Poll: If Barry beats Hank, Should his records be held?
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View poll results: If Barry beats Hank, Should his records be held?
Barry? Hank? What?
20 26%
Yes, Barry Bonds never cheated.
7 9%
No way, He is such a cheater.
36 47%
Held, but with an astrix.
13 17%
Voters: 76.
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#1
If or when Barry Bonds breaks Hank Aaron's record, should Bonds' records be kept as normal? Let me explain...

+ =

Not to imply that he took steroids or anthing!

For now, or until they actually prove (not that i'm supporting him) he took steroids, They should keep the records, but with an astrix telling of the suspicion.
#3
He shouldnt be considered close to Aaron. He played more games, had better equipment, and used roids. The guys a fraud IMO.
#4
There should be an astrix stating he did this in the Steroid Era. They use astrixes already for the Deadball Era records.
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#5
They have already proved he took steroids, that isn't the question. He just says that he didn't know they were steroids and thought they were flaxseed oil or some other rubbish. I look at it like, hes a professional athlete so he should know what hes putting in or on his body, and even if he didn't know it, he still cheated by using the drug, intentional or not. And he's just a plain racist asshole, which doesn't help. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594
#6
i hate bonds, he's a conceited, arrogant, cheating prick. Theres no way he should be considered in the same category as Aarons, Ruth, Mays etc. Theres something suspicious about a guy in his late 30's becoming jacked and hitting 70+ homeruns...
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#7
Did Hank Aaron have to hit 105 mph sliders? No.
Was he Under medias constant microscope? No.
Did many others do waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy more steriods (*cough* big mac, canseco, sosa) YES

I voted yes, because Barry Bonds is a good player. IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN HE TOOK THEM!!!!!! PLus, i live in the bay area and im a giants fan.
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#8
Keep the records normal. It's a slippery slope and you can take the argument a very long way.

"We should give Bonds an asterix because he had better sports training and more modern diet supplements than Babe Ruth"
#9
He should be given an asterisk for sure. Professional athletes know what they put in there bodies. He should be no exception to this, its not like he couldnt have known what he was taking, the mans a millionare, if hes going to be taking steroids he is going to want to take the best of the best.
#10
EVERYONE LISEN UP!

correct me if im wrong, but i beleive that baseball equipment improves all the time right? bats, balls, cleats, gloves, you name it.
again, correct me if im wrong, but i do beleive that isnt the body part of the equipment? how would Bonds play the game if he didnt have arms?

my point: if the equipment is allowed to improve, why cant players improve or "enhance" there bodies or "equipment"? why not?

therefore i say you should keep his records, but you should put an asterisk because of the suspicion.

Thank you for reading this far
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#11
Acetate, the athletes should by all means be allowed to improve themselves, but it should be done naturally. Using steroids is cheating, because not EVERY player does them, which gives those who do an unfair advantage.
#12
Quote by Dirge Humani
not EVERY player does them, which gives those who do an unfair advantage.


well **** the rest, i say the shmucks should stop being so old fashioned and hurry up and get some needles!
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RIP Kurt Cobain
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#13
Quote by MySweetFracture
Did Hank Aaron have to hit 105 mph sliders? No.
Was he Under medias constant microscope? No.
Did many others do waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy more steriods (*cough* big mac, canseco, sosa) YES

I voted yes, because Barry Bonds is a good player. IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN HE TOOK THEM!!!!!! PLus, i live in the bay area and im a giants fan.


1) No one throws a 105 mph slider.
And there were much better pitchers at the time of Aaron. Guys through complete games and were much tougher opponents.
2) Yes he was under watch by the media.
3) Just because others cheat, doesn't give him the right to. He CHEATED. Get that through your god damned head.
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#14
Quote by MySweetFracture
Did Hank Aaron have to hit 105 mph sliders? No.
Was he Under medias constant microscope? No.
Did many others do waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy more steriods (*cough* big mac, canseco, sosa) YES

I voted yes, because Barry Bonds is a good player. IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN HE TOOK THEM!!!!!! PLus, i live in the bay area and im a giants fan.


No one throws a 105 mph slider.

I have a feeling he probably was.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and you have no proof.

You, are a biased moron.

EDIT: Darn you StratRat
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Last edited by ljplum12 at Jan 4, 2007,
#15
heck no. Barry Bonds is a great player, but he's not in the same league as Aaron. If Hank Aaron had taken steroids and had Bond's equipment, he wouldve easily broken 800 or 850 home runs. Besides, Hank Aaron had to deal with the huge amount of racism that came with being a pro black athelete in the 60's.
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#16
Quote by StratRat13
1) No one throws a 105 mph slider.
And there were much better pitchers at the time of Aaron. Guys through complete games and were much tougher opponents.
2) Yes he was under watch by the media.
3) Just because others cheat, doesn't give him the right to. He CHEATED. Get that through your god damned head.


+1 man! great stuf. Suprised there are so many sports fans on UG...
#17
Bonds is a good player, but hes a jackass, and I thought he admitted to taking them? Therefore treat him like he took them.

I voted no.
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#18
Even if he did take them, it doesn't matter. Are you telling me that Aaron never did his best to improve his performance. Athletes use whats available to them. Bonds had the opportunity to potentially improve his performance using steroids. So what?
#19
Quote by olp07
He shouldnt be considered close to Aaron. He played more games, had better equipment, and used roids. The guys a fraud IMO.



exactly.
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#20
Quote by RyanInChains9
exactly.


If I may, I would like to say you are one impressive debater. You include loads of information, and really know your stuff.
#21
I'm a huge baseball fan, and I think that Barry, if he passes Hank, should keep his stats, just have an asterix, just like all the other people who have taken steroids.

I what steroids are doing to pro sports.
METALLICA.
#22
ha sorry I was doing some homework, but I guess I can type out a full response.


First off look at the guy, his arms grew 3 times the size, and his head grew twice its previous size. Last time I checked, lifting excessively doesn't make your head grow. He refuses to be interviewed about it and denys it but so many people say he did steroids. There are also many guys who have now came out and said they did it. Its obvious something drastic changed to his body, plus he has an arm guard the size of my foot which allows him to crowd the plate like no other, therefore either getting walked, or money pitches down the middle.

Steroid testing is easy to pass anyway, MLB's drug testing is a joke.

basically
-no hall of fame, no counting of records and if you must put an astrix by his name.
I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive.


Quote by PaperStSoapCo
get new friends. i dont associate with Fall Out Boy fans. they deserve cancer and humiliation. like ass cancer.
#23
Quote by scheck006
Keep the records normal. It's a slippery slope and you can take the argument a very long way.

"We should give Bonds an asterix because he had better sports training and more modern diet supplements than Babe Ruth"

and cheated by taking illegal substances to break records.
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#24
i used to like him back when he played for the Pirates. once he went to the Giants i didnt like him anymore.


but anyone who cheats obviously doesnt deserve to be gaining something like that because of it.
#25
Quote by mr.joopy987
Even if he did take them, it doesn't matter. Are you telling me that Aaron never did his best to improve his performance. Athletes use whats available to them. Bonds had the opportunity to potentially improve his performance using steroids. So what?

Yeah, its only illegal
#26
Quote by RyanInChains9
ha sorry I was doing some homework, but I guess I can type out a full response.


First off look at the guy, his arms grew 3 times the size, and his head grew twice its previous size. Last time I checked, lifting excessively doesn't make your head grow. He refuses to be interviewed about it and denys it but so many people say he did steroids. There are also many guys who have now came out and said they did it. Its obvious something drastic changed to his body, plus he has an arm guard the size of my foot which allows him to crowd the plate like no other, therefore either getting walked, or money pitches down the middle.

Steroid testing is easy to pass anyway, MLB's drug testing is a joke.

basically
-no hall of fame, no counting of records and if you must put an astrix by his name.


Well I guess i take it back! If I blow you will you forgive me?
#27
Quote by scheck006
Keep the records normal. It's a slippery slope and you can take the argument a very long way.

"We should give Bonds an asterix because he had better sports training and more modern diet supplements than Babe Ruth"


By modern diet supplements, do you mean... illegal steroids?

:P
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#29
I think the whole "asterisk" thing is retarded. Look, baseball changes the game, baseball ignores its problems - people who break records should be the current record holder. That's it. No asterisks. Nothing so stupid.

If the entire institution of baseball knows there's a chemical abuse problem and does nothing to stop it, then there's nothing for them to complain about. And remember, steroids abusers hit balls thrown by guys who were on meth benders. It all comes out in the wash.

Besides, it's only a fucking sport. Of course athletes are going to do whatever it takes to give them a competitive advantage. What Palmiero, Bonds, McGwire, Canseco and the rest of them did wasn't against the rules. So tough shit. Put them in the Hall and let it go. Oh, and by the way, Mr. Hero Babe Ruth wasn't just an alcoholic, he was also a cokehead. Ever wonder why the supposed best player ever couldn't get a decent coaching job after his professional career ended? Ty Cobb, one of the most prolific hitters in history, cheated constantly. I wonder how many of those hits and extra base hits came at the expense of 1st basemen and 2nd basemen who got spiked by him. Athletes will do whatever they can to win. That's just the way it is. To punish modern athletes from the steroid era of Major League Baseball is retarded.
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#30
he was already doing very well in baseball before steroids
he might of been able to break records. he was said to start using in the 2002 season i think.
so it should be with an asterik he hasnt cheated his whole life
#31
Quote by Vedder
turns out he failed an amphetamine test, and surprise surprise, blamed it on someone else, story of his life. http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=191764&hubname=mlb
Mcgwire didn't make the hall of fame, nor should bonds.


mcguire used mos of his career (according to jose conseco (he said in marks rookie year he injecte himwith steoids)) barry bonds has not used them his whole career (look at pics of him through out his career you can see when he started using.
he was a hall of fame player before he started using
#32
Quote by Metal/Guitarist
mcguire used mos of his career (according to jose conseco (he said in marks rookie year he injecte himwith steoids)) barry bonds has not used them his whole career (look at pics of him through out his career you can see when he started using.
he was a hall of fame player before he started using

Lets assume he started using in 2000, just a year before his 73 homerun season (safe to assume he was using them that season) He was having a great career, but nobody would have thought of him as the future homerun king, so it is unfair to Aaron if Bonds breaks his record, which is what barry will be most famous for if it happens, so I wouldn't want to see any of his records post 2000 stand (most homeruns season, most homeruns career..assuming he gets there).
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Oh, and by the way, Mr. Hero Babe Ruth wasn't just an alcoholic, he was also a cokehead. Ever wonder why the supposed best player ever couldn't get a decent coaching job after his professional career ended? Ty Cobb, one of the most prolific hitters in history, cheated constantly. I wonder how many of those hits and extra base hits came at the expense of 1st basemen and 2nd basemen who got spiked by him.

Different story, how does alcohol or cocaine inhance your play? alcohol would inhibit it, it doesn't give you an edge like steroids does. For Ty Cobb, once again, that doesn't give you the edge that steroids does, does spiking players send balls out of the park? no.
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Last edited by Vedder at Jan 11, 2007,
#33
thats why he should have an asterik next to his name

he got most of them withot steroids
Last edited by Metal/Guitarist at Jan 11, 2007,
#34
Quote by Vedder
Different story, how does alcohol or cocaine inhance your play? alcohol would inhibit it, it doesn't give you an edge like steroids does. For Ty Cobb, once again, that doesn't give you the edge that steroids does, does spiking players send balls out of the park? no.

So what? They're still cheaters. And coke would give you a competitive edge - any stimulant would. That's why so many pitchers during the "steroid era" took amphetamines. Ty Cobb wasn't taking performance-enhancing drugs, but still committed acts that were against the rules in order to enhance his performance. The difference between a guy like Cobb or a guy like Gaylord Perry (both of whom are Hall of Famers), who was infamous for his vaseline ball, was that what they did was against the rules of baseball, whereas what McGwire and Bonds and all those guys was not. There was no rule in baseball prohibiting the use of stimulants, steroids, etc. It's not really cheating if it isn't against the rules. Everyone's just crying because people put ridiculous expectations of sainthood on athletes and don't want to face the idea that the Great American Pasttime is run by a bunch of corrupt assholes who don't care if its participants cheat chronically until it becomes public knowledge.
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#35
^he still used even while there were rules in place, and yes as long as competition has existed, cheating has existed, many people do but not to the extent that bonds did, you don't see people breaking Gretzky's or Jordan's records through cheating, if they allow bonds's records to stand it will send a terrible message out to the whole baseball world. As for pitchers, stimulants wouldn't effect their game as much, they don't enable you to throw anything except faster, which if there isn't any movement on it is very hittable. Notice that Mcgwire has been excluded from the hall of fame, even though there were no rules in place at the time?
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#36
He hasn't been excluded. Pete Rose has been excluded. Shoeless Joe Jackson has been excluded. Why? Because the only thing baseball REALLY cares about is betting. McGwire just didn't make it first ballot, which is basically the baseball writers' way of punishing him. I'm sure he'll make it in down the line. If he doesn't, that means every good player from the late 80s to the late 90s won't make it to the Hall.

As far as Gretzky and Jordan, the games are different. There's never been a huge drug scandal in basketball that I know of. Why? Basketball players generally wouldn't benefit from bulking up. Soccer, hockey and basketball require a different set of skills and have a stamina demand that sports like baseball don't. It's really a non-sequitor to try to compare athletes in different sports.
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#37
The only way I ever heard of barry bonds before is the song by Mika
then again, i'm not american, and don't know a single name of anyone that plays baseball
I don't think Mika does either...


EDIT:
haha, the song name was Billy Brown
they both have BB as their initials, ignore me
#39
Put in an astrick, or don't even count it. Even if there is no "proof" that he took steriods, there is a HUGE amount of evidence that he has. I being a cubs fan, I dont like Bonds. I say Aaron should get the record even if Barry passes.
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#40
being from atlanta i would hate to see hammerin hank's record broken by a cry-baby cheater. Aaron was the epidomy of a 1st class citizen just as any role model should be. Mabye barry will miss even more games this season so that his body will be SO messed up from using roids that he is forced to quit... but i doubt it and seeing him break Hank's record will be one of the saddest days in my sports loving history
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