp what sounds best, rather than what kind of tube it's using.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#174
^ yeah, it depends on the amp, and also what you mean by metal.

a lot of the time, the amp is voiced with the specific power tubes in mind, so there'd be no reason to suggest el34's can't do metal, or 6L6's can only do metal.

generally though, if I had to pick, I'd say 6L6 for metal. But there are obviously exceptions.
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#175
All right, so one last question before I make a purchase...

I've decided on JJ 6L6s, 2 EHX 12ax7s, 2 Tung-sols, and 1 JJ. But for the JJ I don't know what to get; there's the ECC83, the ECC83 high gain, and now they have an ECC803, which has a longer plate or something; I figure the ECC83 high gain would be a safe bet, but what do you guys think?

Thanks for your help so far btw
Last edited by De Amazing Blob at Jan 28, 2007,
#176
The high gain JJ will be fine. You'll want to put it in V1 (or whichever tube is the first gain stage of the distortion channel).
#177
My new $10 amp has a couple interesting tubes in it, and I'm looking for some info on them.

The power tube is a Sylvania 7591. What's the power rating on this tube? I found them priced anywhere from $35-60, so I figure I'm already ahead of the game.

The pre amp tube is a 12ax7, and the tremolo is a 6av6 both labeled "Multivox by Mullard." I can't find anything about these at all.

Thanks!
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#178
Quote by slatsmania
My new $10 amp has a couple interesting tubes in it, and I'm looking for some info on them.

The power tube is a Sylvania 7591. What's the power rating on this tube? I found them priced anywhere from $35-60, so I figure I'm already ahead of the game.

The pre amp tube is a 12ax7, and the tremolo is a 6av6 both labeled "Multivox by Mullard." I can't find anything about these at all.

Thanks!



Nice find!

7591s were very rare for a while, although JJ and EH are making new versions now. It's a power tetrode usually used in older hi-fi amps. The output is similar to a 6l6 but higher. They run at 350-400v and in an amp with a single power tube will probably get about 20-25 watts.

The 6av6 is a 7-pin, 6.3 volt tube usually found in radios. It runs at 250v and has a gain factor of 36 (a 12AX7's gain factor is 100). It was used as a preamp tube in some old fender tweed amps as well. They aren't in high demand so replacements aren't too expensive.

Sounds like a cool amp.
#179
Thanks for the info!

Quote by Roc8995
They run at 350-400v and in an amp with a single power tube will probably get about 20-25 watts.


Really? I'll tell ya, my Epi VJ is louder than this thing. Could it be that the power tube needs replacing? Would a worn tube reduce the volume that much? Or would the speakers make that much of a difference?

If it has that much power, I may fix it up so it can push my cab. I did find an identical amp on eBay that the seller described as "louder than a Champ."

Anything on the "Multivox by Mullard" labeling on the tubes? Was this maybe an off brand from them? The power tube may already be a replacement, but I have a strong feeling the other two are originals.

Thanks again, and it is a cool amp.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#180
Your Epi is probably louder for a number of reasons: The speaker is probably much more efficient than the old one, which will make a very large difference. The age of the speaker is not an issue as long as it's in good condition. Depending on the age of the amp, it may also have a circuit which keeps the volume lower so it doesn't distort (early amps weren't designed to overdrive).

The 'Multivox By Mullard' label is probably just that: Multivox contracted Mullard to make some tubes for them, so it's a Mullard with two names on it.

Edit: The capacitors in this amp may be worn out in which case they need to be replaced before they do serious damage. If the amp starts sputtering or cutting out, turn it off immediately and have the caps changed.
Last edited by Roc8995 at Jan 31, 2007,
#181
Hey, so I just got some new tubes from Doug and I had two questions:

1) Which way do I put in my JJ 6l6s? They have 6 pins on the bottom, and there are 8 slots in my amp, so I assume there's a certain way they have to be turned; how am I supposed to know?

2) I ordered 2 EHX 12ax7s, and one of them was balanced for the PI (yes, I know you said it doesn't matter; it's only $2), and as far as I can tell, there's no way to tell the two apart. What should I do?

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing; I've heard that you have to "burn in" tubes; does that mean that you have to leave it on standby for a while, or it just won't sound as good as it will for 10-15 hours?

EDIT 2: I figured out 1 on my own, but I'd still like to know the second two. Thanks
Last edited by De Amazing Blob at Feb 2, 2007,
#182
The 8-slot socket is spaced so that there's only one way the tube can fit in. This will become apparent when you try to seat it in the socket.

As far as telling them apart, if the boxes aren't labelled then there's no way to tell without a tube tester. Just guess, it won't make a difference either way.

Tubes don't 'need' to burned in, it's just a process. They will burn in from you playing, you don't need to do anything different.

Glad to see people buying from Doug, he's a great guy.
#183
Quote by Roc8995
Nice find!

7591s were very rare for a while, although JJ and EH are making new versions now. It's a power tetrode usually used in older hi-fi amps. The output is similar to a 6l6 but higher. They run at 350-400v and in an amp with a single power tube will probably get about 20-25 watts.

The 6av6 is a 7-pin, 6.3 volt tube usually found in radios. It runs at 250v and has a gain factor of 36 (a 12AX7's gain factor is 100). It was used as a preamp tube in some old fender tweed amps as well. They aren't in high demand so replacements aren't too expensive.

Sounds like a cool amp.

Regarding the 7591s---avoid Sovtek one, they're just Sovtek 6L6s with the base repinned to fit a Socket with the 7591 pinout. They won't bias right. As Roc said, the power output is similar to a 6L6. They also need a smaller current to drive them to full power.

Quote by slatsmania
Thanks for the info!



Really? I'll tell ya, my Epi VJ is louder than this thing. Could it be that the power tube needs replacing? Would a worn tube reduce the volume that much? Or would the speakers make that much of a difference?

If it has that much power, I may fix it up so it can push my cab. I did find an identical amp on eBay that the seller described as "louder than a Champ."

Anything on the "Multivox by Mullard" labeling on the tubes? Was this maybe an off brand from them? The power tube may already be a replacement, but I have a strong feeling the other two are originals.

Thanks again, and it is a cool amp.


Well, the 25/30/whatever number of watts per tube can't really be taken so simply. There are a bunch of factors involved. Also, those are for push pull amp setups, and so a class A amp wouldn't produce as much.

Speakers can make a huge difference. Huge.

And then there's just the issue that the increase in wattage doesn't correspond linearly to volume. My 15 watt sounds just as loud as my 30 watt and my 30 watt sounds just as loud as my 50 watt really. Not a huge amount of volume difference.

Quote by De Amazing Blob
Hey, so I just got some new tubes from Doug and I had two questions:

1) Which way do I put in my JJ 6l6s? They have 6 pins on the bottom, and there are 8 slots in my amp, so I assume there's a certain way they have to be turned; how am I supposed to know?

2) I ordered 2 EHX 12ax7s, and one of them was balanced for the PI (yes, I know you said it doesn't matter; it's only $2), and as far as I can tell, there's no way to tell the two apart. What should I do?

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing; I've heard that you have to "burn in" tubes; does that mean that you have to leave it on standby for a while, or it just won't sound as good as it will for 10-15 hours?

EDIT 2: I figured out 1 on my own, but I'd still like to know the second two. Thanks

There's a keypin in tube plug thing, and a little slot in the socket. It will only fit one way. And it's only got 6 pins because 6L6s have two unused pins---pin 1 and 6 are internal disconnects. These must be the pins you're missing.

If the two are unlabeled, lol, just stick them in. It doesn't matter, remember? Stick them in, if it sounds better one way or the other (probably won't) use them in that configuration.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#184
Quote by That_Pink_Queen
Well, the 25/30/whatever number of watts per tube can't really be taken so simply. There are a bunch of factors involved. Also, those are for push pull amp setups, and so a class A amp wouldn't produce as much.

Speakers can make a huge difference. Huge.

And then there's just the issue that the increase in wattage doesn't correspond linearly to volume. My 15 watt sounds just as loud as my 30 watt and my 30 watt sounds just as loud as my 50 watt really. Not a huge amount of volume difference.


+1
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#186
Power amp tubes should be replaced every 1-2 years. Preamp tubes don't lose their tone like power amp tubes do, and won't do damage when they go, so I just replace them when they die. New production ones will last 2-4 years.
#187
I alwyas hear that groovetubes preampers are "rebranded" if that's the case what are the actual brand of their ecc83's? NOT the 12axy/ecc83's but, the ecc83/12ax7? I like those more than the Tung sols but, if they are something else then i would like to know so i can get them. I have four tung sols right now 2 of which haven't even been opened.
#188
Groove tubes rebrands a couple differen kinds of tubes, but it's most likely a Sovtek.
#189
Roc, gotta help me out.

My Laney Aor 50... well apart from its 2nd channel being useless and not being able to get it sent of for investigato. I got a pair of marshall power tubes (EL34 VLVE 00010). Much brighter than the old SVETLANA ElECTRON babies.

However, when i let go of the guitar strings and then touch them i get a 'pop' sound from the amp.

Wtf?
#190
That actually sounds like a grounding problem. Check that the grounding wire to your bridge is properly connected.
#191
Few, not going to die.

My dodgey soldiering skilz are probs to blame.

Cheers Roc
#192
Quote by Roc8995
Groove tubes rebrands a couple differen kinds of tubes, but it's most likely a Sovtek.

Yeah i heard that but, i still haven't seen the evidence to support that. Not saying it's not true i just want to know for sure because i really like the ecc83's and i want to get the right ones again. I have a quartet of Tung Sols and i don't care for them much to be honest...two of them haven't even been opened.
#193
As far as I know, Groove Tubes does not rebrand. They're Chinese tubes made in the same factory as Ruby and Shuguang, but to Groove Tubes' specifications. Companies like Mesa/Boogie openly rebrand. It's hard for any company to blame another for rebranding because all tubes in the world are essentially made in either the Chinese factory that Groove Tubes, Shuguang, and Ruby are made in, or the Reflektor plant in Russia that makes JJs, Sovtek, Svetlana, etc.
Hi, I'm Peter
#194
Quote by diesect20022000
Yeah i heard that but, i still haven't seen the evidence to support that. Not saying it's not true i just want to know for sure because i really like the ecc83's and i want to get the right ones again. I have a quartet of Tung Sols and i don't care for them much to be honest...two of them haven't even been opened.



Different brands of tubes are discernable by their construction. Many of the groove tubes preamp tubes I have seen are sovteks, although Dirk does have a point, a lot of them seem to be the chinese type lately. If you take a close-up picture of the tube I could probably ID it for you. Make sure to include a coin or something in the shot for size reference.
#195
i got a question for you guys. i just put new tubes in my ENGL SE. i put JJs KT77s in the power section. in the preamp section i put a tung sol in V1, JJECC83Ss in V2 and V#, and 9th Gen Chinese in the last two spots. my amp is a hell of a lot noisier now. is it because i used high gain tubes or is there a faulty tube? im getting a noise gate soon so if its just high gain i guess ill have that under control
#196
Noise could be coming from several locations. Is your amp properly biased? Otherwise, it could be a bad preamp tube. I don't know how much noise you mean, so it could also just be the high gain tubes. Check your preamp tubes for microphonics.
#198
For cleans, Ruby 6L6s are great. I use them in my Boogie and get awesome clean tones with them. Best place to buy them, IMO, is Doug's Tubes. www.dougstubes.com Tube Store doesn't sell them and Eurotubes only carries JJs. I've also heard the new Svetlanas are good all-purpose tubes. And they're really cheap. Tube Store carries those, as well as Doug's and Guitar Center's website. The reason I recommend Doug, btw, is the customer service, his price per tube is usually $1 or more less than Tube Store, and if you do a complete re-tube (order over $100) he does free shipping. I'm not sure what his normal shipping rates are, though.
Hi, I'm Peter
Last edited by Dirk Gently at Feb 15, 2007,
#199
^I think it's only like 6 bucks for orders under whatever the minimum is. The box he ships in is pretty tiny and it hardly weighs a thing.
#200
^ Yeah, I got 9 tubes when I ordered from him and I must say his box packing skills are masterful.
Hi, I'm Peter