#1
I don't know if this question has been asked, sorry if it did. Anyway, like the question said, I don't know anything about scales. Whenever I try to read through the lessons they have in this site, they say some musical "jargon" that I don't know and couldn't understand. So the question is, do you need these scales for a solo (like Master of Puppets and stuff like that) ?

Another question, is these scales in tab form or something that you could read from left to right and you train on them?
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Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#3
Ask your teach what a basic penatonic scale is. It will kick off from there.
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#7
You don't need to learn any scales to play solos...and don't need them for improvising either. They're just guidelines which makes it easier to improvise and playing in scales usually sounds good. It is recommended that you learn at least a couple though.
#8
Well, If you dont know scales, it doesnt mean that you cant solo. You can read tabs and work out the solos from there. Lots of famous musicians dont know theory or scales, they do it by ear. But scales will help you understand what exactly you are doing whenever you play a solo, Its not a bunch of random notes thrown together.
For improvisations and writing your own solos, you need to learn your scales and fretboard.

If you are self taught, dont be afraid to use the forum and ask about anything you dont understand from the lessons here. Everyone was a begginer some time. If not, ask your teacher to start giving you theory lessons.

#9
Quote by Burpbelly
well no scales means no improv...you could obviously still read from tabs with solos in em...

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/m/misc_scales/essential_scales_tab.htm

that might help...it has a load of scale tabs in C then you just transpose to get different keys

Hope that helped at all


um, so are you supposed to memorize parts or all of this tab? do you play it like a normal tab?

EDIT: or do you just pick out some of the notes and mix them up?
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
Last edited by ZeroChan at Jan 22, 2007,
#10
Quote by ZeroChan
um, so are you supposed to memorize parts or all of this tab? do you play it like a normal tab?

EDIT: or do you just pick out some of the notes and mix them up?


No, You memorize the box for that scale. It has the notes shape on the neck, and can be moved up and down the fretboard.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/scales/major_pentatonics_major_fun.html

Take a look.
#11
Quote by RealThing
No, You memorize the box for that scale. It has the notes shape on the neck, and can be moved up and down the fretboard.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/scales/major_pentatonics_major_fun.html

Take a look.


Still a lot of words I don't know but I kinda get it now a little bit...you work around the chords that you use on the verses for a solo or something like that?

EDIT: Wait, "the box for that scale"?
EDIT 2: This thing?


e|| - | - | o | - | R |
b|| - | - | o | - | o |
g|| - | o | - | o | - |
d|| - | o | - | - | R |
a|| - | o | - | - | o |
E|| - | - | R | - | o |


Hope that comes up right.
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
Last edited by ZeroChan at Jan 22, 2007,
#13
Agreed^^^^ Learn the 5 penta box patterns. You will use these through out the rest of your career as you will find out if you decide to pursue more knowledge in music theory. It's better to start off learning all 5 instead of just one if you have no knowledge of scales. A lot of beginners tend to focus on the main box pattern of the minor pentatonic and get stuck in taht box for quite some time. If you start off with learning all 5 patterns, not only will you have a scale you can use, but you will be able to improvise all over the neck of the guitar.

Once you have those memorized you will notice all of your other scales have these exact shapes inside of them, they just add extra notes to change the feel and sound of the scale.
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#14
So I memorize the 5 patterns...then what now? Btw, what's the easiest scale to learn? the E minor Pentatonic like the other dude said?
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#15
LEARN THE MODES TO!!!!! lol, seems like everyone always leaves them out.

these are the modes: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrain. there are also different variations of those too. google them. learn them. your soloing/improv skills will greatly improve.
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#16
I don't think it's clear enough for me. like this,
A Pentatonic minor Pattern 1 (A C D E G)

A C D E G A C D E G A C
1 4 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 4 1 4
-------------------------------5--8---------------
-------------------------5--8---------------------
-------------------5--7---------------------------
-------------5--7---------------------------------
-------5--7---------------------------------------
-5--8---------------------------------------------


What am I supposed to do with this exactly? I'm actually REALLY new about this scales.
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#17
your supposed to play those notes. do you know how to read tabs?
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"blacker than the blackest black...times infinity."

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#18
Quote by 4# 5b (Tritone)
your supposed to play those notes. do you know how to read tabs?


I know how to read tabs. So I play them for practice or what?

EDIT: Can someone explain it to me more how this tab makes your solos better?
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#19
play it for practice and use it in solos. this pattern is used a lot by many guitarists. they may change it up, for example starting in the middle, at the top, skipping notes, ect...

just mess around with it, find something that sounds good and use it
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"blacker than the blackest black...times infinity."

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#20
Quote by Burpbelly
well no scales means no improv...you could obviously still read from tabs with solos in em...


That's highly untrue. I barely know any standard scales and I can improvise quite well. Of course, I can play scales, but it's a scale I create with my ear, not what I find in a book.
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#21
Oh I see now. But how would you make a solo and the verse like sound the same? I don't know how to explain this but you know songs has chords, does a solo have the same chord pattern too?
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Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#22
A song will usually have one dominant chord - when that's the case you can happily solo over that chord all the way through.
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#23
how do you know what's the dominant one? Is the the chord that's mostly used throughout the song?
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#24
Quote by ZeroChan
I know how to read tabs. So I play them for practice or what?

EDIT: Can someone explain it to me more how this tab makes your solos better?


You learn this scale and many others mix them up and make solos. IMPROVISING. Try to learn to play them fast.
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#25
how do you know what's the dominant one? Is the the chord that's mostly used throughout the song?


It's often the first chord in the song - the more you play and listen to stuff the more you develop an ear for picking out that kind of thing. If you learn the pentatonic scale that'll give you a very basic platform to improvise from. Remember that although scales are usually presented as box patterns they actually exist all over the neck, as long as you play the correct notes it doesn't matter which strings you play them on. Also try not to limit yourself to the basic pattern - whilst you'll originally learn it in one position the pattern itself repeats until you run out of frets.

If you can download yourself a simple blues backing you'll find that you can improvise easily over the chord progression using the pentatonic scale of the key its in. For example, if you have a blues backing in G, then you can solo using G pentatonic.


What you really need to do is familiarise yourself with the major scale - the major scale is the starting point for pretty much all the scales you're likely to use, and its also the key to understanding how to form chords.
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#26
Major Pentatonic Scale, got it. A lot of information to absorb in one day, but you guys have been helpful. Thanks for all the feedback. Wish me luck on memorizing these things. Any last advice before I do this?
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
#29
This one too - again, kind of cheesy, but it's a good introduction to some of the basic building blocks that people use when soloing

http://www.fenderplayersclub.com/woodshed/video_lessons/v_quicktime/hudson_videos/blues_solo3.mov
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#30
ok thanks for the info. That Am Pentatonic sounds easy and cool enough for me.
Gear
Fender Hotrod Deville 2x12
Fender MIM Strat | Epi Dot 335
Fulltone '69 mkii | Boss OD-1
'95 RAT2 | '78 IC Big Muff | DL4
Last edited by ZeroChan at Jan 22, 2007,
#31
Quote by Smokey Amp
That's highly untrue. I barely know any standard scales and I can improvise quite well. Of course, I can play scales, but it's a scale I create with my ear, not what I find in a book.

I am with you one this one, my soloing pattern is any of these notes

|-------------------------------------------------------------12--13--15|
|-------------------------------------------------12--13--15------------|
|-------------------------------------12--14--15------------------------|
|-------------------------12--13--14------------------------------------|
|-------------12--13--14------------------------------------------------|
|-12--13--15------------------------------------------------------------|

Unless you can find a scale like that then I really don't follow scales. And PS I do know my basic scales.
#33
While you can learn solos from tab, you should really learn some scales and theory. While several people have correctly pointed out that you can improvise by ear, it's not hard to learn a few scales and it will make your life about a million times easier.
Quote by The Ted
Unless you can find a scale like that then I really don't follow scales. And PS I do know my basic scales.

My first thought was admittedly "that looks like something that John Petrucci would play at about 4 million BPM", but I ran it through a scale finder out of curiosity - if you take out the D#, viola, C Be-Bop scale. I didn't actually know that the Be-Bop scale existed, but I suppose you learn something new every day. Alternately, it's a garden variety C major scale a few positions up with a couple of chromatic passing tones. Either way, your special friend now has a name.
Last edited by scrilly at Jan 23, 2007,
#34
I've been too lazy to learn any scales lately.. I usually do improvising by ear to create a solo or riff.

I've been wanting to learn some different scales like hawaiian G scale.. There's an A# in the scale and it just doesnt sound right to me when played over my chord progression. Do I have to play the A# over a specific chord?
#35
I am with you one this one, my soloing pattern is any of these notes


Believe what you want, but you can't improvise properly without knowing scales unless you happen to have excellent ears and fantastic instincts. Your "scale" would probably work over a power chord pattern in E (and maybe C#m), but that's about it - it's fine if you're just mucking around unaccompanied, but if you went into a jam session with that pattern you'd be sunk.

I don't have a soloing "pattern" - I use the whole neck, mapped out by where the roots lie on the bottom 3 strings. Don't get me wrong, I'm not so good that I can name every note and tell you what it sounds like, but I've got a pretty good idea of where I can and can't play over a particular progression. If I get it wrong I just pretend i'm playing jazz...
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Last edited by steven seagull at Jan 23, 2007,
#36
Quote by sunshineshankar
I've been too lazy to learn any scales lately.. I usually do improvising by ear to create a solo or riff.

I've been wanting to learn some different scales like hawaiian G scale.. There's an A# in the scale and it just doesnt sound right to me when played over my chord progression. Do I have to play the A# over a specific chord?

Hard to say without knowing what "my chord progression" contains, so let's use general terms. First off, calling it a "Hawaiian scale" seems a bit wanky unless you're playing a ukelele, since my trusty scale website tells me that the notes are the same as the melodic minor scale - a natural minor scale with the sixth and the seventh degrees raised by half a step. Why a melodic minor scale played on a ukelele produces nice happy Hawaiian music is a mystery for the ages.

I don't know what style you play, but the melodic minor scale is more common in jazz than pretty much any other style I can think of. If it sounds wrong, your chord progression and your scale don't match up - the A# (I would write Bb because of the scale) is the minor third, which is common to all diatonic and pentatonic minor scales. If it's just the Bb that sounds wrong to you, make sure that your chord progression is based on a minor scale and not a major one - the melodic minor is so close to the major scale (except for that vital minor third) that if your progression is in G major the scale will sound good except for the Bb/A#, which will sound like shit. If you can't be bothered changing your progression, raise the A#/Bb a semitone to a major third (B) and your exotic Hawaiian scale has become a boring-as-all-hell yet harmonically coherent G major scale.

Oh, and just a note - typically the melodic minor scale isn't used when you're descending - you might want to try flatting the seventh to form a harmonic minor scale, or both the sixth and the seventh to get a natural minor scale.
Last edited by scrilly at Jan 23, 2007,