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#3
unless your autistic, all you have to do is practice a lot
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#4
well, no matter how talented you are, you should always put in a good effort. unless you're reallly talented and dont need to practice.
#5
well if you put in lots of effort you will practice more often usual,so the more you practice the more talented you become. so it all starts with a little effort
#6
but if you ARE autistic then it HAS to be 56.68% Talent and 43.32% Effort...

otherwise the consiquenses will be DIRE
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#8
I would say it's...

90 percent effort 10 percent talent.

Naturally, you really can't be born with talent (you work up to where you are now)....unless you're singing, then that's something different.

Basically, the more effort you put into playing an instrument...the better you'll get. Ever see that guy who has no arms but can play the guitar with his feet...very well?

Well, it wasn't his neccessary talent to play with feet, but it was effort.


Also, I see talent as something that you start out with...and you build upon that.
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#9
Talent is worthless without effort....doesn't matter how much flair you've got for the instrument, if you don't put the hard work in you'll always be crap.
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#10
It's all talent. If you couldn't play For the Love of God the first time you picked up the guitar, you're not getting anywhere. Duh.
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#11
Talent has a very little to do with how proficient you are with your instrument. Right practice methods and hard work is all you need.
#13
I think hard work is the most important thing up to a point. Regardless of whether you have any real talent, practicing for hours every day will make a tight rhythm guitarist, bass player or drummer of you. Composing songs, singing and improvising licks tends to be something that some people just don't have, no matter how hard they work, but anyone can be in a band if they put the hours in.
Quote by The devil at the crossroads
E|-------------------------------------------1--
B|-----------------------------------1--4--
G|-------------------------1-3-4--
D|------------------1-3----
A|--------1-2-3----
E|-1-4-----

Just move it around the fretboard
#14
For once in my life I actually feel good about being autistic! Well, I can say from an able-autistic (asperger's syndrome)'s point of view that it still takes effort, no matter what. For me, I'd say it's a 70/30 split. Proper practice techniques and study are very, very important.
#15
You cant be talented at guitar, we werent made for playing the guitar, which is why its so damn hard. So Id say 90 percent is effort, and 10 percent is mental talent, which would mean you have a good ear to start with, etc.
#16
Quote by insideac
You cant be talented at guitar, we werent made for playing the guitar, which is why its so damn hard. So Id say 90 percent is effort, and 10 percent is mental talent, which would mean you have a good ear to start with, etc.


You can be lucky or unlucky when it comes to the fingers. Most famous guitarists have long, slender fingers. With short sausage fingers it's harder, but still very possible (just look at redd volkaert).
#17
I've never known anyone that was too talented to give anything an effort. SRV and John Petrucci would not be guitarists without effort, but i think we can all say they are both very talented.

Like me. When it comes to guitar i have no talent, all my progress has come from effort; but i play hockey, i can be the best player out there without giving it much effort. Thats just my thing.
#18
I think overdubbed John Petrucci said it best "You can't really play that fast, because I'm so..fast. Now if theres any point where this feels to difficult, then just stop, you don't have it, you're just not good. I was putting it at 4 million, and if it felt like I was putting it at 5 million, just stop, put the guitar down, and sell it on ebay or something 'cause you're shit. Here's some advice. Kill yourself."
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#19
Quote by mr_hankey
You can be lucky or unlucky when it comes to the fingers. Most famous guitarists have long, slender fingers. With short sausage fingers it's harder, but still very possible (just look at redd volkaert).



That doesnt count as talent, though. Sides, guitarists like Michael Romeo with small fat hands pwn the hell outta alot of other guitarists with long fingers.
#20
Quote by mr_hankey
You can be lucky or unlucky when it comes to the fingers. Most famous guitarists have long, slender fingers. With short sausage fingers it's harder, but still very possible (just look at redd volkaert).


Check out the hands on Andre Segovia, and he was possibly the greatest classical guitarist ever, certainly the man who's technique every classical student is taught.





Quote by The devil at the crossroads
E|-------------------------------------------1--
B|-----------------------------------1--4--
G|-------------------------1-3-4--
D|------------------1-3----
A|--------1-2-3----
E|-1-4-----

Just move it around the fretboard
#21
I disagree with everyone thus far who has said natural talent isn't worth a thing when it comes to guitar. I know for a fact that I've been practicing much more than a friend of mine, but he still progresses infinitely faster than me. He was mastering Metallica solos when I was just starting to learn how to play fast.
#22
Quote by yawn
I disagree with everyone thus far who has said natural talent isn't worth a thing when it comes to guitar. I know for a fact that I've been practicing much more than a friend of mine, but he still progresses infinitely faster than me. He was mastering Metallica solos when I was just starting to learn how to play fast.



This isnt talent, this is being smart and clever. He just thinks in a more organized and advanced way, not trying to sound rude. When I first started playing guitar, I sucked physically but I noticed all the mistakes that people made when they played, such as the wrong ways to practice, the right ways, etc, and so by my second year I had left most of the 10-12 year experience players in the dust, because the way that they learned everything wasnt in a neat fashion, so they didnt have all the info stored in their head properly, thus couldnt learn as well. Its the same as the type of people that study really hard and get 70s or 80s on a test, while the "slacker" sits in the back sleeping and gets 80s or 90s on the test, because he can retain and process informatio better.
#23
^ Well, then he has the talent of being able to memorize things better
#24
Talent is the excuse of those who are lazy and inefficient. That's all you need to know.
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He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


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#25
Quote by Resiliance
Talent is the excuse of those who are lazy and inefficient. That's all you need to know.
#26
Quote by Jinskee
I would say it's...

90 percent effort 10 percent talent.

Naturally, you really can't be born with talent (you work up to where you are now)....unless you're singing, then that's something different.

Basically, the more effort you put into playing an instrument...the better you'll get. Ever see that guy who has no arms but can play the guitar with his feet...very well?

Well, it wasn't his neccessary talent to play with feet, but it was effort.


Also, I see talent as something that you start out with...and you build upon that.


bullshit, I can hear talent.

It's a bit of both, unsurprisingly.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#27
Quote by Resiliance
Talent is the excuse of those who are lazy and inefficient. That's all you need to know.


it really isn't. I've heard people play pieces of music faultlessly, but it sounds mechanical if they have no musical talent, so to speak.

I think EVH put it best (this is paraphrased)- "I heard two pianists play the same piece of music the other night. One was like the fingers were made of lead, but with the other every note was beautiful" (they each played it technically perfectly).

Granted you need to practice too, but if you have talent and practice too, you're awesome.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
Quote by Dave_Mc
it really isn't. I've heard people play pieces of music faultlessly, but it sounds mechanical if they have no musical talent, so to speak.

I think EVH put it best (this is paraphrased)- "I heard two pianists play the same piece of music the other night. One was like the fingers were made of lead, but with the other every note was beautiful" (they each played it technically perfectly).

Granted you need to practice too, but if you have talent and practice too, you're awesome.


No... You see, this is going back to the whole emotion in music thing. I believe that something doesn't and can not possibly objectively sound mechanical.

There's no such thing as a beautiful piece of music, there are only pieces of music you find beautiful, therefore there cannot be such a talent.

I'm sick and tired of people using their lack of supposed talent as an excuse for not practicing or not practicing correctly. Anyone can be great when they practice enough and efficiently. Did Django have a talent to play with his crippled fingers? No. He practiced his ass off.

Quote by yawn


Nice rebuttal. Any other arguments?
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


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Click.
#29
Quote by Resiliance
Nice rebuttal. Any other arguments?
Yeah:


#30
Quote by Resiliance
No... You see, this is going back to the whole emotion in music thing. I believe that something doesn't and can not possibly objectively sound mechanical.

There's no such thing as a beautiful piece of music, there are only pieces of music you find beautiful, therefore there cannot be such a talent.

I'm sick and tired of people using their lack of supposed talent as an excuse for not practicing or not practicing correctly. Anyone can be great when they practice enough and efficiently. Did Django have a talent to play with his crippled fingers? No. He practiced his ass off.


I disagree. I bet django had musical talent there to begin with, and then had to practice to get good with less fingers.

I agree about the personal preference thing, though.

But I still say I can hear talent- granted, that's probably my personal preference about what sounds good and what doesn't, but I can hear it.

obviously it's not a black and white "talented" or "not talented", it's a sliding scale, lol.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc
But I still say I can hear talent- granted, that's probably my personal preference about what sounds good and what doesn't, but I can hear it.


This is exactly what I mean, that's not talent, that's just preference.

Quite frankly, I find it proposterous to say one can possibly "hear" talent. Or emotion, for that matter I mean... Who made you the all-knowing music judge setting the standards by which all music should be judged and would have to be if you are to say something like that?
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#32
Quote by Resiliance
This is exactly what I mean, that's not talent, that's just preference.

Quite frankly, I find it proposterous to say one can possibly "hear" talent. Or emotion, for that matter I mean... Who made you the all-knowing music judge setting the standards by which all music should be judged and would have to be if you are to say something like that?



fair enough. But you're saying the exact opposite, that there's no such thing as talent. Who made you the judge instead of me?

I think it's pretty moot anyway. if there's no such thing as talent, how come some people are tone deaf while others have relative, or even perfect, pitch? That some people pick up things faster than others? How come some people can shred after not long, while other can never shred (taking extreme amounts of practice out of the equation)?

To argue that there isn't some form of talent is pretty difficult, even apart from personal preference.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
^ Apparently it's the product of laziness and inefficiency.
#34
^

seriously, though, I agree with what some of resi says. It's true that some people use "lack of talent" as an excuse not to practice.

But to argue that there's no talent at all?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
Quote by Dave_Mc
^

seriously, though, I agree with what some of resi says. It's true that some people use "lack of talent" as an excuse not to practice.

But to argue that there's no talent at all?



Talent isnt really talent though, its relative, really. If someone thats been playing a few years today and can shred, goes back in time to maybe Elvis or Hendrix's era, hed have been considered to have talent, even though by todays standards, seeing someone shred is an every day thing. You cant be BORN with the prerequisites to play guitar, and play it well. Its the way your mind works that makes you a great musician, not what you are born with. You either work for it and get it, no matter how quickly, or you dont. Some people just pick it up easier than others, but its not because they are "talented', they are just smarter.
#36
There is no real talent in instruments. You just need to practice. A year before I took up guitar, at a parents evening, my music teacher todl my mu i'm not "musically talented", and now he think's i'm really good at guitar, especially for how long I've been playing. How am I like this? Practice. If you put in time and effort into a practice, the resutls are great. And on the plus hand, if you practice a lot, and join a really good band, chances are you'll get signed.
#37
I don't agree in the idea of natural talent, considering things we seem to classify as a field recognizing talent are man made articles - which is technically impossible to have any "natural" talent for.

There is a strong correlation between how hard and how efficient one practices to their success in learning an article. The real question of who has "natural" talent is who has the intellectual compacity to understand and recognize what they need to do to improve on an article as efficiently as possible. Someone who seems to have "natural" talent at say, playing the guitar, probably has a higher level of intellegence in the required area of the brain to practice efficiently. This also means that they will be just as successfull in articles which tap the same areas of the brain as the guitar, so they couldn't have a "natural" talent just for the guitar.

As far as musical success, well I believe it's a number of different factors including pure luck, not neccessarily who is better than who. A quote I ripped off from a Star Trek movie should summurize my theory on this "Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgements"
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#38
I made this thread before.

let's say people have talents.
but 99% of those talents have been created by experience.

Some 'talents' which can help guitar players...

Memory capacity , so they learn faster / can remember more when they're trying to learn.

' motoriek' dutch word for uhm , muscle control in your fingers...


but let's quit this thread.

You can have all the talent in the world. withour experience / effort your NOWHERE

You can be as talented as hell , but that doesn't mean the first time you pick up a guitar you know exactly where every note is , how the chord - combinations sound like , how to make solo's , how to copy some song on your guitar.

You might be able to read tablature quicker, get those chords quicker in your head then other people , but NOTHING comes there without practise & learning.


(Talented person , with gifted fingers and brain ...but that doesn't wanna learn will get owned by a dumbass pothead ...who's always drunk but practises everyday)
#39
Quote by Bazilisck311
I don't agree in the idea of natural talent, considering things we seem to classify as a field recognizing talent are man made articles - which is technically impossible to have any "natural" talent for.

There is a strong correlation between how hard and how efficient one practices to their success in learning an article. The real question of who has "natural" talent is who has the intellectual compacity to understand and recognize what they need to do to improve on an article as efficiently as possible. Someone who seems to have "natural" talent at say, playing the guitar, probably has a higher level of intellegence in the required area of the brain to practice efficiently. This also means that they will be just as successfull in articles which tap the same areas of the brain as the guitar, so they couldn't have a "natural" talent just for the guitar.

As far as musical success, well I believe it's a number of different factors including pure luck, not neccessarily who is better than who. A quote I ripped off from a Star Trek movie should summurize my theory on this "Don't try to be a great man, just be a man and let history make its own judgements"



...This is what I said
#40
Quote by insideac
...This is what I said


So we have a similar opinion, why the long face?
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