#1
I am writing a metal song. I got basically all of the rhythm done with it, but I kept putting off writing the the solo for it. So now I want to write the solo for it. The song is in A minor. I know I could use the A minor scale for the solo but I want it to sound a little different. So I was wondering if I could use the A Dorian or the A Phrygian since they are both A scales in the the key of A minor.

Thanks
#2
A Dorian and A Phrygian are NOT in the key of Am.

D Dorian and E Phrygian are. Good Luck with the solo.


edit: the root note of a scale does not tell you what key you are in. easycommon mistake when learning theory.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
Last edited by metal4all at Jan 15, 2007,
#3
There's nothing that says you can't use any god damn scale you want.

A friend of mine and I were jamming the other day, and he started playing a riff in D minor. It was basically a stock metal riff. I started soloing over it. After a bit, I started playing the most off key notes I could think of (at one point i went to C# minor!), and all it did was add to the metalness of it. I couldn't seem to play anything that sounded bad. But that may have just been my ears.

In summation: Try everything. Maybe even some diminished or whole tone scales.
#4
u could use any of the minor modes of A or you could just add passing notes (notes that aren't part of the scale that is being used for the solo)
#5
just play whatever sounds rightous and you can mess around around with it later. but let the first attempt be something that comes to you and just play from your soul brotha.

but adding some stuff from a blues scale in a metal solo always sounds kick ass. kinda like slash
#6
Quote by metal4all
edit: the root note of a scale does not tell you what key you are in. easycommon mistake when learning theory.
Actually, it does. What would you do for something that is entirely in A harmonic minor? You would have to write it in A minor and just deal with the accidentals. The same is true of standard modes of the major scale. A Dorian is completely different than G major.

Anyway, you'll probably want to use A Phrygian rather than Dorian. Dorian is a bit too happy and bluesy sounding to be an ideal metal scale. You should also look into A harmonic minor and perhaps even A Phrygian Dominsnt (1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7, A Bb C# D E F G). True, A Phrygian Dominant is technically a major scale, but it certainly isn't happy. If you base the solo on A Phrygian Dominant, you should get an unusual but still dark sound.
#7
A Dorian is not in the key of A. It is made with the A major scale but is not in the key of A.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#8
Quote by metal4all
A Dorian is not in the key of A. It is made with the A major scale but is not in the key of A.
You're right. It's not in A; it's in A minor. That's a HUGE difference.

I have no idea where you get that's it made with the A major scale: A D C D E F# G=/=A B C# D E F# G#.

If you meant to say, "A Dorian is not in the key of G, even though the scales contain the same notes," then you are correct.
#9
Dude I'm so fucking confused. I've learned all my theory off of UG. Could you please explain to me how A Dorian is not in the key of G (even though they both contain the same notes, just in a different order)?


edit: i shit you not i would have a better answer for "what is the meaning of life?" than an answer to my question right there.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#10
Because the root note determines the key. Period. So, same notes, but A Dorian is an A minor scale, because it is in the key of A with a minor 3rd.

You might remember it on the guitar easier if you remember that it's "the same as" (simply meaning enharmonic with) G, but they are not the same, in the way that B# and C are not the same.
#11
I'm so fucking lost it's not funny.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#12
Quote by metal4all
Dude I'm so fucking confused. I've learned all my theory off of UG. Could you please explain to me how A Dorian is not in the key of G (even though they both contain the same notes, just in a different order)?


edit: i shit you not i would have a better answer for "what is the meaning of life?" than the answer to my question right there.
The meaning of life...well I can give you the purpose. How's that? The purpose is to figure out why A Dorian is not in the key of G!

And HERE'S WHY!!!!!!!

It's root note is A and it is played over an A minor chord. Modes are determined by the underneath chords just as much as they are determined by the notes played. Of you play the notes of G Ionian over a G chord, your ear wants to go to G, maybe B and D since those are chord tones, but the strongest resolution is G. Play that scale over an A minor chord. Your ear shouldn't like resolving to G as much as it does A. Since the resolution is to A, the scale must be some kind of A scale. To determine the tonality, simply look at the third. Obviously, the third is minor, so the scale is some kind of A minor scale in the key of A minor.

Now, this is going to annoy you a whole lot, but it is important. Every time you change chords, you change modes, even if you don't think about it. Look at a typical minor progression Am F G Am. This is completely based on A Aeolian, but, when you solo over the F chord, you are playing F Lydian (let's assume you stick to the notes A B C D E F G). Whe you're over G, it's G mixolydian. Whenever a new chord come up, you can pick a new scale that makes sense over that chord. Look at the notes G Ab B C D Eb F. Those notes make no sense in a A minor progression, except over a G chord, especially if it's G7, the notes are G Phrygian Dominant and do make sense. This scale changing technque is common to jazz.

Quote by metal4all
I'm so fucking lost it's not funny.
Who taught you what and which lessons did you read?
#13
I think i get your explanation of how A dorian is an A minor scale of some sort but i dont get how it's in the key of Am.

key of Am: A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A
A Dorian: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G,A

sorry for being a pain in the ass but when you learn one thing for like 6 months straight then get told all of the sudden it's wrong it's a bit of a surprise. I seriously would have rather been told 5 mins ago that i was an adopted child rather than have to learn this stuff over again.


edit:
nobody has taught me shit (like formal lessons). i've just read a bunch the threads posted on here and a couple articles from other sites until i thought i got the hang of it.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#14
Quote by metal4all
I think i get your explanation of how A dorian is an A minor scale of some sort but i dont get how it's in the key of Am.

key of Am: A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A
A Dorian: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G,A
The root determines the letter name of the key and the third determines the tonality. That's really all that matters. It's clearly annoying that you have to write accidentals when you could easily *write it in G major and write no accidentals. It may be easier to think about this using a scale that does not fit into any key signature without accidentals. For instance, in what key would you write an A blues scale. Clearly, the Eb is not in the key, but the scale is clearly in A minor. It works the same for the modes of the major scale, it just happens that those scales use the same notes as other scales.

I don't know if I've said this already, but a mode is a type of scale. Actually, every scale is a mode, but we usually use the term to describe the modes of the major scale, melodic minor, and harmonic minor.

You say that this contradicts everything you've learned on here. I doubt that anyone said that A Dorian was in the key of G without getting corrected. I can see how you would interpret "A Dorian contains the same notes as G major" as them being the same key, but as you now (hopefully!) know, they are not

*One of my books actually does this, but it says something along the lines of "key signature denotes A Dorian."

Quote by metal4all
nobody has taught me shit (like formal lessons). i've just read a bunch the threads posted on here and a couple articles from other sites until i thought i got the hang of it.
I meant which UG users taught you this stuff and which lessons did you read, because that would give me a good idea of who to nominate for the "retard box" and which articles need to be looked over and checked for bad information.
#15
I guess i just assumed that since there are 7 modes to each major scale that those 7 modes are also in the key of that major scale.

I'm still a little confused, I think i'll just try to find a good book on music theory. Thank you a lot for telling me this. It would suck if i didn't find this out for a while later.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#16
Quote by metal4all
I guess i just assumed that since there are 7 modes to each major scale that those 7 modes are also in the key of that major scale.
Obviously, they all contain the same notes, but to consider something in the key of G when its root is not G is silly and wrong. That's really the only reason why A Dorian is not in the key of G.



Quote by metal4all
I'm still a little confused
About what? I'll at least try to help you out.


I'm out 'till morning (I define morning as when I get up, even if that happens to be noon), so I'll get back to you then.
#17
Get This Straight guys A Dorian is the 2nd Mode of the G major scale. A dorian is in the key of G. What determines the key of a scale is how many sharps or flats a scale has not the note you start on. One sharp (F#) = G Major. G major E Aeolian A Dorian F# Locrian G ionian ect. All in the key of G (one sharp).
Last edited by Zimwibwe at Jan 15, 2007,
#18
Quote by Zimwibwe
Get This Straight guys A Dorian is the 2nd Mode of the G major scale. A dorian is in the key of G. What determines the key of a scale is how many sharps or flats a scale has not the note you start on. One sharp (F#) = G Major. G major E Aeolian A Dorian F Locrian G ionian ect. All in the key of G (one sharp).
I'm pretty sure I spent a hour explaining why this is incorrect. Just think about something like A Harmonic Minor. You wouldn't write the key signature as one sharp, G#, as that would be ridiculous. Even though A harmonic minor contains some notes that are not found in A natural minor, it is still in the key of A minor.

By the way, it is F# Locrian, not just F.