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#1
Me again..

I was settled on buying a 2nd handed peavey 5150 or XXX, but then my local guitar technician told me that he had to repair a crazy amount of peaveys. He told me that a lot of them broke down here in Europe because of the difference in voltage and hertz. While the voltage is adjusted to the European voltage, the hertz isn't. I've also heard that the xxx are quite sterile and I've decided I'd like versatility over a high gain one trick pony.

So..I'm back to zero.

I'd like to get some suggestions for amps. The local dealers don't carry much tube amps (DSL 2000 and some low wattage clean tubes) so I really need to get some advice here. I'll probably buy the amp 2nd handed, but I need to know which ones to look out for (I can't just drive all the way to every amp I want to try).

I'm in a metalcore band (although I wouldn't define our sound as metalcore..I dislike metalcore anyway). Anyway, I'd like to be able to nail some extreme metal tones, early metallica, normal rock, cleans, EVH-like sounds, blues and Vai-ish sounds (I've heard that it's hard to recreate Vai's sound, but I'd like a nice tone to play lead with and shred like in that crossroads movie ). I play more metal than clean, so I guess the full and nice high gain sounds are more important than cleans. I'd like to be able to switch from clean to high gain with a food switch tho (this could open up some nice possibilities for songs). I don't like a completly scooped mid sound if that matters. I'm not sure if I want a dark or bright sound (mainly because I haven't heard a real dark amp next to a bright one before). I'll admid I don't really know that much about tone yet..

So basicly I'd like versatility and definitly a nice agressive sound. If an OD is needed I guess I can get one too, but it'll have to fit my budget. I have around 1400 euros, but I'd like to spend as little as possible (duh). The peavey amps I was looking at had combos for 600 euro, which left me with enough money to buy a new guitar in due time (my squire isn't THAT great >_> and I'd love to have a floyd rose and better pickups). Head and cab are prefered if they fit my budget (I've heard combos tend to rattle and don't have a nice sound compared to cabs, there's also the difference in the height the sound comes from). Oh, and I'd like 50W-100W, that should be enough for band practise and small gigs. I'll be able to crank 50W more quickly than 100W too, won't I?


Amps I'm thinking about:

JCM 900
ENGL fireball (although this one is quite expensive and it sounds pretty sterile in this clip imo (or did he just scoop al the mids? ) --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIsfTJkgQVY
I've heard good things about Laney
and orange amps too. The rocker seems versatile, but I can only get my hands on the 30W combo. I'm not sure if it can go heavy enough either.

Can someone tell me more about these amps or maybe suggest others?

Also, can someone explain me what more/less head room does?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
Last edited by Kailoq at Jan 24, 2007,
#2
First of all i dont know much about needing to repair second hand amps but most second hand amps are usually pretty sturdy.

as for your choices, the JCM 900s are great amps and are worth every penny however you should definetly try out the DSLs because they will have slightly more gain. on top of that when the new JVMs take off they will be one hell of alot cheeper. though you will need an OD to get metal/metalcore tones. Matt Heafy from trivium uses a DSL with a tubescreamer

as for the ENGL i agree that it does sound rather sterile in that clip. and if you look at the second post it gives you the settings and the mids are heavily scooped. however it could just be the microphone on the camera that is causing it, because they are not designed for recording an amp. i have heard that they are really amasing amps. have a look at the ultimate clip thread and see if there are some better clips there.

the orange amps are good but they probably wont be able to handle metal/metalcore very well.

the difference between 50w and 100 watts is that you have more headroom. the volume difference isnt much. headroom is the gap between having a pure clean sound from your poweramp valves and when they start to breakup and OD. 50 watts will be easier to crank and get a better tone but it wont be much quieter
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#4
The Engl is much better in person. An excellent amp. The Laneys are great too, I know the GH50L is an excellent sounding amp in the vein of a JCM800. You might want to try the Iommi sig model though. If you go with a Marshall I'd suggest either the JCM900 SL-X or the TSL. Both have really nice modern metal tones.
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#5
engl blackmore
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
Quote by Zimwibwe
Ashdown Fallen Angel. just about the best tube amp you could buy!!!


no. just no.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#7
Quote by Dave_Mc
engl blackmore


What does it sound like compared to the fireball? Is it more versatile, better this or that?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#8
^ more versatile, not just as much gain (but still much more gain than most other amps), more rounded tone, basically. the fireball is basically fender-clean or extremely heavy. the blackmore is more like engl's take on a marshall, but which can still get heavy tones too. EDIT: i'd say the fireball has slightly better cleans.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ more versatile, not just as much gain (but still much more gain than most other amps), more rounded tone, basically. the fireball is basically fender-clean or extremely heavy. the blackmore is more like engl's take on a marshall, but which can still get heavy tones too. EDIT: i'd say the fireball has slightly better cleans.


Hmm...it sounds nice, 2nd handed price is around 850-1K over here me thinks. It's 100W though, so it'll be hard to crank, but I'm not even sure if that's needed for an amp like this. Maybe it'll sound bad with my squire though...I could get a cheaper amp too and invest a bit in a guitar too.

Any suggestions for cabs? I've heard marshall 1960 "X" were good, but I can't remember if it was A or whatever..
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#10
^ you don't need to crank engls to get them to sound good, but they do sound better cranked. 60w will still be loud though. I mean, if 100 watts cranked is too loud, odds are 60 is too loud too.

for the cabs, it really depends how much you have. in the EU, Laney, Marshall, Framus are all pretty good value.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
Dave, I have just returned from Limerick. From playing the Fireball through an ENGL V60s cab. I had it on 10. O.O and it wasn't THAT Loud. But I must say, I have overwhelming levels of awesomeness surging through my veins from playing it. I bought it, cab arriving soon. and Pics promised
#12
^ \m/



EDIT: my savage SE is loud as hell, but to be fair it's probably not designed to be cranked in a 12' by 10' room. o_O
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
I've got some more questions if you don't mind:

Will the Blackmore have enough gain by it's own for heavy stuff? Or do I need a pedal?

Is it in the same class as a jcm 900 and peavey XXX? Because if the difference isn't that big I might as well go for one of those 2 because they're a fair bit cheaper (400-800€ difference)
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#14
Quote by Tarzan_man
Dave, I have just returned from Limerick. From playing the Fireball through an ENGL V60s cab. I had it on 10. O.O and it wasn't THAT Loud. But I must say, I have overwhelming levels of awesomeness surging through my veins from playing it. I bought it, cab arriving soon. and Pics promised

what shop stocks them their?
#15
Peavey Windsor is pretty nice. Awesome hotrodded marshall tone with slightly less mids. Can get pretty dark too with the resonance knob turned up.

Engls ****ing rule. I love the only ones i've played (screamer).
Dave seems to be awesomely knowledged in them too take his advice
#16
Have at look at Hughes and Kettner as well as ENGL. H&K are German, so should be pretty easy to get hold of in Belgium. Again Engl are German, so you should be able to get hold of them easily too. I would agree with the Engl Blackmore and maybe take a look at the H&K Switchblade if it's within your budget.
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#17
Quote by False_God
what shop stocks them their?


None, I bought second hand. The only place that stocks them in Ireland are Instrumental along the queys in Dublin? Only place I know of anyways.
#18
Quote by Kailoq
I've got some more questions if you don't mind:

Will the Blackmore have enough gain by it's own for heavy stuff? Or do I need a pedal?

Is it in the same class as a jcm 900 and peavey XXX? Because if the difference isn't that big I might as well go for one of those 2 because they're a fair bit cheaper (400-800€ difference)


I thought it had plenty of gain on its own for pretty much anything. Unfortunately, "enough gain" is pretty much a personal preference type of thing, so I can't categorically say it'll have enough gain for you, I can only say it had enough gain for me.

I haven't tried either the xxx or the 900, unfortunately, so i can't compare.

Quote by Tarzan_man
None, I bought second hand. The only place that stocks them in Ireland are Instrumental along the queys in Dublin? Only place I know of anyways.


the Belfast Guitar Emporium in, er, Belfast stocks Engl too, but it's closing down. Maybe. There are conflicting reports of what's going on there.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc
I thought it had plenty of gain on its own for pretty much anything. Unfortunately, "enough gain" is pretty much a personal preference type of thing, so I can't categorically say it'll have enough gain for you, I can only say it had enough gain for me.

I haven't tried either the xxx or the 900, unfortunately, so i can't compare.


Have you tried a jcm 2000? Some people say it has enough gain on it's own, but when I tried it I thought it had barely enough gain for early metallica stuff. I didn't get to crank it though.
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#20
^ yeah, i'd say the jcm 2000 probably has enough gain on its own. I didn't think that the first few times I tried it though, my opinions have changed unfortunately.

you really need to try them if at all possible.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Quote by Dave_Mc
I thought it had plenty of gain on its own for pretty much anything. Unfortunately, "enough gain" is pretty much a personal preference type of thing, so I can't categorically say it'll have enough gain for you, I can only say it had enough gain for me.

I haven't tried either the xxx or the 900, unfortunately, so i can't compare.


the Belfast Guitar Emporium in, er, Belfast stocks Engl too, but it's closing down. Maybe. There are conflicting reports of what's going on there.


pffft, You know Belfast isn't really in Ireland. Its N.I.
Intrumental is one of the only places I know what has some high-end gear. Bearing in mind I don't know many places.
Also False_God, You Irish or wha?
#22
^ heh, it's semi-ireland. for getting to try stuff, you can get to it easier from ireland than to, say, mexico.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
True dat

Sadly GAK still haven't shipped my cab. The Fireball is sitting across from me begging to be cranked. I've cleaned it several times and admired my manly physhic in the mirror finish and taken bucketloads of pictures...of both.

EDIT: Also to the thread starter, Make sure you get a quality cab aswell. I played my fireball through the guys laney cab and then his buddies ENGL cab. The ENGL cab sounded phenominally better. Can't wait for the V30s to come.
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ yeah, i'd say the jcm 2000 probably has enough gain on its own. I didn't think that the first few times I tried it though, my opinions have changed unfortunately.

you really need to try them if at all possible.


That's the problem, the local dealers don't carry these >_>

Does the fireball have more gain? Anything else I should know about it?

*ponders over the different amps*
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#25
Check out the peavey JSX then, its got the high gain modeled after the XXX except the clean setting on this amp is amazing, its nice and sparkly, 100 times better than the 6505 or the XXX. The JSX is Satch's signature amp so it has a fluid lead tone, and is incredibly versitile. Its 120W of Tube, but it sounds suprisingly good at very low volumes, I"ve never played a tube amp that sounded this good on such a low volume with a high gain setting. All Im saying it check it out, thats my two cents.
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#26
Quote by Tarzan_man
None, I bought second hand. The only place that stocks them in Ireland are Instrumental along the queys in Dublin? Only place I know of anyways.

I think I know who you might have bought it off! I talk to him on www.boards.ie...
800euro he was asking me thinks?
But yeah Instrumental is cool, then theirs another place that stocks Mesa's.. Nice show..lol...
#27
RustinPeace is his Username. After all the bothering in going down to him and buying it I never knew his real name But it's wasn't Karl Hungus, I know he has a Fireball too and a J Custom. Where has these Mesas? There are only Intrumental in Dublin and a Place in Waterford that I've ever seen high-end amps in.
#28
Quote by Kailoq
That's the problem, the local dealers don't carry these >_>

Does the fireball have more gain? Anything else I should know about it?

*ponders over the different amps*


the fireball has more gain than the blackmore, but is a lot less versatile- it's basically clean, or extremely distorted. the blackmore has clean (not just as nice as the FB, but more than usable), crunch (blues or classic rock), heavier crunch (80's), and modern distortion.

The blackmore also sounds less compressed, I actually preferred its high gain tone than the fireball's. It depends what you're after, of course.

Quote by Tarzan_man
EDIT: Also to the thread starter, Make sure you get a quality cab aswell. I played my fireball through the guys laney cab and then his buddies ENGL cab. The ENGL cab sounded phenominally better. Can't wait for the V30s to come.


yep, v30's work extremely well with engls.

Quote by Tensorspencer
Check out the peavey JSX then, its got the high gain modeled after the XXX except the clean setting on this amp is amazing, its nice and sparkly, 100 times better than the 6505 or the XXX. The JSX is Satch's signature amp so it has a fluid lead tone, and is incredibly versitile. Its 120W of Tube, but it sounds suprisingly good at very low volumes, I"ve never played a tube amp that sounded this good on such a low volume with a high gain setting. All Im saying it check it out, thats my two cents.


IMO, engls work better at low volumes than the jsx. It's all preference, though.




Quote by Tarzan_man
RustinPeace is his Username. After all the bothering in going down to him and buying it I never knew his real name But it's wasn't Karl Hungus, I know he has a Fireball too and a J Custom. Where has these Mesas? There are only Intrumental in Dublin and a Place in Waterford that I've ever seen high-end amps in.


musician inc.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
the fireball has more gain than the blackmore, but is a lot less versatile- it's basically clean, or extremely distorted. the blackmore has clean (not just as nice as the FB, but more than usable), crunch (blues or classic rock), heavier crunch (80's), and modern distortion.

The blackmore also sounds less compressed, I actually preferred its high gain tone than the fireball's. It depends what you're after, of course.


Guess I'll need to try them out (which unfortunaly will be hard to impossible ) I'll need to compare the gain and decide if the sound and versatality of the engls is worth more money than the cheaper jcm 900.

Also, the blackmore soundclips on this site sound very nice, and pretty high gain too. Is this the real sound or did they tinker with it (extreme gain pick ups or an OD or something like that)?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#30
Derek from rocksolidamps usually doesn't EQ and throw FX on his recorded stuff that much. Most of the stuff is close miced with a 57 if I recall.
#31
I haven't listened to all of them, but yeah, those sound pretty close- the blackmore is a little less compressed, you can kind of hear that in the recording (granted, it's easier to hear it if you've already tried it, unfortunately). Also, bear in mind they're using EMG's in at least some of those clips- they're hot pickups.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
Hmmm...

If I had the money for both hot pickups and the blackmore I'd be settled..

*sighs*

I hate decisions.

About the cabs, are the engls known to sound bad through 1960's (like the laney cab someone talked about earlier)?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#33
^ i'm not fussed on engls through marshall cabs, but my problem is, I'm not sure exactly which marshall cabs I've tried them through- they might be fine through the marshall with vintage 30's.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
^ i'd say a blackmore should be able to get up to that, definitely if you crank it a bit. fireball might be a slightly better bet, but unless you need that bad horsie sound all the time, I'd still go blackmore, because of the increased versatility, IMO.

I haven't tried a 900, unfortunately.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ i'd say a blackmore should be able to get up to that, definitely if you crank it a bit. fireball might be a slightly better bet, but unless you need that bad horsie sound all the time, I'd still go blackmore, because of the increased versatility, IMO.

I haven't tried a 900, unfortunately.


Well, I don't need it ALL the time, but I do love it, so I'll use it 'a lot'.

I guess the main issue now is the price..I went up from a 600€ combo to 1400+ for that blackmore..and I'll probably need a noise gate too >_>

Hopefully last question, are there any other amps I really need to check out before I choose between the jcm and engl?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#38
^^ yeah, you really need to check out everything you can get your hands on, unfortunately.

I know a shop in dublin had a second-hand soldano avenger for about 1300 euro... that was a very nice amp too.

It's kind of hard for me to advise, because I don't know what you can get to try, and I'm not too well up on euro pricing either. I guess laney and peavey are worth a look too.

EDIT: also, it's hard to advise, because I liked the blackmore's high gain tone more than the fireball- even though the fireball is more "metal". It's too much personal preference, unfortunately.

For every guy on HC or other similar forums who says "the powerball/fireball is amazing for metal", there's another who says "it's too compressed, the blackmore is better".

Unfortunately.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
I'll poke around and try as many as possible, unfortunatly most shops around here don't carry that much..and I'd need my parents to drive to try out 2nd handed amps.

My parents are starting to get doubts about me buying a used amplifier, they don't like the fact that I'm spending this much money on something without garantee and all that. But I've read everywhere that 2nd handed is the way to go (transistor amps around this price are overpriced and not very good and the cheapest tube amps usually only have a clean channel). Is there anyone thing that might comfort them? How likely are tube amps to break, what kind of repairs can be needed etc.

I know this is a broad question, but any help is appreciated!
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#40
^ i'm not sure, lol. I prefer new too! Plenty of guys buy second hand, though.

It really depends which you prefer. I'd have thought you could get a blackmore new for around 1400 euro, but that is at the upper end of your budget, and you'd need a cab as well.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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