Put a tube mic preamp after your Pod and you will be suprised what kind of sounds you get. Trust me, shell out 50 bucks for a cheap tube pre amp. BTW, my amp doesn't have an aux in, what should my EQ be on my amp if I'm using a POD?
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run ur EQ flat, that is turned down all the way. Thats so long as there's EQ on your v-amp

Quote by darkstar2466

The only reason it exists is because drugs get people fucked up, and people love getting fucked up.

Sell the POD and the preamp, and you will be able to afford a real tube amp (VJ anyone?). Sure, it's not as versatile, but it sure sounds better.
I'm actually using a vamp 2, but Pod seems to catch peoples eyes to get some feedback. believe it or not, the thing gets damn good sounds, specially with that tube after it, its my amp that is shit, an aux in and I would be very happy...for a practice amp that is, sounds great recording direct to computer too. It sounds more realistic than those damn pods and from my experience than the gt8s, but btw, if I sold em, I'd only have about 100...unless i found someone really stupid.
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I had a V-amp 2 for about a year, and it sucked. All the amp models were mediocre, as were the effects.

Play a real tube amp (which it sounds like you haven't) and you will hear the difference.
Don't wanna hijack this... But I've been considering doing this for clean sounds as I quite like some of the clean settings on the POD... can anyone recommend a good tube preamp?
Actually, I've played many tube amps, Every Mesa you can think of, fender twin, fender hot rod, Marshalls, Peavey's, B52's (awesome buy btw) and trust me, I know what a tube amp sounds like, I'm not saying it behaves like a tube amp, or sounds like a specific one, but it definately sounds like one when you but a pre amp after it. The effects on the thing are total shit though.

If you are looking for a tube pre amp for your effects chain, go with a cheapy like ART (small size, small price, decent tone for the application) Whatever you do...don't buy a behringer...There is a tube in those things, but it doesn't actually do anything. They don't do crap. Just a tip for those who love models!
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That's the problem with modeling- some of them (not many, but a few) get decent sounds, but none of them can recreate the response and feel of a tube amp. Good tone is nothing if your playing style is strangled by your amp's inability to react to your playing.

That said, nothing beats a POD for silent/quiet practice- I've got to try that tube preamp trick.
Quote by notsojoeyb4eva
run ur EQ flat, that is turned down all the way. Thats so long as there's EQ on your v-amp

Flat is turned mid way (noon), down all the way is cut.
"A wise man once said, never discuss philosophy or politics in a disco environment." - Frank Zappa
Quote by Jinskee
Don't question the X.
<Frenchy> I'm such a failure
I rather have the real thing, kthnxbye.
Co-Founder of the Orange Revolution Club

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if you wanna bypass the preamp, but your amp has no efx loop, you can use the CD in if your amp has one
Peavey 5150, LTD EX400BD, tubescreamer, and a whole lotta fingers
everybody says they can't recreate the responsiveness of an all-tube amp, but i disagree. the boss gt8 and the pod xt are programmed to do exactly that. clean up your playing and they go clean as can be (as long as you're not on a high-gain model).

old school digital stuff, when it clipped it would just cut the top/bottoms of the wave off sharply, which sounded like crap. tube distortion rounds off the tops/bottoms. nowadays flagship modelling stuff is programmed to emulate the exact signal path that any given tube amp has, and all the little nuances of it.

the behringer v-amp is a hunk of crap, and so are the old pods. but the gt8, the pod xt, and the tonelab are freaking awesome.

the only hangup after that is power amp distortion. when cranked to full, a 100 watt tube head is gonna sound wayyyyy better than a 100 watt solid state head. period, but that's because of the same clipping issue. solid state amps need assloads more power so that you don't get that sharp nasty clipping.

given all this tubes only sound a little bit better than a well setup modelling rig. but both sound like crap when you get far away from them because of CRAPPY TRANSIENCE. BBE sonic maximizers solve this problem, but if you run your tube amp through it, say goodbye to what you guys call "warmth". you just ran your signal into something digtal! blasphemer!

so basically: (boss gt8 or pod xt -> BBE 482i -> poweramp -> your choice of speaker setup) >>>>>>>>>>>> tube rig.

and this is all not factoring in stage mics, if you're playing live. if you use a shure 57 or pretty much any staple instrument mic on your amp, you're "killing" your tone anyway.

one exeption: modellers only model popular and common amps. certain tube voicings haven't been modelled yet, so to get their sound, you don't have a choice but to buy the amp.
Last edited by Pizzapotamus at Feb 8, 2007,
i play my laptop with toneport into my laney (all tube) vc 30 which sounds great, so i definitely agree that there's mileage of playing modelling effects into tube amps/poweramps.
Quote by Pizzapotamus
everybody says they can't recreate the responsiveness of an all-tube amp, but i disagree. the boss gt8 and the pod xt are programmed to do exactly that. clean up your playing and they go clean as can be (as long as you're not on a high-gain model).

Those multi-effects can't create the feel ('sag', etc.) of a tube amp, which is just as important as the tone.
I'm not too sure about your "digital>>>>>>>>>tube" statement. As I have stated many many many times in this forum, the digital technology being released today is far greater than the first couple of generations (with the exception of the Johnson Milennium and Line6 AX212, those were great from the get-go), but I don't believe that one will ever be better than the other. You have to look at it from an artists perspective; use whatever color or tool that works for a given situation. If you're playing AC/DC covers for a large audience, then a high wattage Marshall with a couple of 4x12's will come in as the #1 tool for that situation. But another option exists. I can sculpt a similar tone (please note that I did not say same tone) with a Boss GT-8 running through a couple of JBL EON monitors. The sound can get close...I would say it neither falls short or excells, it's just its own thing.

The GT-8 (and POD, and whatever other digital component you want to add) still has its limitations, and about 99% of those limitations come from from the digital/analog conversion technology that's being implemented in the units today. If they were to up the sample rates to 96KHz or higher, then the digital "harshness" that most describe would become less of an issue. Understanding the unit and how digital technology works is key to getting great tone, and the concepts used in the digital realm carry over well to the analog world also.

Understanding that digital has a ceiling that must be avoided at all costs is the number one lesson you must learn. You need to dial in the input, each effect block, and the final output to maintain an addequate amount of "headroom" to avoid digital clipping. You don't need to crank a digital modeler because its exact purpose is to model a given tube amp cranked to its limits. Ever since I started doing this, I have had ZERO problems getting great tones out of the GT-8. All I need after that is a great power amp that can take the tone from the GT-8 and simply (and cleanly) make it louder. A tube power amp is not needed to accomplish this, but yields beautiful results.

And using a tube mic pre after the modeler is a great idea. It's something I used before I learned how to properly work with the unit, but even now I can still understand how it, along with a properly calibrated EQ, could have a positive effect on my overall tone. The EQ can help to smooth out any problem areas, and some natural tube compression can make it even sweeter.

As far as the arguments about "having the real thing", that is a valid feeling to have. But from a practicality point of view, I really don't have room for the "real thing". The modeler does exactly what I need it to do...give me a pretty great, general tone of a cranked tube amp without the volume or loss of space that a tube amp would require. I don't have to worry about micing up something and dealing with tone differences between my ears and the mic, and changes can be made easily on the fly with virtual mic placement, speaker size, etc.

I spent a couple of years with a Twin Reverb, even more time with a Hot Rod Deluxe, and I'm just beginning to get into my Roadster, but aside from those that I've owned, setting up rigs for others over the years has granted me the gift of having a lot of quality time with some great tube amps. I would say I've got a pretty good ear for reference between digital and tube. In terms of response, I really don't hear much of a difference between a good modeler (dialed-in properly, of course) and a diode-rectified tube amp. An amp with a tube rectifier can be leaned on a bit harder, and a pleasent reaction occurs (sag). The overall balance in a diode-rectified amp depends on the relation between the pre and power tubes, and that is something that digital cannot create yet. This relationship is quite variable, and can change quite a bit depending on many factors. This is why tube amps, even the same models with connected serial numbers, sound just a little different from each other. It is a stellar dynamic, and hopefully digital will be able to get closer to that dynamic soon.


In other words...it really ain't all that bad
i agree with you almost completely. but as far as i'm concerned, BBE changed the rules of the tone game.
Ok, it keeps coming back to this: you can do all sorts of digital stuff to approximate the sound of a tube amp running full bore, and with a bunch of tweaking there are some digital products that get close to the sound. Some even clean up with changes in volume. If you need a ton of different sounds, it's a good choice.
There is no substitute for tubes. This is for a couple of reasons:
1. Digital just isn't there yet. There's some good stuff out there, but the sounds aren't 100%.
2. Digital harshness and other artifacts- CDs have been around for almost 30 years now, and the sound quality still isn't as good as records. There's just something about analog that digital can't yet replace.
3. Ease of use. Tube amps are plug in and crank. Digital amps need a LOT of tweaking to sound proper.
4. Feedback- solid state/digital amps don't feed back in a pleasant, controllable way. They just don't.
5. Compatablility- the way solid state stuff clips is something that can't be controlled by any digital modeling. You can't put a huge amount of fuzz and boost in front of a SS amp because it will clip and sound harsh and muddy and awful. Tube amps just take pedals better.
6. Punch- it just doesn't translate to digital. Yet.
7. Speakers- digital amps can model a bunch of amps, but speaker interaction makes a big difference in tone and there's no way to modify the characteristics of the speaker in the amp.
8. Mojo. I'm kidding here, but only a little bit. 100 tube watts just makes your dick look bigger.

So there's a couple. I still say digital is a great tool, epecially for recording, getting a lot of sounds, and quiet practice. For loud, sweet tone, it's still tube. I don't know if digital will ever catch up. I hope so, because it would make things a lot easier. But at this point, it looks a long way away, if ever.
I agree, no substitute for tubes (for recording at least). I've found that live performances...rarely does it matter whether you've got a marshall or mesa, I'd say 90% of the time, the acoustics of your situation (at a gig) It really doesn't make a difference. I've seen so many damn bands that all sound the same whether or not their equip is completely different due to shitty acoustics. Which would make digital stuff more practical. Also, as for your number 3...totally not true, you aren't going to sound like a god no matter what your settings are on just because theres a tube or 8 in there. Take for example any non rectifying mesa and especially that hot rod deluxe TWOSTRING was talking about. I love the hot rod (blow your ears off loud for the size) but it takes a little while to get the right tone.
I think there has to be a way to incorporate modeling and tubes into an actual head. Not those pussy ass single tubes. I'm talking about completely refiguring which tubes are used when and what goes after and before the tubes and including power tubes. But sadly, probably an expensive way.
I'm hungry.
When I said that tube amps are easier to use, I guess I didn't mean that they were foolproof. It's just easier to tweak a couple of knobs than all the parameters and models and crap for digital stuff, especially with line 6 stuff where you can spend hours tweaking parameters, whereas tube amps sound good dialed in right out of the box. They're less flexible, but easier to get tones out of due to fewer controls.
Quote by ConfusedBirdman
BTW, love your gear roc

Thanks! I'm working on getting a recording rig set up so you guys can hear it too. I'm really happy with the tone right now.
I'd say it's really not that far away...

I've got my Mesa Roadster cranked up...oh...and what's that...I'm using a Boss GT-8 for effects...OH NOEZZ!!!!!

Whatever...I love it, and there's nothing that anyone can do to make me not love it (and yes, I own analog stomps...I'll accept more if anyone wants to try to "convince" me, but I know how to dial in this rig and make it sound great).

Tone is in the ear of the beholder...I might cringe at the tones you get from your all tube/analog rig, but they work for you, right? I've heard tones from 6L6 equipped amps that sounded cold and shrill to me, and I've heard other 6L6 amps (like my Roadster over here) that sound f'n fantastic...warm, full and everything I want/need it to be. The same feeling I was able to dial in on my GT-8. But I know full well that just as I may not sound great through someone else's rig, someone else can use my rig and have the same reaction. I've experienced enough of that to know that a lot of tonality is affected by the user (lord knows I've built and played through enough rigs using Mesa Rectifiers that sounded horrible, but as soon as the owner plugs in and goes, it sounds incredible).

I'm not trying to convince anyone else to believe in any "voodoo", but I'm just explaining my side from my own experience. Long live your own experiences, and more importantly, may you all find the tones that will inspire your music...and maybe nuclear disarmament.

EDIT - I agree, stellar setup Roc...I like the simplicity of your amp...and the clear view of the 'bulbs' in the rear.
Last edited by TwoString at Feb 8, 2007,
Actually, i hope you all find the tones you are looking for, play a couple gigs with it, and then search for another. Enjoy the path of tone searching, just don't go broke. Happy Tweaking!
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