#1
SillyRabbit, this is not just because of you.

Fellow UGers (especially MT mods), it has come to my attention that many people voice their opinions regarding speed, technical proficiency, and general knowledge of the guitar and theory. Generally these opinions are along the lines of "I'm fine just playing so slow stuff that I feel. It's not about speed, dudes."

Obviously, this is flawed thinking, especially on a forum dedicated to teaching people how to play the guitar, so I think we should have some kind of article or sticky that explains why theory and technique are important. Also, I would put in some kind of clause that anti-technique/theory threads will simply be deleted, but that's probably me just being a jackass with a headache.

Anyway, this is just a thought. You guys can decide how important this actually is. Delete this thread if you want; I don't want to cause a ruckus.
#2
Theory is important i totally agree but since its a musician forum, why cant we voice our oppinions? those that dont want to hear it. can go to another thread or something. I kinda want a forum that i can voice my oppinions on stuff and not have to worry about other things. i love this forum im not saying i dont but im sure you get the picture.
#3
It annoys me too when people always say, "Shredding is just wanking, I play slowly because it has more feel than playing fast!" There are people who also say that their playing will be too mechanical when they learn music theory. I disagree with these statements pretty much, and I agree with your idea.

*shrug*

Everyone has their own opinion, and I do believe that just because you are technically profecient, that you are not a good guitarist/bassist, but there is a difference between being a good musician and being a good guitarist/bassist.

(I'm not trying to start an argument, so I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm getting somewhere).
Last edited by kirbyrocknroll at Feb 2, 2007,
#4
Hey, I just read silly's thread and your responses, but I don't really understand what you're getting at. Do you think his opinion is valid? (I'm guessing this is a total yes)

So you just don't think anyone should advocate a (purposeful) lack of technical ability?

You obviously only have the best interests of MT in mind; I'm just a touch compfused. Enlighten the misinformed?
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#5
Quote by iain4444
Hey, I just read silly's thread and your responses, but I don't really understand what you're getting at. Do you think his opinion is valid? (I'm guessing this is a total yes)

So you just don't think anyone should advocate a (purposeful) lack of technical ability?

You obviously only have the best interests of MT in mind; I'm just a touch compfused. Enlighten the misinformed?

Who me or him, im not going to say im right and hes wrong. cause im not like and i dotn want any un needed contreversy. I probally spelt that wrong. anyways. Im also confused.
#6
Quote by iain4444
Enlighten the misinformed?
There's been a long of whining about not wanting to learn music theory because it make your playing not from the heart ( It's just coincidence that their favorite songs are essentially scalar?) and that speed is a useless tool for people with small johnsons. I think we need some kind of informative thread that explains why these statements are false, essentially saying that "you don't want to be limited by your lack of that knowledge the one time you need it."
#7
EDIT** sorry I misread ur last post. anyways. I love theory it helps me out but lol nvm i just dont even know why we argued about this. I just wanted to see if anyone else had the same oppinion i did or has had the same happen to them. thats all. anyways. All hail Guitar


ahha dude. Theory is not all speed. lol iv learn plenty of theory on my own. I Play mostly all my made up stuff. and no im not whining so i just dotn get why youre making it sound like i am..a hhahah w.e i know in myself that Im fine the way i am, and my oppinions wont change.
Last edited by SillyRabbit at Feb 2, 2007,
#8
Quote by bangoodcharlote
There's been a long of whining about not wanting to learn music theory because it make your playing not from the heart ( It's just coincidence that their favorite songs are essentially scalar?) and that speed is a useless tool for people with small johnsons. I think we need some kind of informative thread that explains why these statements are false, essentially saying that "you don't want to be limited by your lack of that knowledge the one time you need it."


Alright! I totally agree with you then

Theory (along with any guitar technique you can name) is just another tool that can be used to improve your playing. Kudos to you
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#9
I think BGC means that MT is a place for learning to play guitar, and it should be adressed that being able to be technically proficient (somewhat) on your instrument is a part of learning to play guitar, and it is kind of misleading when people say "Play slow, man - play with feel.
#10
I agree with the sticky or article or whatever, but deleting the threads made about "Technique vs Feel" on sight seems a bit like fascist censorship. As long as they have good arguments and express a clear, thought-out oppinion I have no problem with these threads. The sticky is a great idea however, and could reduce the frequency of these threads.
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#11
im not saying to play slow. I just dont LIKE when people play fast and think their the shit cuz their music doesn;t even go together like bread and butter and yours does and ur not going ultra fast. uggggggggg
#12
Quote by Ænimus Prime
As long as they have good arguments and express a clear, thought-out oppinion I have no problem with these threads.
I agree, except there is no logical argument against learning how to play the guitar proficiently. It is absolutely inane NOT to.

Technique vs. Feel threads lead to nowhere but Spamburgh and should be deleted. Obviously, sound is all that matters in the end and technique can be part of feel anyway.
#13
just another thought, i thought about making a thread like this but since its done heres a suggestion of mine, ocassionally i check out musician talk, and i constantly see threads, saying things like, what chords work in this key, what key is it in, what scales does this song use/should i use, ect. Anyway i was thinking you could make an only thread specialized for this, i think it would be better then having a bunch of multiple threads on those topics
#14
Quote by khalil1220
just another thought, i thought about making a thread like this but since its done heres a suggestion of mine, ocassionally i check out musician talk, and i constantly see threads, saying things like, what chords work in this key, what key is it in, what scales does this song use/should i use, ect. Anyway i was thinking you could make an only thread specialized for this, i think it would be better then having a bunch of multiple threads on those topics
Many of those questions are covered in the MT sticky.
#15
Damn, MT seems to have some good discussions going on tonight!

Good idea though. People always tell me that they play with feel and don't need the notes and theory. To me, thats pretty much guess and test. Really, you can learn theory and "play & feel" the notes, only this time, you know exactly what you're doing (i.e. what intervals, arpeggios, etc...).
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#16
Quote by bluesrocker101
People always tell me that they play with feel and don't need the notes and theory.
I see that as virtually the same as a doctor performing heart surgery by poking around with a knife and hoping that he does that he's supposed to.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Feb 3, 2007,
#17
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I see that as virtually the same as a doctor performing heart surgery by poking around with a knife and haping that he does that he's supposed to.



thats so true. I hope a sticky of this will come soon.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#19
Quote by moup
A lot of people that say play with feel instead of speed are people who can't play with speed. This is an unbiased opinion because I ain't really that fast myself.

Also the people who don't want to learn music theory are just lazy bums, it's not hard and if anything would help you express yourself more.

thats not true. u can feel any music. I love all music. Speed is indeed fun. But only in bursts. Who wants a whole song insanely fast? Maybe lamb of god.... but some how they pull it off.
Tony

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#20
Technically if someone made a Speed vs. Feel thread, it would be against forum rules.
No "vs." threads.
#21
Quote by bangoodcharlote
There's been a long of whining about not wanting to learn music theory because it make your playing not from the heart ( It's just coincidence that their favorite songs are essentially scalar?) and that speed is a useless tool for people with small johnsons. I think we need some kind of informative thread that explains why these statements are false, essentially saying that "you don't want to be limited by your lack of that knowledge the one time you need it."


I have to agree with ban here on this one. Playing from the heart is good but you can't tell me that all these people who graduate with degrees in theory and what not aren't good. I also agree that this forum has(including me occasionally) gone off topic to which it was dedicated for. I see "need help sweep picking" and is this drivel anything to do with theory? it should go into the technique forum.

What we should be asking is stuff like how an A minor seventh is also a c major chord with an A bass note. who agrees with me?
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#22
Quote by Caseguitar
I have to agree with ban here on this one. Playing from the heart is good but you can't tell me that all these people who graduate with degrees in theory and what not aren't good. I also agree that this forum has(including me occasionally) gone off topic to which it was dedicated for. I see "need help sweep picking" and is this drivel anything to do with theory? it should go into the technique forum.

What we should be asking is stuff like how an A minor seventh is also a c major chord with an A bass note. who agrees with me?

MT isn't only for theory alone though. Where is the technique forum?
#23
Quote by Shreddmaster
thats not true. u can feel any music. I love all music. Speed is indeed fun. But only in bursts. Who wants a whole song insanely fast? Maybe lamb of god.... but some how they pull it off.

That was just...ok no.

I think theory is extremly important if you want to understand the why's of music. If you know theory you'll know why everything is the way it is, and you'll know how to compose a song exactly the way you want it to be. Emotional playing can be learned through theory. Sure you'll have emotion in your heart or wherever emotion is, but to apply this emotion to your instrument you need to know how to do it, and that's where theory comes in. Technique comes in here as well because yeah you may have an idea but what if your lack of ability suppresses your creativity? Emotional playing can ve very technical, and speed can sound beautiful and melodic, but it's all a matter of skill and knowledge.
#24
Yeah its a good idea. Why can't people play from the heart AND use theory at the same time? It's not that hard, for example i've been using the A minor scale,or C major, or D Dorian;whatever floats your boat, alot here lately. Once you quit bitching about feeling and start understanding the scale you can riff from your "heart". A minor's pretty awesome by the way
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#25
^To BGC: In the shred forum, hehehe. But on topic, I agree with the general idea of this obviously well thought out thread, I just hope it isn't putting across the opposite idea of speed is the only way to make great music and such. I'm still in agreeance i'm just hoping there are no misconceptions and such.
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#26
Quote by Nemesis260
Yeah its a good idea. Why can't people play from the heart AND use theory at the same time? It's not that hard, for example i've been using the A minor scale,or C major, or D Dorian;whatever floats your boat, alot here lately. Once you quit bitching about feeling and start understanding the scale you can riff from your "heart". A minor's pretty awesome by the way


it's all about listening. That is the way of the Dao for guitar. sometimes people think to much about things and they don't play as good like when i concentrate on nailing a piece i mess up but when i'm in a more out there mood its much easier to play because its the subconciese working its wonders!
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#28
Annoying as it is, I see no reason to bar people from expressing their opinions on how they don't believe music theory or technical proficiency is the right path for them. And don't get me wrong, I like to play fast. Where I personally draw the line is when some kid who's just bought his first guitar comes online and asks whether he needs to do alternate picking drills/learn all the notes on the fretboard/etc and six knobs who can't spell the word "theory" come along to tell them that all technique and theory is worthless and they should just play from the heart. Because random notes will sound great coming from the heart, especially if you're new to music and you don't have a developed ear
#29
Quote by rykoff sexton
your right, just look at 8 out of 10 ass holes on youtube.

lol Exactly
#30
Quote by scrilly
Annoying as it is, I see no reason to bar people from expressing their opinions on how they don't believe music theory or technical proficiency is the right path for them. And don't get me wrong, I like to play fast. Where I personally draw the line is when some kid who's just bought his first guitar comes online and asks whether he needs to do alternate picking drills/learn all the notes on the fretboard/etc and six knobs who can't spell the word "theory" come along to tell them that all technique and theory is worthless and they should just play from the heart. Because random notes will sound great coming from the heart, especially if you're new to music and you don't have a developed ear

If ur refering to me youre wrong i like theory.
#31
I play what I feel because I know it works with theroy and it just sounds right. To me you cant say feel vs tech. because what you feel mainly falls into some kind theroy
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#32
Quote by bangoodcharlote
SillyRabbit, this is not just because of you.

Fellow UGers (especially MT mods), it has come to my attention that many people voice their opinions regarding speed, technical proficiency, and general knowledge of the guitar and theory. Generally these opinions are along the lines of "I'm fine just playing so slow stuff that I feel. It's not about speed, dudes."

Obviously, this is flawed thinking, especially on a forum dedicated to teaching people how to play the guitar, so I think we should have some kind of article or sticky that explains why theory and technique are important. Also, I would put in some kind of clause that anti-technique/theory threads will simply be deleted, but that's probably me just being a jackass with a headache.

Anyway, this is just a thought. You guys can decide how important this actually is. Delete this thread if you want; I don't want to cause a ruckus.



I definately agree with you, you have my support. I am going to make a generalization here, saying that the people who don't advocate theory or technique are the people that have not explored it. Why can I make this generalization? Because every person that has voiced an opinion against technique or theory is an ignorant jackass that hasn't explored either area.

Opinions are fine, but without logic and fact behind them, they are COMPLETELY useless. Just because it is an opinion does not make it sacred.

I am too am very tired of the same old arguments going on. It starts with an extremist anti-speed/theory view, then someone coming in and being the middle man saying "Well, it isn't always bad, you dont have to use it all the time/it just a guidelines etc etc" then someone flaming someone else, then someone citing Angus Young saying "YOUNG IS GOD AND HE DOESNT KNOW THOREYLOL!!". Great.

Sometimes I can hardly take it, I fear what the world is coming to. If someone has to tell you that music theory is just a guideline, you sir, are in trouble. First of all, music is an artform, secondly, if you have any understanding of the English language, you would know "theory" is not equal to "law". It is not a constant.

Also, if you can't realize that speed probably shouldn't be used all the time, you again, are in desperate need of base level education. How much excess do you people live in? Do you go home and eat candy bar after candy bar without fail everyday? Do you listen to EVERYTHING somebody tells you, all the time? Holy fiddles, learn to not be an automaton race, people.

Personally, I'm going to be tighter on these completely garbage arguments. Nighty has fangs.

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#33
Quote by nightwind
I definately agree with you, you have my support. I am going to make a generalization here, saying that the people who don't advocate theory or technique are the people that have not explored it. Why can I make this generalization? Because every person that has voiced an opinion against technique or theory is an ignorant jackass that hasn't explored either area.

Opinions are fine, but without logic and fact behind them, they are COMPLETELY useless. Just because it is an opinion does not make it sacred.

I am too am very tired of the same old arguments going on. It starts with an extremist anti-speed/theory view, then someone coming in and being the middle man saying "Well, it isn't always bad, you dont have to use it all the time/it just a guidelines etc etc" then someone flaming someone else, then someone citing Angus Young saying "YOUNG IS GOD AND HE DOESNT KNOW THOREYLOL!!". Great.

Sometimes I can hardly take it, I fear what the world is coming to. If someone has to tell you that music theory is just a guideline, you sir, are in trouble. First of all, music is an artform, secondly, if you have any understanding of the English language, you would know "theory" is not equal to "law". It is not a constant.

Also, if you can't realize that speed probably shouldn't be used all the time, you again, are in desperate need of base level education. How much excess do you people live in? Do you go home and eat candy bar after candy bar without fail everyday? Do you listen to EVERYTHING somebody tells you, all the time? Holy fiddles, learn to not be an automaton race, people.

Personally, I'm going to be tighter on these completely garbage arguments. Nighty has fangs.



Well written text. Except for that line. Damnit, double negatives always get me...
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#34
^ They can be tricky. Two wrongs help make a point? Blekh, maybe double negatives are the devils play thing...?

I hope people catch onto this thread.
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Don't tell me what can be done, either.



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#35
My view: Bends and vibrato are more important than anything. If you don't have in-tune bends or your vibrato is fast and uneven, your solo won't sound good no matter what notes you choose or how fast it is.
#36
Quote by CowboyUp
My view: Bends and vibrato are more important than anything. If you don't have in-tune bends or your vibrato is fast and uneven, your solo won't sound good no matter what notes you choose or how fast it is.


Vibrato is probably the most underrated technique on guitar. People look at me like I'm insane when I tell them to spend a portion of their practice time working on their vibrato, but it really does make or break a song.
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#37
there should be a sticky thread explaining how theory can help or something like that, so people aren't turned off to theory, but other can still express their opinions. as for me, without theory i don't see how it's possible to play what you're feeling, that's why i started to learn theory
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#38
I personaly rather playing slower stuff, just i dunno personaly has more feeling to me, not to discredit those who play fast tho. But i hate people who judge how good a player is by how fast they play thats just dumb, infact judging a player by the songs they play or anything is rubbish. And everyone needs theory there is only so far you can go without it i belive.
#39
I think a lot of the anti theory people don't realize no one is telling them to become a music major. Its just the basics is what i believe the average player should know. After the basics its up to you to learn and research what is relevant to your playing.

The speed vs feel topic, is not logical. People are different. I can look at a painting and have no emotional feeling towards it, but the next person who sees it could be inspired to great lengths.

And the technical part makes me laugh. Listen to some Mozart or some Bach, better yet try to play it(and remember these masters of music used theory to help them). These guys and the people who play their music can make it very emotional, but guess what, they practiced technique for years and years. Technique and theory sure as hell didn't hurt them.

To end my rant i would like to say this, feeling in your playing means reaching your audience.

The Stickied thread is a good idea.
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