Salik Syed
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2005
938 IQ
#1
I've listened to Jason Becker, Vai and Satch even Malmsteen. However none of their stuff has really amazed me as much as this one single song:
Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin

It is extremely fast and yet the melody has stayed in my head, this has never happened to me with any shred song i've listened to ... the fast parts are never memorable... with becker it's always some grand sequence of sweeping arpeggios. Musical and beautiful I'll accept that but not memorable, there is no single theme that amazes me.
Satch seems like more of a rock guitarist on steroids, some of his stuff is very unique (like day at the beach) but it is not that memorable it isn't stuck in my head.
Vai is the same, great riffs and solos but no single intensely memorable theme.
Malmsteen has great melodies (love black star) but again his fast stuff just seems like a blur, there is no single unique motif that I fall in love with. The fast parts of the Black Star main theme sound just like a flurry of notes, it is the bends and vibrato that give that melody it's distinct flavour.

But with this song: Fantasie Impromptu. The whole theme is extremely fast and yet still so memorable
can you tell me any of any Shred songs that have this similar property. I have heard plenty of shredding which has a cool riff, melody or solo but never a song that the melody is fast and yet still memorable and thematic!
insideac
is present!
Join date: May 2005
8,196 IQ
#2
I find that I can hum every single note to Yngwie Malmsteen's "Far Beyond the Sun", or Steve Vai's "Bad Horsie". Alot of these songs have alot of filler stuff though, to link the "cool" riffs together. Kind of like a connect point A to point C, and point B is in the middle, with as many notes as possible. This kind of stuff is what turns alot of peopel off to shred. There are bands like Symphony X that can shred, is extremely fast, but still has alot of melody. For some Symphony X songs that might be suited for you...The Damnation Game (The absolute must),Smoke and Mirrors, and Out of the Ashes..Sea of Lies as well. These guys are the only ones I can recommend for now without straying out of the shred formula, or that you might like.


You only have to listen to Smoke and Mirrors or The Damnation Game once, and youll probably remember most of it, and be able to hum along, even though its shred.
Last edited by insideac at Dec 26, 2006,
The Virtuoso
L'Étranger
Join date: May 2005
3,915 IQ
#3
Paul Gilbert perhaps?
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Lord_Xian
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#4
Racer X - Scarified, kinda memorable and catchy but really quite fast in places.
Originally posted by Meths
You need serious amounts of therapy.

Quote by jagstang270
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you just can't keep up.

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The Virtuoso
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#6
^lol nice timing.
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
Salik Syed
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2005
938 IQ
#7
Yes Far Beyond the Sun is an awesome song

but still it lacks the clear thematic "inter connectedness" i guess you could say of Chopins works.
Actually exactly what insideac said: there is alot of filler in shred, this is what I find bad about shred, there are useless notes in a lot of songs. Even far beyond the sun... there is no single theme that the whole song revolves around there are breaks and then changes, not a smooth evolution.


Symphony X is a cool band but they are basically a metal band with cool solos. I have heard sea of lies and It is an amazing song but not what I'm looking for .. i'll listen to some of the others.
Scarified is also an amazing song I think that is more along the lines of what I'm looking for.


What I am looking for is kind of hard to describe. I guess this is the best way to describe it:
Think about if you are making a silent movie with just background music (no dialogue)
think about what kind of movie you could make with most shred music: it would have to be fast paced and intense you couldn't just film a guy sitting there pondering his thoughts or something like that.
Fantasie impromptu can be played in a slower paced movie and yet it is still a fast paced piece of music. You can show a guy sitting there going through mental anguish, with most shred music out there the only thing I can imagine it being applicable to is an epic battle scene or something like that
Godly Moose
Co-Producer Speed Weed
Join date: Feb 2006
680 IQ
#9
              ┌────────────┐
            |  Jet fuel     |
            |  Can't melt    |
            |  Steel Beams  |
            └─────┰──────┘
                    
Last edited by Godly Moose at Dec 27, 2006,
RustyGold
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2005
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#10
the thing with shred is you can play great licks very fast but it becomes really hard to play bass notes at the same time like chopin or other classical or piano based music. so music like chopin and liszt is off limits as far as the electric guitar is concerned.
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Godly Moose
Co-Producer Speed Weed
Join date: Feb 2006
680 IQ
#11
Quote by RustyGold
the thing with shred is you can play great licks very fast but it becomes really hard to play bass notes at the same time like chopin or other classical or piano based music. so music like chopin and liszt is off limits as far as the electric guitar is concerned.


Touch-style.
              ┌────────────┐
            |  Jet fuel     |
            |  Can't melt    |
            |  Steel Beams  |
            └─────┰──────┘
                    
Lord_Xian
UG Newbei
Join date: Apr 2004
778 IQ
#12
Could give Canon rock by Jerry C a go....
Originally posted by Meths
You need serious amounts of therapy.

Quote by jagstang270
One should not try to masturbate while Dragoneforce is in the background
you just can't keep up.

Quote by waylay00
DragonForce? Sounds like some early 90's children's cartoon or action hero lineup.
RustyGold
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2005
279 IQ
#13
Quote by Godly Moose
Touch-style.


hey man that's cheating!
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Righteous
Hippyesque
Join date: Aug 2005
23 IQ
#14
Quote by Lord_Xian
Could give Canon rock by Jerry C a go....


Eeeeeeh, that's not at all what he's looken for...
I think touch style would be the only thing that could give you that kinda of sound that you're looking for.
I have nothing to put in here.
Salik Syed
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2005
938 IQ
#15
Yeah it's true electric guitar cannot play bass and melody simultaneously
but I mean they could record the bass separately it's not like shred out there today has only an electric guitar, they have bass played seperately, it's just that there is fairly little thought given to harmonizing and interweaving the bass line together.

And I would make one but I don't have the skill or experience.
Stratwizard
Fotzejäger
Join date: Feb 2005
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#16
What's the point of this thread? Whine about how shred has no themes and it's boring? Go listen to your Chopin then.
sheumack111
UG Board King
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#17
Quote by Stratwizard
What's the point of this thread? Whine about how shred has no themes and it's boring? Go listen to your Chopin then.


My thoughts exactly.
Resiliance
Acta est fabula
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#18
Quote by Stratwizard
What's the point of this thread? Whine about how shred has no themes and it's boring? Go listen to your Chopin then.


Pretty much.

Quote by Salik Syed
Yeah it's true electric guitar cannot play bass and melody simultaneously
but I mean they could record the bass separately it's not like shred out there today has only an electric guitar, they have bass played seperately, it's just that there is fairly little thought given to harmonizing and interweaving the bass line together.

And I would make one but I don't have the skill or experience.


Ever heard of Joe Pass? Tuck Andress? Mimi Fox?

Seriously, what the hell are people saying? You don't need touchstyle to play bass, chords and lead simultaneously, just a bit of effort.
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paddyo
?
Join date: Jun 2005
340 IQ
#19
^Greg Howe too. Mmmm Desiderata...
'At its best, it represents total freedom of musical expression, unfettered by technical limitations.'-Guthrie Govan on shredding
Resiliance
Acta est fabula
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#20
Quote by paddyo
^Greg Howe too. Mmmm Desiderata...


Well yeah, but he's got like two tracks like that in all of his albums, so... Though it's not really the same as say Joe Pass which is all improv ofcourse.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
paddyo
?
Join date: Jun 2005
340 IQ
#21
Lol my lack of all of his albums prevents me of that knowledge. The ability is there though!
'At its best, it represents total freedom of musical expression, unfettered by technical limitations.'-Guthrie Govan on shredding
Salik Syed
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2005
938 IQ
#22
Okay sorry, I phrased it incorrectly:
I've seen plenty of people play bass and lead simultaneously. However I doubt it would be possible in the context of the type of song i'm speaking of. Ron Thal did not play Fantasie impromptu bass and lead simulatneously. I would like to see someone play bass and melody simulatneously , while making it sound good, with a melody played @ 120bpm 16ths

It is often done in classical guitar,it is an entirely different genre and sounds different from what I am looking for.


And as for the people asking me why i'm whining.
How the hell am I whining? I am asking for suggestions. Obviously I have not heard of every artist under the sun, I just want to know about some shredders that maybe have these qualities, a focus on theme instead of the many rock influenced shredders that I have seen.
Righteous
Hippyesque
Join date: Aug 2005
23 IQ
#23
Quote by Salik Syed
Okay sorry, I phrased it incorrectly:
I've seen plenty of people play bass and lead simultaneously. However I doubt it would be possible in the context of the type of song i'm speaking of. Ron Thal did not play Fantasie impromptu bass and lead simulatneously. I would like to see someone play bass and melody simulatneously , while making it sound good, with a melody played @ 120bpm 16ths

It is often done in classical guitar,it is an entirely different genre and sounds different from what I am looking for.


You can't really play both on guitar in a shred matter because shred in what you want generally has distortion, and if you played both? That'd sound like utter noise and shizz. So you either have to have two instruments or play clean, like Joe Pass.
I have nothing to put in here.
The Virtuoso
L'Étranger
Join date: May 2005
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#24
Sabicas?

Edit: Sorry forgot you weren't looking for classical/flamenco.
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
Last edited by The Virtuoso at Dec 29, 2006,
Resiliance
Acta est fabula
Join date: Jul 2003
449 IQ
#25
Anyway, threadstarter, you might like Vinnie Moore's early neoclassical stuff.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
pavan
stunt guitar
Join date: Dec 2003
210 IQ
#26
Quote by Resiliance
Pretty much.


Ever heard of Joe Pass? Tuck Andress? Mimi Fox?

Seriously, what the hell are people saying? You don't need touchstyle to play bass, chords and lead simultaneously, just a bit of effort.


Ted Greene, what a beautiful guitarist.
I also saw a few videos in Youtube of a similar one - Lenny Breau (sp?)
"Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it." - Richard Feynman
Resiliance
Acta est fabula
Join date: Jul 2003
449 IQ
#27
I don't particularly think of Lenny as a solo guitarist, though admittedly he did do a fair share of it, nor Ted Greene (who is mostly known for his awesome comping)... Good guitarists though.

Lenny's death is one for the most tragic deaths thread also - strangled... Reportedly.

Edit: Funny thing in regards to this thread... Just remember a quote by Chet Atkins about Lenny Breau: "If Chopin had played the guitar he would have sounded like Lenny Breau"
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
sheumack111
UG Board King
Join date: Jan 2006
591 IQ
#28
How about Yngwie's Concerto Suite for electric guitar dvd. Threadster, you should check that out.