Page 2 of 4
#41
Nice stuff, I knew most of it though. But as for modes this is how I think it is:

Ionian + Lydian: Major
Mixolydian: Dominant
Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian: Minor
Locrian: Diminished

And actually I think the application of these is as important as knowing the scales. More on the application would be nice. And I think some more explanation on the blues scale would go a long way
#42
I am not the best at explaining theory, but I'll give the blues scale a go here. Applehead or Johnljones can jump in here and let me know if I go astray..

The Blues scale, like Applehead said is based on the pentatonic minor, but has 6 notes instead of five. The formula is:

1 - b3 - 4 - b5 - 5 - b7

The note that is added is the diminshed 5th, measured from the scale tonic.

What I learned originally back in music theory that the b3, b5 and b7 are called the Blue notes of the scale, though I have heard people refer to just the b5 as the "blue note" as well.

For example a blues scale in A, the notes would be A - C - D - Eb - E - G - A.

The blues scale is widely used in Jazz, Rock and of course Blues. Its a good scale to learn to improvise in and lends itself to a variety of improv techniques, including call and response, and walking bass lines.


And this is turning into quite a solid lesson, good job Applehead. I learned all this back in music theory in college and its been a great refresher course.
#43
I think there is dispute on whether the Blues scale is actually a scale, or whether the one note added is just one note that has been added. I think originally, players used to bend the 4th to get to it, and then it became a scale of it's own, but i am not sure. Either way, i think it has come into common usage and thus can be considered a scale in it's own right. I still find myself bending to the "blues note" though, as i think it sounds cooler and gives it a more Bluesy feel
#44
Ok, I went back and dusted off a few books on this topic. In blues, the 2nd and the b5 (or aug 4th) are usually bent to approximate pitch, like Applehead describes above. Vocally this is easy to sing, and instrumentally, string instruments can bend the sting and wind instruments esp. horns will "lip" to bend the note.

The blue scale is a good solid tool for developing bass lines, since all the notes in the scale sound on key when played against other instruments. There are no bad notes, just some progressions that sound "better" than others.
#45
Quote by Johnljones7443

One more thing.. you said ''NOTICE HOW THERE IS NO E# OR B#'' - which is incorrect (and is related to what I was saying about function) as both of those notes do exist so I'd probably put a note in there saying 'Note: These notes do exist, but are only written when the function of the note requires them in the case of the major seventh of C# being B# and not C, or the major third of C# being E# and not F for example' or something similar to that.



Should double sharps and double flats be mentioned too?
#46
This is what I've been looking for. Thanks for posting! =]
BRIGHT LIGHTS PUT ME IN A TRANCE.
but it aint house music that makes me want to dance.
#47
they denied my exercise........so if you want a wicked bass exercise of the modes email me or PM me its a GTpro5
Fender '51 Precision Bass
Hofner Verythin LTD Edition Guitar in Walnut w/ Bigsby
Engelhardt ES9 Upright Bass
1968 Trayner YBA 1A MK II Amp
w/ 6x10 cabinet

www.iaminlimbo.com
#48
Quote by Anarkee
There are no bad notes, just some progressions that sound "better" than others.


I will have to dispute that fact oftimes the #4 (or aug4 or 5b you nitpickers ) sounds incredibly dissonant, it is used much more wisely as a passing tone.

Wow this lesson is really good I must admit modes are a little above me in my mind anyway. I find I can't learn this over an article or a lesson like this I need a real person talking but still great job.
#49
Quote by Johnljones7443
.. the most common place to see an augmented 2nd interval is the _7#9 chord. Made up like.. 1 - 3 - 5 - b7 - #9..

You could just call it a C#9 couldn't you? Because if something is C9 for example it's assumed to have the dominant 7th.

Also locrian is the HALF diminished scale.
#50
I thought you HAD to have the b7th to support the 9th? so yeah i guess you are right
#51
As my old teacher said, anything over 7 must include a 7. If you just right C11 or whatever then it's assumed to be a dominant 7. If you're not going to include the 7th then you put ADD 11 or yeah.

Also modes don't have to be played over those chords, in fact I regularly use them to make grroves for a song in that key or something of the like. Like I use a certain mode when I feel it's appropriate or is what I'm going for.
#52
Why is the 2nd not considered perfect, like the 4th, 5th, and octave? arent they the same note in major and minor, or am i missing soming?
#53
And am i right in thinking that each mode follows the same patern but just starting at a different note? wwhwwwh e.g. d e f g a b c d being the dorian mode
#54
Quote by musiclover2399
You could just call it a C#9 couldn't you? Because if something is C9 for example it's assumed to have the dominant 7th.

Also locrian is the HALF diminished scale.


No, C#9 would imply a C# dominant 9th chord. If you had the notes C - E - G - Bb - D# you must call it C7#9. Saying C#9 implies C# - E# - G# - B - D#.
#55
Quote by Applehead
Fsba, where are you at with theory stuff?

Way to change my intire acronym! Anywho, I've started learning modes. But I already know all the keys, and what not. Learned that 3yrs ago. And I know what #7ths b3's and all that. It's just a matter of memorizing modes. I've got the Major, Minor, Chromatic, and the harmonic Minor. I can't play them very fast, still have to think to play them, but it's all good.
#56
IMO, you should have mentioned how all of the modes connect to the major scale, not just how to form them. For example, C Ionian and D Dorian are both in the same key, as is E Phrygian, B Locrian, and A Aeolian (the relative minor, which you also didn't mention).
#57
im gonna read this as soon as my school work is done...i shouldnt be on here right now so yaknow, looks a reallly good and useful lesson apple
Custom 4 String P/J-Bass
Zoom B2.1u
Ashdown Thomann Special Edition 180w
Ashdown Perfect 10 Combo

Member of the Bass Militia, PM Nutter_101 to join
#58
Quote by Scourge441
IMO, you should have mentioned how all of the modes connect to the major scale, not just how to form them. For example, C Ionian and D Dorian are both in the same key, as is E Phrygian, B Locrian, and A Aeolian (the relative minor, which you also didn't mention).

Well though the modes use the same key signatures at the beginning of musical staff and the chords in a certain key can be derived from another, they're not exactly the same. I'm willing to explain further if I get to handle next monthes lesson.

Also yeah I was wrong about the C#9 thing Luckily I was corrected.
#59
^ Feel free bro! It would be nice to follow on further, as this is really only a basic lesson to people introduced to theory and scales.. i tried not to get too complicated
#61
Quote by musiclover2399
Well though the modes use the same key signatures at the beginning of musical staff and the chords in a certain key can be derived from another, they're not exactly the same. I'm willing to explain further if I get to handle next monthes lesson.

Also yeah I was wrong about the C#9 thing Luckily I was corrected.

Still, he should explain how the modes relate in keys, since the chords in a key are derived from the modes.
#62
to check out my modal excersise thread...great coverage of the modes in G maj....all patterns are moveable too
Fender '51 Precision Bass
Hofner Verythin LTD Edition Guitar in Walnut w/ Bigsby
Engelhardt ES9 Upright Bass
1968 Trayner YBA 1A MK II Amp
w/ 6x10 cabinet

www.iaminlimbo.com
#65
very good lesson! I know most of it so it helps to know the rest. Can someone tell me what diminished means?
-Member of the Bass Militia-

My gear:

Fender Standard Jazz Bass
Austin P-Style Bass
Hondo Strat
Digitech RP 100 artist
Crate Bx-25
Crate Gt-15

#69
This is kinda a noob question and might have already been answered or something.

But why are bass scales never on the G string?
Quote by brandooon
Buy both pickups. Rub icyhot on both of them. Sandwich your penis between them and walk to the nearest homeless shelter with your brand new icyhot penis sandwich.
#70
Quote by Woogles
This is kinda a noob question and might have already been answered or something.

But why are bass scales never on the G string?


well, they are... the notes are on the G string as well. its just that with a lot of exercises and demonstrations, you can work through a scale from the tonic to the octave without using the 4th (g string), that is, if you start the scale with a note on the E string.
i need to get a better signature.
#71
can someone explain things like relative keys? (i think thats the term for it)

I mean, I know that A minor is the relative minor of C Major. C Major and A minor are both in the key of C. No sharps, no flats. But why then, do we need two scales that contain the same notes? They both have C D E F G A B. I know it has something to do with intervals and stuff but i cant really explain it.

Like when I was going through this lesson with my bass (great lesson btw) and I played the locrian mode starting on B, the end result was B C D E F G A and then back to B....

Can someone tell me why these things overlap? I reckon there are a bunch of others that overlap so why do we need 80 million scales????

(btw i know that there arent 80 million scales that was just an exaggeration in case anyone wants to get funny)

this is probably a really newb question and its probably basic theory but I just need someone to tell me directly.
"All matter is merely energy condensed into a slow vibration and we're all one consciousness experiencing ourselves subjectively, theres no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves."
#72
I am unsure but personally I think it's because of what chords you would use in that key and what tones you resolve to. Like in C major you will resolve a lot to C and maybe G in a minor you would resolve to a and maybe e. That's just what my thinking is.
#73
when you get into tonality, most chord progressions will want to resolve to the beginning and should. resolving a Gmaj to an Emin could work, but and Amin would leave it a bit incomplete.
Quote by Mr. T
"Mr. T defines love as the reluctance to murder. If you're still alive, it's because Mr. T loves you."
#74
XeNoCiDe730, I totally understand where you're coming from and have a simple answer. Scales with the same notes sound different because of how they gravitate towards the root. For example, play the C maor scale starting on the A string, pretty light sounding right?

Hit the open E, let it ring, and immediately play the scale again. Sounds different aye? It's because of how the notes are contrasting, very much like how a guitarists chords sound the way they do, because of how they react to eachother.

I can go into much more detail, if you want me to send a PM or look for when I eventually do a lesson myself.
#75
I've always played Phrygian like this, are you sure this isn't right? I'm still new, so forgive me if I'm incorrect:

---------------------------------------------8--10
------------------------------8--10--11---------
---------------8--9--11-------------------------
---8--9--11-------------------------------------
Quote by Angels Fighter
we once had night of just slapping each others ass. Is that incest?


call me evan.

bass militia's pretentious dick. pm dinkydaisy.

the trap i set for you seems to've caught my leg instead.

<meh> I'm pro black penis in my bum
#76
well am new here and am feeling at home love to chat with anybody available
#79
Quote by Piro Gonzalez
I've always played Phrygian like this, are you sure this isn't right? I'm still new, so forgive me if I'm incorrect:

---------------------------------------------8--10
------------------------------8--10--11---------
---------------8--9--11-------------------------
---8--9--11-------------------------------------


you've lowered the 5th as well as the 2end, this is a locrian scale. if it were a phrygian you would have left the 5th unchanged.
Quote by Mr. T
"Mr. T defines love as the reluctance to murder. If you're still alive, it's because Mr. T loves you."
#80
Quote by musiclover2399
XeNoCiDe730, I totally understand where you're coming from and have a simple answer. Scales with the same notes sound different because of how they gravitate towards the root. For example, play the C maor scale starting on the A string, pretty light sounding right?

Hit the open E, let it ring, and immediately play the scale again. Sounds different aye? It's because of how the notes are contrasting, very much like how a guitarists chords sound the way they do, because of how they react to eachother.

I can go into much more detail, if you want me to send a PM or look for when I eventually do a lesson myself.

holy crap that makes a lot sense!...

i was all wrapped up in the notes I didnt notice the way the different scales progressed...

that sounds reasonable...it certainly helps explain the different scales with the same notes but I have a feeling theres more to it than that. I'd really like some more info if you dont mind, out here in the thread so everyone can read it as opposed to the PM where only I would be able to read it...I can wait for a new lesson though, that way it can be more thorough and everything, you should run it by one of the bass forum mods.

btw just call me xeno
"All matter is merely energy condensed into a slow vibration and we're all one consciousness experiencing ourselves subjectively, theres no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves."