Okay, so, I basically know absolutely no theory... But my guitar teacher is sortive teaching me some(sortive..). I'm learning the different modes right now(finally), you know, like Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, and whatever comes after(he hasn't taught me, and I don't know)... And he gave me the "formula" for the first three.. Like, Ionian is 1-2-3-4-5-6-7, Dorian is 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7, and Phrygian is 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7... And my assignment is to write out the Phrygian mode using the Dorian and the formula... But looking at it, the flatted 2nd is the same as the first, and there's more like that..

So I was just wondering if what he told me was right, or if I'm just a total idiot or what...

Sorry for that just being one huge paragraph.
no idea, give us an example

Bodacious Bob

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Quote by tpot06
Bodacious bob wins all.
The flatted 2 isn't a 1. If 1 is A, the flatted 2 is a Bb. And your 'Dorian' formula looks like a minor scale, which is a different one (Aeolian).
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Last edited by CFTim at Jan 29, 2007,
Not the minor 2nd isn't the same as the root. A major second is a whole step away from the root, so the minor 2nd is a half step away.
Quote by Der Bomber
You have that gear and you are a theory noob?

So what if he does? Honestly.

TS I don't quite understand what our question is but you have those formulas correct. They are in terms of the major scale (Ionian mode).
^it's like having a 50 mm f#cking hand cannon and having no idea how to aim and shoot the d@mn thing, thats so what if he does.
Quote by CFTim
The flatted 2 isn't a 1. If 1 is A, the flatted 2 is a Bb. And your 'Dorian' formula looks like a minor scale, which is a different one (Aeolian).

His Dorian formula is fine as 1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - b7, the Aeolian mode has a minor sixth and would be 1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7.

Threadstarter - what your teacher has given you is absolutely right, and you're not an idiot - a lot people have trouble working out scales with formulas relating to the major scale.

The first thing you want to do is familiarize yourself with the major scale formula, the Ionian formula in your post: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7. This the formula that all other formulas relate to. I'll write out the C major scale (C Ionian mode) with its formula, and show you how the others relate.

``````
[U]C Ionian:      C - D - E - F - G - A - B[/U]
Scale Formula: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
``````

The important thing to note here is that each number of the scale formula is assigned to a specific note. Number 2 is an E note, 5 is a G note and so forth. So if you have a formula in C that says b2 - the note must be written as Eb, not D#. The same way if said b5, you'd write that as Gb, not F# - this is why each number is assigned to a letter in the Ionian formula, so that each note specificies an interval in the scale.

The scale formulas for Dorian and Phrygian that your teacher gave you both relate to this formula, so you'll use the Ionian formula and scale to figure out your modes.

If you take the Phrygian formula, and compare it to the Ionian mode and its formula you can simply compare the two different scale formulas with the notes in the C Ionian mode to get the notes for your C Phrygian mode.

``````
[B]Phrygian Formula: 1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7.[/B]

1 - The same as the major scale: [b]C[/b].
b2 - The second note of the major scale is lowered half a step: [b]Db[/b].
b3: The third note of the major scale is lowered half a step: [b]Eb[/b].
4: The same as the major scale: [b]F[/b].
5: The same as the major scale: [B]G[/B].
b6: The sixth note of the major scale is lowered half a step: [B]Ab[/B].
b7: The seventh note of the major scale is lowered half a step: [B]Bb[/B].

So what we get is..

C Major: C - D - E - F - G - A - B

Phrygian: 1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7

[B]C Phrygian: C - Db - Eb - F - G - Ab - Bb[/B]
``````

Can you see how the formula relates to the Ionian formula you were given? If you don't understand or if I've confused you further, you know the drill.

^^^^^anyway, let me help you out a bit here. get rid of the numbers thing it is going to confuse you. Think of the major scale, C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C, the pattern is whole step-whole step-half step-whole- whole- whole- half or (w-w-h-w-w-w-h) if the first pattern is dorian, which i can't remember the dorian mode of C is D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D or w-h-w-w-w-h-w. you start with the next note to build the next mode. until you have all the modes. The intervallic relationship within the scale always remain the same. So if you know which mode starts with the second scale degree and you have the order for the rest of the modes building the rest of the modes off the C major(or any scale for that matter is really very simple)
Quote by z4twenny
^it's like having a 50 mm f#cking hand cannon and having no idea how to aim and shoot the d@mn thing, thats so what if he does.

The difference being that he's not going to injure anyone with guitar gear because he doesn't know theory?

It's just pathetic how much people think there should be a correlation between gear and ability. If someone can and wants to afford nice gear, then they should buy it, regardless of skill. Thinking otherwise is just plain jealousy.
Ugh, sorry ,I've been trying to post something for a 20 minutes, but my internet keeps freezing.. So I'm just gonna try in the quick reply box... Sorry if it's sloppy...

Quote by BodaciousBob
no idea, give us an example

Okay, I'll try...

``````
|--------------------------------2-3-5|
|----------------------------3-5------|
|--------------------2-(4)-5----------|
|-------------2-4-5-------------------|
|----(2)-3-5--------------------------|
|3-5----------------------------------|
( )= root note
``````

I just copied the Dorian pattern and changed the root notes... So when I flat the 2nd, the C on the A string will go to a B, which is the first.. Right?

I phail at life... and theory.. =( lol

And yeah, I realize I don't deserve my PRS, but hey.. It's not the gear that makes the guitarist anyway... Nor does every guitarist have theory oozing from every orifice.

I appreciate the try for help.. But... It didn't really help any.. =/ lol
You deserve the gear you own, by definition

don't let anyone tell you different.
The first one that posts even the slightest word on his gear (even in positive ways) gets an instant ban. I've already warned a guy for it and this is NOT the place to discuss his gear. He asks help with theory, so stfu if you don't give that.
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