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#1
Hi,

I have a mid range Ibanez S series with, as standard, 2 humbuckers and a single coil and I decided to upgrade the bridge pickup to an EMG-81, I also put in the EMG tone and volume pots but adapted the original output jack.

I followed the wiring diagram as best I could, combining the EMG wiring diagram and the wiring diagram for my guitar off the ibanez website.

Upon testing the pickup there is no sound coming from any of the pickups whatsoever.

When you insert the cable you hear the buzz sound, and when you switch between pickups you hear the crackle, so power is getting in to it, but I guess the problem must lie with the volume pot wiring?

Any suggestions?
Last edited by 1ncubu5 at Jan 21, 2007,
#2
get it done by a proffesional but u have voided the emg warrenty by trying to install it yourself
Guitars:
Ibanez IC300
Fender American Strat w/RioGrande texas specials

Amps:
Fender FM212R
a now broken tube amp

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#3
you cant mix active and passive pups.


so ya- youre not goin to get any sound unless you de solder all the passive pups, and not use them, or buy more emg's


and the diagram how you have them wired up is probably wrong as well.

cuz emg's dont have a ground to the guitar- while passives do
#5
why would you not be able to, there's absolutely nothing relating the two passive humbuckers thus nothing relating the passive and the active, the wire with the battery comes from the output jack and connects to the active pickup, having nothing to do with the passive one.

the wiring diagram on the ibanez shows the ground to the guitar, but I know not to reconnect that and it wouldn't be a big deal anyway.

there wasn't a diagram, I told you I combined the EMG diagram and the original diagram
#6
What are the controls of the guitar? How many Volumes, tones, pickups, what kind of switch.

EDIT: How did you "adapt" the jack? You need a stereo jack if you're going to use EMGs, or a switch to turn off the battery.
Will says:
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- SmarterChild - says:
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Last edited by Will_Minus at Jan 5, 2007,
#7
Here's how I wired it up, I did solder the braid to the volume casing like you're meant to but didn't show it in the diagram here
Attachments:
emg.jpg
#8
if there's something obviously wrong with the way i've wired it please tell me
#10
so you ran the red battery wire to the five way switch and not the wire inside the braided casing?

And i do believe that you can use a five way switch with emg's, its the two humbucker sets that cannot be wired with a five way because they will "kill" your amp.
Last edited by XgamerGt04 at Jan 6, 2007,
#11
why would you not be able to, there's absolutely nothing relating the two passive humbuckers thus nothing relating the passive and the active, the wire with the battery comes from the output jack and connects to the active pickup, having nothing to do with the passive one.


All your pickups go through the same tone and volume controls, also they're all connected to the same switch - position 2 is bridge and middle combined. You can mix actives and passives if you want, but it's a lot of pissing about and not really worth the hassle in my book. You cant install them the normal way, there's specifinc things you need to do to get it to work, but I think it only works on guitars with twin humbuckers and independent tone a volume controls.


From the EMG site

Can I mix EMG's with passive pickups?
It is possible to mix EMG's with passive pickups. There are three possible wiring configurations; one is better than the other two.

Use the high impedance (250K-500K) volume and tone controls. The problem is that the high impedance controls act more like a switch to the EMG's. The passive pickups, however, will work fine. If you have a guitar with two pickups and two volume pots, with a three-way switch, there is another alternative. Use the 25K pots for the EMG, and the 250K pots for the passive pickup. This way you can use one or the other with no adverse affects, but with the switch in the middle position the passive pickup will have reduced gain and response.

Use the low-impedance (25K) volume and tone controls provided with the EMG's. The problem here is that the passive pickups will suffer a reduction in gain and loss of high-frequency response.

This is the best alternative. Install an EMG-PA-2 on the passive pickups. There are two benefits to doing this. With the trimpot on the PA-2, you can adjust the gain of the passive pickups to match the EMG's. The PA-2 acts as an impedance matching device so you can use the low-impedance EMG controls (25K) without affecting the tone of the passive pickups. You will also be able to use other EMG accessory circuits such as the SPC, RPC, EXB, EXG, etc. For this application, we recommend ordering the PA-2 without the switch for easy installation on the inside of a guitar.


also...

Can I use the stock 5 way switch with my Zakk Wylde Set? No. Using a 5 way switch with two EMG active pickups results in dead spots in positions 2 and 4. This can result in damage occurring to the speaker cones, especially at high gain levels. You'll have to replace the 5 way switch with a 3 way blade switch instead, like the one shown in our diagrams.


I know you don't have the ZW set, but the same guidelines wil apply.
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#12
^ You don't use a 5 way switch with 2 humbuckers unless you're coil splitting them or messing with phasing.

You're using the same circuit (after the switch) for the passive pickups and the EMG. They need seperate circuits.

Also, don't EMGs have 3 wires coming from the pickups?

EDIT: Did you use the stock output jack, or did you buy a new stereo output jack?
Will says:
DON'T FEAR THE REAPER!
- SmarterChild - says:
I don't know if I can help it.

Member #6 of the "I play my guitar as high as Tom Morello does" club
Last edited by Will_Minus at Jan 6, 2007,
#13
ok well I guess I've done this one:

Use the low-impedance (25K) volume and tone controls provided with the EMG's. The problem here is that the passive pickups will suffer a reduction in gain and loss of high-frequency response.


what do you mean by they need seperate circuits?

The EMG's only have 2 wires, they have the red and the white, but the white has a braid on it, which you ground instead of a black - i didn't show that in the diagram but i did it.

I used the standard output jack, but am unsure if it is mono or stereo. Is there any way I can tell?
#14
Most guitars come stock with a mono switch. You'll need to go buy a stereo jack.

This is because the stereo jack act likes a switch, when the cable is in, it turns on the batterywhen the cable is out, it turns off the battery
Will says:
DON'T FEAR THE REAPER!
- SmarterChild - says:
I don't know if I can help it.

Member #6 of the "I play my guitar as high as Tom Morello does" club
#15
but did you run the red battery line to the pickup selector, if so undo that, the red wire on the emg pickup is strictly for the battery.
#16
Quote by SG thrasher
YES YOU FUCKING CAN!

God, everytime i see a thread like this someone comes in and says that.



fine - you CAN mix active and passive- but only one easy way. you have to buy an active booster for the pups- basically makin them active... and thats a waste of time and money imo
#17
Quote by 1ncubu5
ok well I guess I've done this one:


what do you mean by they need seperate circuits?

The EMG's only have 2 wires, they have the red and the white, but the white has a braid on it, which you ground instead of a black - i didn't show that in the diagram but i did it.

I used the standard output jack, but am unsure if it is mono or stereo. Is there any way I can tell?



um... the standard output jack is wrong. i can tell you that already. no guitar companies use those stock unless the have active pups in them


also i think you should take a break, buy some more emg's or a active booster , and re wire it.

cuz it sounds like your mutilating the set right now- however your trying to do this- its not workin right. so take a step back- and read up on the emg's on there site, and then good mixing active passive pups
#19
Quote by SG thrasher
You can't use a 5 way switch with EMG's, i don't think, read the FAQ on the site.

Quote by Will_Minus
^ You don't use a 5 way switch with 2 humbuckers unless you're coil splitting them or messing with phasing.

You're using the same circuit (after the switch) for the passive pickups and the EMG. They need seperate circuits.

Also, don't EMGs have 3 wires coming from the pickups?

EDIT: Did you use the stock output jack, or did you buy a new stereo output jack?

My ibanez has an emg 81/85 combo and it is to a 5 way switch with no problems.
It works like this
1st position - 81
2nd position - 81
3rd position - 81 & 85
4th position - 85
5th position - 85
Ibanez RGT42DXFX with emg 81/85
Schecter C1-Classic
Vox AD30VT
Knock off P-Bass
#20
^ hahaha- so basically you have it wired like a 3 way switch? just 2 positions are the same.

wat hes sayin is you cant have 2 emg pups on a 5 way switch without there being duplicate signals- or dead spots


Quote by SG thrasher
Wrong again.


all right- do tell me how then? is that not the easiest way? shure seems like you say something wrong- but you dont have any evidence.


please..do explain... cuz i know my shit on emg's- ive installed several sets of them, and looked into mixing active and passive pups- ant on a guitar where theres not 4 knobs, so you can have 2 separate circuits, or using concentric pots- or using 250k pots* which hardly work as pots tpots any more- more like on off switches* there is no easy way to do..


so enlighten me dude- or shut the ****
Last edited by tongue untied at Jan 7, 2007,
#21
when i get the cash i'll get another emg for the neck, but for now i can live with reduced gain in the neck hb and the sc, this guitars mainly for metal anyway so it's mostly bridge pickup work.

So I need a stereo output jack and a 3 way switch, how would I wire a 3 way switch with all 3 pickups? All the diagrams I find for 3 pickups use a 5 way switch
#22
the reason that you cant use the 5 way is that in certain positions there is no signal, this is only if you have no middle p-up, or if you are not using the other two positions for something else. Its like the old noob mistake of thinking a killswitch just "breaks the signal to the output jack" this is rubbish, and can kill your amp, but this is what the 5 way switch does if its wired like a 3 way. a killswitch should always divert the signal to ground.


"You're a MESS!"
#23
so since i'm still using my single coil in the middle i can still use my 5 way switch?

sorry if i'm being totally stupid
#26
my guitar has a barrel type output jack, the sites I've found with the part don't have sizes listed for it so I can't compare them with mine.

Are the barrel output jacks all a standard size?
#27
Barrel? You could always just get a Les Paul style jack mount plate.
Will says:
DON'T FEAR THE REAPER!
- SmarterChild - says:
I don't know if I can help it.

Member #6 of the "I play my guitar as high as Tom Morello does" club
#28
Quote by tongue untied
you cant mix active and passive pups.


so ya- youre not goin to get any sound unless you de solder all the passive pups, and not use them, or buy more emg's


and the diagram how you have them wired up is probably wrong as well.

cuz emg's dont have a ground to the guitar- while passives do


That's bullshit...there's a Schecter C1 at Guitar center with an EMG-81 at the bridge and a regular schecter humbucker at the neck.
#30
O.K.,

Your problem is that when you mix active and passive pickups, the power to the active pickup must be a dedicated circuit. A passive pickup is a coil, and to a DC battery, it represents a dead short. So you can mix active and passive, but you can't have an active and passive pickup selected at the same time, as the passive pickup is shorting out your battery.

You generally need to replace the switch in your guitar with a 5 way double pole switch to achieve this, as you want to isolate your active pickup from the passives. So in position 1, the EMG will be on (position 2 may as well be wired the same way at this point, unless you want a mute), and positions 3 to 5 will be for your passives. The other pole is for the battery power so it is only on when the EMG is selected and shorthed to the other pole that has the EMGs on it (in this case you will have 4 terminals that are shorted).

The drawback to this is that the EMG is powered on when you switch to it, so it may pop, or ramp up when you select it. (it is normally always powered on when plugged in).

There is another way around this, which is to use a DC blocking cap to isolate the battery power from the rest of the pickups. If you do a google search for 'Phantom Power' you will see how this works with active microphones and find the DC blocking value that is least likely to affect your tone (but it will need to be quite resistive below 20Hz).

You normally need a switching jack to power the unit when it is plugged in. You can use a stereo jack and use the ring and sleve, as they will be shorted by your mono guitar plug.

Good Luck
#31
thanks for the info, you clearly know what you're talking about.

That all sounds pretty complex, would i be a lot easier just buying a 3 way switch?
#32
A double pole three way switch will work the same way as the 5 way, except you will not be able to combine the passives together.

A blocking cap is your simplest solution.


____________________________|C________
(+) | |
Battery ACTIVE PICKUP PASSIVE PICKUPS
(-)_______JS_________|___________________|

JS is the "Jack Switch"
|C is the cap

This is a little over simplified (no switching) as I suck at typing diagrams.

The cap blocks the battery voltage, and it has to be the right value so that it doesn't muck up your tone too much. You can test your guitar by putting a small light bulb (or an LED with a resistor is series with it) in line before you passive pickups. When you have the right value, the bulb will not light at all. (Don't leave the bulb in there when you are done).

If this is all greek to you, you should either enlist in some help in learning a little about electronics, or pay someone to do it for you.

Good Luck.
#33
Sorry, my text diagram go a litt;e messed up when I posted - the two |'s beside the positive terminal should be going to each pickup.

I also forgot to tell you that you can't just use a single pole three-way switch because you will be shorting the battery if you select either of the passive pickups, or injecting 9 Volts into the input of whatever you are connecting the guitar to.
#34
Thanks for your reply - lastnight I made this problem a lot simpler as an ebay impulse buy resulted in an EMG 85 neck pickup... lol

So i'm just not going to bother wiring the centre single coil back in, buy a 3 ways switch and stereo output jack then wire the 81 and 85 to it

#35
so whats the deal with this stereo output jack, it just arrived. My last one had a short pin, medium pin and long pin but this one has short long and a...thing. Is the thing the earth/cable holder? where would you solder on to it?

#36
I'm going to guess that...

Long = tip
Medium = ring
Short = sleeve

Don't quote me on this, but the battery has to connect to the ring or the sleeve, and then the sleeve or ring (the one the battery isn't connected to) has to be the hot, which completes the circuit and turns on the battery. The tip is the ground.

If I'm wrong, then the tip is the hot, and the ring/sleeve is the ground, and the unused rung or sleeve is the battery.
Will says:
DON'T FEAR THE REAPER!
- SmarterChild - says:
I don't know if I can help it.

Member #6 of the "I play my guitar as high as Tom Morello does" club
#37
Quote by Eric 666
That's bullshit...there's a Schecter C1 at Guitar center with an EMG-81 at the bridge and a regular schecter humbucker at the neck.



read a thread before you post...this has bin gone over HELLA times

you can, but its a **** load of work
#38
Quote by Eric 666
That's bullshit...there's a Schecter C1 at Guitar center with an EMG-81 at the bridge and a regular schecter humbucker at the neck.


Are you sure it wasn't either an actice Schecter pickup or a passive EMG? I don't think that it would have come stock like, Schecter wouldn't mess around with the relatively complicated wiring needed to have a setup like that.
"Everybody, one day will die and be forgotten. Act and behave in a way that will make life interesting and fun. Find a passion, form relationships, don't be afraid to get out there and fuck what everyone else thinks."
#39
Quote by steven seagull
All your pickups go through the same tone and volume controls, also they're all connected to the same switch - position 2 is bridge and middle combined. You can mix actives and passives if you want, but it's a lot of pissing about and not really worth the hassle in my book. You cant install them the normal way, there's specifinc things you need to do to get it to work, but I think it only works on guitars with twin humbuckers and independent tone a volume controls.


From the EMG site


also...



I know you don't have the ZW set, but the same guidelines wil apply.


What the ****? Yes you can. I have two sets of EMG pickups where I use 5 way switches. I've even used 5 way switches for H/H guitars, not H/S/S or H/S/H or some shit.
#40
ok, hopefully this is my last question...

how do I wire up my 3 way lever switch, all the diagrams have the switch that has 4 points on each side of the switch, but mine just has 8 in a row and i'm not sure which one relates to which...

there's a picture on here with the 4 on each side, if someone could translate it to the 8 in a row style switch id be thankful

http://www.emginc.com/downloads/wiringdiagrams/Humbuckers_active.pdf
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