#1
Hey, Im new to music theory, and recently learned all the notes that are on each strings (i know, i know...easy stuff) but hey, I needed to start somewhere to get some inspiration, cause, face it Music Theory is alot to absorb!

Anyway, what im posting is what I think would help me in know why songs sound pleasing to the ears, and guitar parts go with eachother, etc..

So in my mind I thought I should study a song from a band I like, that I know how to play with ease, and in a genre or style, id like to start making my own songs in. I chose paramore (ahaha, i know alot of you probally dont like them, but hey i do lol.) anyway, I looked at a tab that I found here, and wrote all the notes that are in the song, and thought this is a good way to understand why stuff goes together.

I just was wondering if this is the right thing to do, or could it form some sort of bad habbit down the line? I think what im trying to find is what key they are playing in? Anyway, below is what I have written down, please take a look.

Paramore - My Heart: Standard Tuning
Original Tabbing By: Trevor Shintaku
URL: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/p/paramore/my_heart_tab.htm

Intro/Chorus:
Guitar 1: E, A, C#/Db, G#/Ab
Guitar 2: G#/Ab, B, F#/Gb, E

Verse 1:
Guitar 1: C#/Db, B, E
Guitar 2: E, B, G#/Ab, A, E

Verse 2:
Guitar 1: C#/Db, B, E
Guitar 2: B, E, G#/Ab, A

Chorus/Bridge:
Guitar 1: E
Guitar 2: G#/Ab, F#Gb, B

Breakdown:
Guitar 1:A, B, C#/Db, E
Guitar 2: G#/Ab, B, F#/Gb, C#/Db, D#/Eb, E, G#/Ab, A, D#/Eb, C#/Db

End:
Guitar 1: C#/Db

- - -
INTRO/CHORUS
VERSE 1
CHORUS
VERSE 2
CHORUS
BRIDGE
BREAKDOWN
- - -

By all the notes that Ive gathered, how do I go about finding the key of the song? (and ya i looked on this site for previous posts, but couldnt really understand them) can anyone help me out? I included the original tab URL incase you needed to look at it.


Basicly what im trying to get out of this post is

1: is this good to do when starting out, sit down, find a tab, write dow which notes are in it. etc...
2: would this help down the line, in writing songs, and finding keys?
3: can someone give me a push and tell me what key it is in, and a quick response on why (like example (dunno if this is how you go about it anyway) theres alot of Ab in there so its in the key of Ab)

Thank you for any input good/bad

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Last edited by brandenetc at Feb 13, 2007,
#2
IMHO, I think it doesn't matter if you learn guitar by learning songs. i do that at least. When you're good enough, you'd think that you'd want to move on to solos. that's when you're gonna need those scales.
#3
Well, see, thats the thing ive been playing for 4 or 5 years, and can pretty much play any tab, and sweeping im a little slow but not bad, im practicing that, and will get better soon. I just want to know why those notes go good together. And want to start making my own songs now, instead of just playing others...
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#4
IMHO, I think it doesn't matter if you learn guitar by learning songs. i do that at least. When you're good enough, you'd think that you'd want to move on to solos. that's when you're gonna need those scales.


Thanks though, I do understand what you are saying. Dont get me wrong.
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#5
I'm a little confused on what the song is, but studying how songs are made is a great way to learn how scales and arpg, notes etc. are used on top of each other. I'd recomend starting out with more complicated songs, ie dream theater ozzy w/ rhoads, etc. to see how they are built. Also don't get too absorbed in the solo, because every good solo needs a strong backing riff.
The other part to this is you said "pleasing to the ears" Remember that less is more when it comes to pleasing the 90% of people who will be listening to your stuff. you'll get your random shred buffs and guitar geeks and freaks, and of course the people who think that whatever you have to do is bullshit and they can do a million times better. A lot of times the more busy a song is the less people like it, so you really should thing about what you're going for.
something like 90-95% of all rock/metal/blues/country etc. songs are in the key of the first chord that is played. you can figure out the first chord, and check and see if the others fit. looks like the key of eminor to me, but i dont have a guitar with me.
i'd recomend disecting a little harder of a song if you want to dive deep in music theory.
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#6
I cant tell you if thats a good way to start or not, but that is exactly what im doing....

the trick to finding the key of the song, is to count the number of sharps or flats from the tab that you wrote out

then use the circle of fifths



count the number of sharps OR flats that you see tabbed out. go accordingly thru the chart to find the key. for example: if you counted 3 sharps, it would be in the key of A
#7
I'm a little confused on what the song is, but studying how songs are made is a great way to learn how scales and arpg, notes etc. are used on top of each other. I'd recomend starting out with more complicated songs, ie dream theater ozzy w/ rhoads, etc. to see how they are built. Also don't get too absorbed in the solo, because every good solo needs a strong backing riff.
The other part to this is you said "pleasing to the ears" Remember that less is more when it comes to pleasing the 90% of people who will be listening to your stuff. you'll get your random shred buffs and guitar geeks and freaks, and of course the people who think that whatever you have to do is bullshit and they can do a million times better. A lot of times the more busy a song is the less people like it, so you really should thing about what you're going for.
something like 90-95% of all rock/metal/blues/country etc. songs are in the key of the first chord that is played. you can figure out the first chord, and check and see if the others fit. looks like the key of eminor to me, but i dont have a guitar with me.
i'd recomend disecting a little harder of a song if you want to dive deep in music theory.


Thanks, yeah I hear what you are saying fully. The bands link is www.myspace.com/paramore if you want to hear them, alot of people of people on UG probally dont like them. I listen to alot of stuff and play metal, jazz etc..but that sorta genre paramore is in is the sorta band I would like to be in or play there music, I know its nothing fancy but its what I like, know what I mean? Like playing solos, and metal and stuff is fun, but I just couldnt be having %100 fun in a band like that.

And Ill keep that in mind, about the key is the first note played in a song. And will check out those bands you suggested, Ive heard alot of ozzys stuff love him, and not so much of dreams stuf, but ill raid my dads cd collection ahha.


- - -

So from what i get you do think that is a good idea to do what im doing? and did you happen to take a look at that original tab URL that was posted? if not its cool, j/w
it will make what I wrote make more sense
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#8
To Datt
count the number of sharps OR flats that you see tabbed out. go accordingly thru the chart to find the key. for example: if you counted 3 sharps, it would be in the key of A


That was really helpfull! You should keep an eye on this post then aswell, cause someone soon may say if its a good or bad thing, hoefully its a good thing is what im hoping!

Thanks again bud
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#9
Oh the circle of fiths thing, do I count how many are in each verse etc...chouras, then add them up wich is more than is shown on that image

or just count the first orignals # or b's
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#10
I counted 4 "#'s or b's" so is it a " E major Ab major or C#minor or Fminor" sorry, bout this once i get it, it will be alot easier for me aha

and by looking at the Circle of 5ths image
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#11
ahahaha

well in that case,

what is the chord progression?

like what chords are being played?
#12
well first, what am i suppsed to look at cause, i counted and there 4 and if you look flats and sharps both have 4 wich are Ab and E

example
C# is the same as Db

so it hink thats where im getting confused is counting the b's and #'s

that make sense?
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#13
c'mon UG people, i know it'd be easy for some of you to help me out, help a fellow guitarist trying to learn, please
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#14
Basically, I straight out memorized the chords in each key. It's really not that difficult since each key really has 6 primary chords and related keys (G, C, Am for example) share a lot of the same chords. You can remember groups of six chords right? Think of them as learning songs, since most songs fall within a key and have about the same amount of chords.


An advantage to this is that 100 songs in the same key will most likely use the same 6 chords (or not stray far from them). So once you learn the chords in that key, you will recognize that key right away and will be much easier to learn and memorize a song, since it's using a group of chords you have studied and played as a group many times before.

For example, I'll spend 30 minutes strumming through the chords E, F#m, G#m, A, B, C#m... basically just improvising a tune using these chords... in random orders.

Sure, what I'm playing isn't necessarily any particular song... BUT it is the foundation for most every song in the key of E major and C#m. So now when I see that group of chords in a song, I recognize the key almost instantly. And better yet, once I play that song for the first time, I feel as if I've been playing it for months because in a sense, I have.

And when it comes time to remember the song, it's not an issue of remembering the chords from this large database in your head. It's just remembering the order in which these particular six chords are played.

I used the key of C#m and Emajor as an example because (from very quickly looking at the notes you provided) the song appears to be closely related to these keys.

It also takes a ton of guess work out of transcribing songs, for the very same reason. If I can figure out a couple chords by ear, the rest I can logically figure out based on the key. Learning those chords should help you achieve a similar sound.

Of course, this is all a generalization, but I found it helped me incredibly to be able to "randomly" pull chords from thin air to create music in an improvisational sense and also when writing my own stuff.
#15
thanks, i like the spend 30mins stuming through the chords, that can be of help. would you say the Co5 works well to? ill def be re-reading what you wrote,
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#16
alot of people helped, but comon 156 views, and not one has any input good or bad ahaha
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#18
learning theory through learning songs is good

bumping threads isn't generally considered to be good
#19
It is great that you have the patience to sit down and write out the notes from tab. It'll make you better at knowing the fretboard, no doubt about that. It's not bad practice, but not entirely necessary.

I'd say get a guitar book, whether it is a level book (that means level 1, 2, 3,etc.) or you're doing Band book (for instance, the Eric Clapton's greatest hits guitar book), and try to work with that instead of writing all the notes out. They both will have notation (band books have both tabs and standard notation in case you get confused), and you can do the same thing you're doing now, but saving yourself some time.

As for keys, the Circle of Fifths is great if you know EXACTLY how many #'s or b's there are, but some songs (especially ones involving 3 chords total *CCR*) will be a little more ambiguous. One trick to find the key is to just play the song and listen for what sounds like the tonic or "final" chord. That is, if you have a progression like Am-D-G, then you play the three chords and notice how "final" the G sounds, therefore G is your key. That progression, by the way, is a ii-V-I (you'll learn more about it in theory).

Hope that helps
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#20
hey thanks "Ocean's Rage" ill look into a book like that, i think i have a blink 182 and metallica one somewere


and as for Co5 im trying to find a thread here that dumbs it down for me, but still no luck ahaha, i almost sorta get from what the guy posted here, but not fullly
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#21
You'll understand it more when you play more songs and study a little bit more theory. None of this stuff is instant. It took me a while to fully memorize the Co5's. I still don't know my minor Co5's, so we are all still learning.
Some of the most powerful moments are when there is nothing to be said