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#1
I'll be getting a a bonus from work in February, and i've decided that it's going to be now or never to making the jump to a high end amp.

I play punk rock, along the lines of Rise Against, NOFX, Millencolin, yadda yadda and i'm in the market for something with nice gain as that's the only effect I use.

I've asked people and the automatic reaction has been "rectifier", but what's the comparison like with the Mark IV, Rectifier, Stiletto.

It's going to be a right chore trying to get to play some of these amps, most likely a trip to Leeds (3 hour round trip) as they're about as common as rocking horse shit in the UK

So please, can some one help me!
#2
Just a warning: If you live in the UK they're likely going to cost about twice as much as in the U.S. too. You'd probably be better off with an amp like a Framus or an Engl.
#3
Yeah, tell me about it. They're currently about £1,900 brand new, which is about $3700.

The Framus Cobra is £1,300, but isn't that more an amp suited to heavy metal?
#5
The Cobra does best at metal, but from what at hear has the best cleans ever heard on a high-gain amp. I assumed from the Mesa's that you play metal, but I guess I don't know. And I don't know which amp you were referring to in the above post, but Dual Rec's here are $1700 new... I wouldn't get Mesa unless you are completely in love with the tone and completely loaded What are you styles and budget exactly?
#6
Well if your only using gain/distortion why don't you just get a good middlepriced amp [Mesa is overpriced] and a top of the line overdrive/distortion pedal, you'd do wonders to that preverbial hole in your pocket.
#7
Quote by De Amazing Blob
The Cobra does best at metal, but from what at hear has the best cleans ever heard on a high-gain amp. I assumed from the Mesa's that you play metal, but I guess I don't know. And I don't know which amp you were referring to in the above post, but Dual Rec's here are $1700 new... I wouldn't get Mesa unless you are completely in love with the tone and completely loaded What are you styles and budget exactly?


I play punk rock, and regulary gig. Budget is really £2k, as i'm planning this to be a longer term investment.
#8
Hey, you can import a Recto on Ebay USA for about 1200-1400$ shipped, thats about 700£
^ seconded.

Äh, Sie wollen also mit Schlitz.
#9
Well, with that kind of budget you could get most anything on the market; I would take a long look at Engl, I'm not sure which ones are the best or anything, but the ones I hear mentioned most on this forum are the Savage (Dave_mc has a Savage Special Edition), Powerball, and Blackmore. I don't know much about them since I haven't really looked at them because of the price. As I said before the Framus Cobra is an option, but it's very dark sounding and has a unique voicing that some love and some hate. Erock has one, and he has a Mesa Mark IV, so you'll probably want to see if he shows up. You could also consider some amps like Bogner and Diezel with that kind of money.
#10
I LOVE my recto! Great amp, very versatile, but keep in mind, with a high end amp, the rest of your rig should be top notch also. An I mean EVERYTHING.

I recently played a Framus Cobra for the first time, and really didn't like the amp. The cleans were amazing for such a high gain amp. The drive, though, was way too metal for my taste. Very scooped, it seemed, and lacked quite a bit of crunch....sounded a bit too prossesed for me liking. Then again, I have been using much less gain lately, so maybe it's just not my thing

Depending on the remainder of your rig, maybe you should go for an amp that is more reasonably priced in the UK....Marshall definitely comes to mind for the tones you're looking for. You can get the amp out there for a more reasonable price, then perfect the remainder of your rig.

Otherwise, if you're really set on mesa, importing through ebay wouldn't be a bad idea. You'll get hit with customs, but it will still be cheaper.
#11
Yehh, ENGL all the way.

I've also heard things about Mesas having a consdierably shorter life span than more high-end counterparts.
#12
To be honest i've never come across Engl amps around here. I guess i'm trying to draw up a shortlist of amps that I can ring around and find places with them, so I can take my guitar and try them.

I'm quite interested in the Mark IV, and I can get to one in Newcastle which isn't a far trip.

What amps in the Engl range are worth checking out, likewise with the others.
#13
Well you said the only thign you use is distortion/gain so it's not too neccessary imo to get a fullout majorly priced amp.
#14
Quote by chrispozzobon
Well you said the only thign you use is distortion/gain so it's not too neccessary imo to get a fullout majorly priced amp.


A fair point. I'm searching for that distortion that sounds right to me. I don't want anything too weak sounding, which is why I'm going to retire the JCM, so I want a modern, ballsy and thick-liquid distortion. I don't know if that last point makes any sense, but that's how i'm perceiving the tone i'm after.

I've not been impressed with Marshall's. I've played the DSL and TSL cranked and they really did lack character and the tone seemed a bit generic.
#15
Yeah.. have you tried any distortion pedals? Or overdrive or something to maybe look for that tone?
#16
^ If he's looking into amps like MESA, ENGL, Framus, whatever a pedal won't cut it.
"You can practice to attain knowledge, but you can't practice to attain wisdom." - Herbie Hancock
#17
well heres a breakdown, the rectos, have almost no mids, they are taken out to give it that dark edge, the marks can be setup for anything from jazz to metal, they really are quite amazing for an amp that started life as a gutted ampeg head, they tend to have a more classic setup, mids a tad treblely but not bad, when i play marks i just keep the treble at 5 and that solves the issue, now the stillettos remind me alot of the old 2 channel rectos, but they have EL34s so the distortion breaks up really quick and they just have your marshall-esque tone but without as much midrange really cool amps, ive seen alot of punk guys come in for dual rectos and stillettos, the dual recto normally wins, non of them try marks because they look funny or they cant afford them
my gear//
GUITARS
ESP Horizon Custom
ESP M202BB
ESP HB300
Gibson LP Custom
Gibson V
AMPS
Orange Rockverb 50
Mesa Triple Recti
Marshall JCM800 2210
#18
What's the difference between the singe, dual and triple rectifiers in terms of tone etc
#19
Obviously, the Dual and Triple have more head room, so you're not going to push the tubes as easily as you would with the single. Also, the Dual and Triple have selectable tube or solid state rectifiers. The Single just has solid state. Tube rectifiers have a little more "sag."
Hi, I'm Peter
#20
well first off the single is only a 2 channel amp, but it basically can get the same tones as a dual, the dual has a clean tone that isnt great, its really bassy, i use a SD jazz to help with that, the distortions are pretty straight forward mesa little midrange, a tad treblely but not bad thanks to the 6L6s, good surge of bass in it, the triple has a decent clean tone, actually better than the dual, distortion wise exact same, they are capible of punk tones you just have to take the time to set them up, which with rectos is the hardest part its about 2 days of hell finding your exact tone
my gear//
GUITARS
ESP Horizon Custom
ESP M202BB
ESP HB300
Gibson LP Custom
Gibson V
AMPS
Orange Rockverb 50
Mesa Triple Recti
Marshall JCM800 2210
#21
^ That's the problem with any higher-end Boogie. Mark IVs are almost worse than the Rectos, and the Road King...well...you should hire a team of engineers.
Hi, I'm Peter
#22
yeah, the newer DR's and TR's also have 3 channels, where the single only has 2. Single=50W, dual=100W, triple=150W. The DR and TR also have a few more features, like the bold/spongy(acts like internal variac), assignable loop, and the option of vacuum tube rectifiers like Dirk said.

Quote by ibanez4life SZ!
I recently played a Framus Cobra for the first time, and really didn't like the amp. The cleans were amazing for such a high gain amp. The drive, though, was way too metal for my taste. Very scooped, it seemed, and lacked quite a bit of crunch....sounded a bit too prossesed for me liking. Then again, I have been using much less gain lately, so maybe it's just not my thing

I'm surprised Eric, it's very close sounding to a recto IMO. How long did you get to play with it and EQ it, and was it factory biased? There is a notch switch on the crunch and lead channels that shifts the mids and changes the voicing somewhat, I think "un" notched would be more your taste if it was too "metal" sounding. It's a lot easier to EQ than a Mesa, you don't need a month with the active EQ, but you should still give it some time if you're new to it.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
amp clips
amp vids
Last edited by Erock503 at Jan 10, 2007,
#23
Quote by Dirk Gently
Obviously, the Dual and Triple have more head room, so you're not going to push the tubes as easily as you would with the single. Also, the Dual and Triple have selectable tube or solid state rectifiers. The Single just has solid state. Tube rectifiers have a little more "sag."


I'm going to put my n00b hat on now and ask what rectifiers are, what they do and how they contribute to the sound.

Forgive me if i'm asking a lot of perhaps basic questions, but I want to know what makes a Rectifier different to other amps
#24
a rectifier i believe if im correct is what changes your electronic noise from the pickups to the sound that comes out of the speakers, haha, someone explain that better, i have not been asked that in so long, but rectos are designed differently just because the amp is 150 watts doesnt mean you have to crank it to get a nice breakup, i normally have my triple at about 6 and it breaks up and sounds like a recto should
my gear//
GUITARS
ESP Horizon Custom
ESP M202BB
ESP HB300
Gibson LP Custom
Gibson V
AMPS
Orange Rockverb 50
Mesa Triple Recti
Marshall JCM800 2210
#25
Rectifiers convert AC to DC for the amp circuit. The vacuum tubes are less efficient at supplying current, so it adds a "sag" or "sponginess" to the sound as the amp chokes when it needs the most power. Lower frequencies need more power at higher volumes, and the more current the amp pulls, the higher the voltage drop and power drop. Silicone diode rectifiers have no internal resistance, so don't suffer from the voltage drop as the current increases. The result is a tighter punchier sound with more headroom.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
amp clips
amp vids
#26
I'm going to try and look at the single and dual. I think the triple would be excessive for what I need. Although, the Mark IV sounds like it would be worth looking into. I wouldn't mind trying the Framus too, but I think it might be a case of heading to a major city to try one, good job i've got a rail card!
#27
By the way if Newcastle isnt far away, you should try going to GuitarGuitar they sell Bogners and Mesa's amoung others, give the website a look, www.guitarguitar.co.uk
Gear:
Ibanez S470DXQM (Swinehead pups)
Fender Custom Shop American Classic Strat
Mesa/Boogie Lone Star special
Marshall Guv'nor GV - 2
Boss Overdrive OD - 3
Ibanez Weeping Demon WD7
Boss Digtal Delay DD-6
Flanger
#28
Try a dual recto roadster.
It's basically the same as a dual recto but:
It's a combo
4 channels instead of 3
each channel you can change: reverb (it's amazing reverb), wattage, rectifier, and loop.
the cleans sound supurb and sound like a lonestar.


Just another option for you to consider.
My Rig:
PRS SE custom
cube 60
Dual Rectifier Roadster (2X12 combo)
DR strings
EHX Multiplexer
#29
krankenstien got a ****load of gain. too much in fact. still pretty quiet though
marshalls are good too, less gain but cheaper
mesa well not sure. based on the price difference between us and uk go with something else or buy off ebay
Quote by rooster456
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#30
Quote by Csquared1001
krankenstien got a ****load of gain. too much in fact. still pretty quiet though
marshalls are good too, less gain but cheaper
mesa well not sure. based on the price difference between us and uk go with something else or buy off ebay


ahhh...the krankenstien. I played it and I didn't really like it. It just sounded kinda steril and solid state-y. I don't know...maybe it's just me. Looks cool, but doesn't touch my Mesa tone.
My Rig:
PRS SE custom
cube 60
Dual Rectifier Roadster (2X12 combo)
DR strings
EHX Multiplexer
#31
Quote by zackprs
Try a dual recto roadster.
It's basically the same as a dual recto but:
It's a combo
4 channels instead of 3
each channel you can change: reverb (it's amazing reverb), wattage, rectifier, and loop.
the cleans sound supurb and sound like a lonestar.


Just another option for you to consider.


Its not just a combo mate, it's a head as well.
http://mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/roadster/roadster.html

But if the normal Rectifier series are equal to $3,000+ USD there, I can only imagine a Roadster/Roadking
#32
Quote by Half_Full
Its not just a combo mate, it's a head as well.
http://mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rectifier_Series/roadster/roadster.html

But if the normal Rectifier series are equal to $3,000+ USD there, I can only imagine a Roadster/Roadking



sorry...I had a brainfart!
Yeah...I haven't tried the head...but it's the same right?
My Rig:
PRS SE custom
cube 60
Dual Rectifier Roadster (2X12 combo)
DR strings
EHX Multiplexer
#33
back in the mid 80s i went to numerous punk/hardcore shows, and NONE of them used anything else but a Marshall half stack. i repeat, NONE of the punk/hardcore bands i saw used ANY OTHER AMP besides marshall. and i think they were all jcm 800/900
Last edited by sethp at Jan 10, 2007,
#34
Quote by zackprs
sorry...I had a brainfart!
Yeah...I haven't tried the head...but it's the same right?


Personally, I think the head sounded just a tad bit different. But maybe that's because I had a 4x12 cab? But yeah, essentially they're the same.
#35
Quote by De Amazing Blob
Just a warning: If you live in the UK they're likely going to cost about twice as much as in the U.S. too. You'd probably be better off with an amp like a Framus or an Engl.


+ 100 billion.

make sure you try all the other boutique amps you can in the UK- mesa are, in my opinion, horribly over-priced.

You have things like diezel, cornford, engl, koch, etc., which all pwn mesa, IMO.

Of course, if you try everything you can, and prefer the mesa, by all means go for it. Just don't buy mesa without trying all the alternatives, and don't buy into the "it's expensive so it must be good" bullshit that many guitar stores try to peddle.



Oh, and engls in your price-range would likely be savage, invader, and (maybe) SE. If you order the SE from Germany. Just to confirm though, the £2000 is for the head alone?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Cornford Hellcat ??

Punk is played with crunch right..... and G.Govan got a nice crunch outta his.....
Tone is all ...... well probably 75%, in your fingers.
The rest depends on your wallet's thickness !!

Keep the faith, baby!!
#37
Quote by Dave_Mc
+ 100 billion.
Of course, if you try everything you can, and prefer the mesa, by all means go for it. Just don't buy mesa without trying all the alternatives, and don't buy into the "it's expensive so it must be good" bullshit that many guitar stores try to peddle.

Oh, and engls in your price-range would likely be savage, invader, and (maybe) SE. If you order the SE from Germany. Just to confirm though, the £2000 is for the head alone?


Yeah, i'm trying to get a few recommendations for high end amps so I can go and try them for myself. I've read up on the Invader and I like the sound of the 4 channels with high/low gain switches, so i'm going to try and find somewhere to play that.

bluespunkmetal, i'm not really after too much crunch, I like a harder tone for my sound
#38
Quote by bluespunkmetal
Cornford Hellcat ??

Punk is played with crunch right..... and G.Govan got a nice crunch outta his.....


cornfords kick ass. the MK50 mark II would be just within price range too, I haven't been able to try it (or the mark I), unfortunately.

EDIT: the cornford tone is kind of half-way between crunch and a harder sound, you may not like it, though.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
I believe I started a thread, not oo ong ago where this very topic was being covered
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Musician for 14 years. Been inactive on UG since 2007. My have times changed. It's good to be back.
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