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#1
If you love music, please sign this. Re-post it as a MySpace bulletin. Send a chain mail out. Post it on a forum. I don't care. Music and dance should be celebrated not targeted. Lets bring down at least one of the hundreds of bollocks laws the government is (and had been for years, whichever party in power) bringing in to regulate and restrict everything and anything.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

The Government have recently passed laws in the UK to try and suppress live music and dance. This will massively effect musicians looking for venues to jump-start their career, as well as anyone who loves music, dance or both.

"The recently introduced changes in licensing law have produced an environment where music and dance, activities which should be valued and promoted in a civilised society, are instead damaged by inappropriate regulation. We call on the Prime Minister to recognise this situation and take steps to correct it."

Please sign the petition:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/

Online petitions have recently made headline news and actually made the government think twice, lets see if we can get this bullshit overturned.

More and more laws and restricitions, makes you wonder when the government will start to decriminalize fun instead of supressing more and more freedoms.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/licensing/


http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Research/research_by_dcms/live_music_exec_summary.htm

Points to remember about the new legislation:

a.. The unlicensed provision of even one musician is a potential
criminal offence (although some places are exempt, including places of public religious worship, royal palaces and moving vehicles). Max penalty: £20,000 fine and six months in prison.

b.. The rationale is to prevent noise, crime and disorder, to ensure public safety, and the protection of children from harm.

c.. But broadcast entertainment, including sport and music, is exempt - no matter where, and no matter how powerfully amplified.

d.. In the transition to the new regime, bars with jukeboxes, CD
players etc were automatically granted a license to play recorded
music; but their automatic entitlement to one or two musicians was abolished.

e.. For the first time, private performances raising money for charity are licensable.

f.. School performances open to friends and family are licensable -
they count as public performances.

g.. Under the old regime all premises licensed to sell alcohol for
consumption on the premises were automatically allowed up to two live musicians (the 'two in a bar rule').

h.. In December, DCMS published research confirming that about 40% of these have lost any automatic entitlement to live music as a result of the new Act:

'Very few establishments that wanted a new license were denied it, and many who were previously limited to 2-in-a-bar now have the ability to stage music with 2 or more musicians... This contrasts, of course, with the fact that 40% of establishments now have no automatic means of putting on live music (i.e. they would have to give a TEN).'

['Licensing Act 2003: The experience of smaller establishments in
applying for live music authorization'; December 2006', paragraphs
6.1.1 and 6.1.2 'Conclusions', p54; Caroline Callahan, Andy Martin,
Anna Pierce, Ipsos-MORI]

'TEN' stands for Temporary Event Notice - in effect a temporary
entertainment licence. Only 12 are allowed per premises per year.
They cost £21 each. See the full MORI reports on this site:

http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Research/research_by_dcms/live_music_exec_summary.htm


------------------------------
My personal bit:

Some of you might remember me, but I doubt it. I used to be a fairly regular poster, but because of work and other things I slowly stopped. Anyway, I thought I would post this here as it affects a lot of upcoming musicians most. Cheers, boothy

EDIT: I know it's a far shot, but it would be great if this was stickied. I know to some people there may be many more important issues, but how many bands kickstarted their careers from small pub performances - the venues this will effect most. It would be great to spread this through the music community.

EDIT NUMBER 2:
After you have filled out the form, remember to actually verify your signature by clicking the link on an e-mail which should be in your inbox (or junk if you have something like hotmail probably). If you don't it is not counted as actually signed.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

Last edited by boothy at Feb 14, 2007,
#3
Quote by GiantRaven
*Doesn't believe this in the slightest*


Well then mate, maybe you should click the link. It is an official law, an official petition on the Downing Street Website. Have a gander:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?sort=signers

Seventh down on the list mate.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#5
yeah man I make my living out of playing bars in the UK
if you can't be a good example
be a bad warning


Quote by aequitasveritas
lol, so i got a boner this one time and i was watching tv, so i decided to hump the little crack between the two cushions of the couch. yeah.


www.free-game-downloads.mosw.com
#6
Quote by GiantRaven
Interesting...

I'd sign it but I wouldn't feel comfortable putting my address in there


No unfortunately not many musicians do, probably because throughout history music and other arts (basically anything that can draw huge groups of people together and threaten the government or have the capacity change things) have been targeted and persecuted by government laws, sometimes very blantantly.

Still, consider that thousands of people will sign the petition, and that the adresses won't be used for anything other than verification that people aren't faking signatures - the numbers of people are important, and there is no risk as far as I can see (and I am very skeptical about authority and paranoid about certain things).
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#7
Quote by Gummy Balls
yeah man I make my living out of playing bars in the UK


Be sarcastic all you want, but where did the Rolling Stones, Oasis, Stone Roses (and those are only the ones I am sure of) start out?

Building up a reputation through playing small venues, getting their name known and eventually attracting record companies.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#9
Quote by boothy
Be sarcastic all you want, but where did the Rolling Stones, Oasis, Stone Roses (and those are only the ones I am sure of) start out?

Building up a reputation through playing small venues, getting their name known and eventually attracting record companies.

Dude I'm not being sarcastic, I really do. I play covers in them about 4 nights a week.

This really is quite important to me, But unfortunatly I'm not a british citizen so I can't sign it
if you can't be a good example
be a bad warning


Quote by aequitasveritas
lol, so i got a boner this one time and i was watching tv, so i decided to hump the little crack between the two cushions of the couch. yeah.


www.free-game-downloads.mosw.com
Last edited by Gummy Balls at Feb 13, 2007,
#10
Quote by Gummy Balls
Dude I'm not being sarcastic, I really do. I play covers in them about 4 nights a week.

This really is quite important to me


I apologise mate, I wasn't quite sure, but on the internet I have taken sarcastic comments for literal meanings so many times I now just presume most things are sarcastic. Sorry 'bout that.

Anyway, I take it you have signed it?
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#11
Quote by boothy
I apologise mate, I wasn't quite sure, but on the internet I have taken sarcastic comments for literal meanings so many times I now just presume most things are sarcastic. Sorry 'bout that.

Anyway, I take it you have signed it?


I can't I'm not a citizen
if you can't be a good example
be a bad warning


Quote by aequitasveritas
lol, so i got a boner this one time and i was watching tv, so i decided to hump the little crack between the two cushions of the couch. yeah.


www.free-game-downloads.mosw.com
#12
Fair play mate. Just as long as the word is spread, and the government isn't allowed to slyly bring in laws under our nose with no objection to it.

Oh, and a second edit about verifying the signature by e-mail...
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#13
Signed it, why are they trying to stop live music? Because of the changes in the licensing laws?
#14
Quote by boothy
Well then mate, maybe you should click the link. It is an official law, an official petition on the Downing Street Website. Have a gander:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/list/open?sort=signers

Seventh down on the list mate.


Two things are sketchy here

1. There is a list of like 30 things on this petition only one of which involves music.

2. It is never made clear what we are petitining against in the music category

EDIT: Ok scratch number one. They were all links to different petitions. My mistake.
"That Hidde's a cool guy" -Abe Lincoln
"Hidde? Yeah we jam all the time" -Steve Vai
"Remember that time when burt jumped out of the tree and into the river? Good times!" -Jesus

So I heard you liek profiles?
Last edited by Hidde at Feb 13, 2007,
#15
Quote by BlackDacca
Signed it, why are they trying to stop live music? Because of the changes in the licensing laws?


Your guess is as good as mine mate. I won't go into the whole of the politcal spectrum but in short the government from Thatcher-era in particular has been spewing out laws, acts, bills - you name it - to restrict our freedoms in particular. Little laws have been abolished however, we are simply more and more on lockdown.

We are not yet a police state, and I'm not saying we will be - but unless the political debate changes in this counntry and people start waking up and giving a ****, well, I wouldn't like to imagine our civil rights and liberties in the next hundred years.

Music is targeted because anything which draws people together is a potential threat to the government.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#16
Quote by Hidde


2. It is never made clear what we are petitining against in the music category


I think that is because there is a limited number of words in the petition description. Well, I will fill it in as best I can for ya. Well, I'll just copy and paste but still.

http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_...ec_summary.htm

Points to remember about the new legislation:

a.. The unlicensed provision of even one musician is a potential
criminal offence (although some places are exempt, including places of public religious worship, royal palaces and moving vehicles). Max penalty: £20,000 fine and six months in prison.

b.. The rationale is to prevent noise, crime and disorder, to ensure public safety, and the protection of children from harm.

c.. But broadcast entertainment, including sport and music, is exempt - no matter where, and no matter how powerfully amplified.

d.. In the transition to the new regime, bars with jukeboxes, CD
players etc were automatically granted a license to play recorded
music; but their automatic entitlement to one or two musicians was abolished.

e.. For the first time, private performances raising money for charity are licensable.

f.. School performances open to friends and family are licensable -
they count as public performances.

g.. Under the old regime all premises licensed to sell alcohol for
consumption on the premises were automatically allowed up to two live musicians (the 'two in a bar rule').

h.. In December, DCMS published research confirming that about 40% of these have lost any automatic entitlement to live music as a result of the new Act:

'Very few establishments that wanted a new license were denied it, and many who were previously limited to 2-in-a-bar now have the ability to stage music with 2 or more musicians... This contrasts, of course, with the fact that 40% of establishments now have no automatic means of putting on live music (i.e. they would have to give a TEN).'

['Licensing Act 2003: The experience of smaller establishments in
applying for live music authorization'; December 2006', paragraphs
6.1.1 and 6.1.2 'Conclusions', p54; Caroline Callahan, Andy Martin,
Anna Pierce, Ipsos-MORI]

'TEN' stands for Temporary Event Notice - in effect a temporary
entertainment licence. Only 12 are allowed per premises per year.
They cost £21 each. See the full MORI reports on this site:

http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_...ec_summary.htm
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#18
Man. This government sure knows how to piss me off.

Quote by GiantRaven
That is the most bullshit thing i've ever heard

What possible reasoning do they have for that?


Money to pay for the epic blunders they've made with the rest of the cash they've leeched from us, maybe?
And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me: no, nor woman neither... nor women neither.
Last edited by Caustic at Feb 13, 2007,
#19
Quote by GiantRaven
That is the most bullshit thing i've ever heard

What possible reasoning do they have for that?


**** knows, at least I don't think it was publisiced. The law was passed with little or no media attention at all and would have remained unnoticed but some venue owners must have tried to publisize it. Very sly of the government, but they can't always keep us down.

Now it is circulating the internet and an official petition, the British music community as a whole have to do their best to publisize it and get as many signatures as possible. This is important for the future of the UK music scene, and also to prevent the death of the British working-mans pub as we know it (something under scrutiny through various laws for years).
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#20
signed


edit gonna sign the "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" as well utter bs
Last edited by Dr Grinwraith at Feb 13, 2007,
#21
Quote by Caustic
Man. This government sure knows how to piss me off.


You and me both. But at leasts it's one law we can do something about, and if it works, it restores that idea that we as a nation can overthrow things that we don't agree with and become a functioning democracy again.

Spread the word mate.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#22
If we could get this stickied it would help ten-fold. Who are the mods in the pit nowadays?

I know it's a far-cry, but it's a good cause.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#23
Hm. Bit of bumpage. C'mon folks, I woulda thought this would be an important issue among musicians hoping to gig.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#24
signed it.
but what reason do they have for doing this?
All the new laws they are trying to bring are a load of crap. Especially this one and the road tracking/road pricing ones.
Money hungry bastards.
#25
Online petitions weigh about as much as my guitarpick...
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#26
Quote by Kensai
Online petitions weigh about as much as my guitarpick...


Actually if you read my original post you woulda seen otherwise. The road-tax one meade headline news and the government geeza who proposed the law issued a statement effectively saying he would consider re-thinking a solution. This was solely because of an online petition on that very site.

I don't have much time for pessimists. That's like bending over and letting the government **** you up the arse.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#27
Quote by Dr Grinwraith
signed


edit gonna sign the "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" as well utter bs



Yes, Please sign the driving petition too, thats what has been on the radio, because it already has over a million signitures against it, the government want to have a 'pay-as-you-go driving law' which is b0llocks, considering I have 4-5 trips in my car every day (to work, home at lunch, back to work, home at end of day) I would get charged 4 times in a day, with barely doing 2 miles....its fecking ridiculous! (sp?)

And I have signed the music one too.
#28
Quote by buckethead_jr
signed it.
but what reason do they have for doing this?
All the new laws they are trying to bring are a load of crap. Especially this one and the road tracking/road pricing ones.
Money hungry bastards.


I'm afraid I can't answer the question that keeps coming up. Why they are doing it I don't know, but I do intend to find out. I might write to Labour and ask them to explain this crap.

We need a bit of optomism, but of hope - seems hard with todays society of the publics views meaning jack, but I think we can get it overturned.
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#29
Quote by boothy
We need a bit of optomism, but of hope - seems hard with todays society of the publics views meaning jack, but I think we can get it overturned.

Hopefully, i guess it's what we get for having Blaire for 9 years eh?
it's probably not going to get passed though...Can the government really see this working?
#30
It would be nice is someone informed us as to what these regulations actually are.... I don't believe I've actually read the law that you are opposing.
#31
Quote by boothy
Actually if you read my original post you woulda seen otherwise. The road-tax one meade headline news and the government geeza who proposed the law issued a statement effectively saying he would consider re-thinking a solution. This was solely because of an online petition on that very site.


Actually, I did. Yes, he said he would "re-consider" it. Big ****ing deal, he just said so to the newspapers.

And don't think that because one "goverment geeza" said he would re-consider it, you're going to have much luck. Sorry kid, but I've had some experience in these things and online petitions don't change that much.

Death threats on the other hand...

Good cause though

Quote by boothy
I don't have much time for pessimists. That's like bending over and letting the government **** you up the arse.


not really
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#32
Quote by Cyclotoolica
It would be nice is someone informed us as to what these regulations actually are.... I don't believe I've actually read the law that you are opposing.


I was going to edit my first post with this info, but Internet Explorer (I'm on holiday, I use Firefox at home of course) crashes when I try to edit my post! I'll repost it:


http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Research/research_by_dcms/live_music_exec_summary.htm

Points to remember about the new legislation:

a.. The unlicensed provision of even one musician is a potential
criminal offence (although some places are exempt, including places of public religious worship, royal palaces and moving vehicles). Max penalty: £20,000 fine and six months in prison.

b.. The rationale is to prevent noise, crime and disorder, to ensure public safety, and the protection of children from harm.

c.. But broadcast entertainment, including sport and music, is exempt - no matter where, and no matter how powerfully amplified.

d.. In the transition to the new regime, bars with jukeboxes, CD
players etc were automatically granted a license to play recorded
music; but their automatic entitlement to one or two musicians was abolished.

e.. For the first time, private performances raising money for charity are licensable.

f.. School performances open to friends and family are licensable -
they count as public performances.

g.. Under the old regime all premises licensed to sell alcohol for
consumption on the premises were automatically allowed up to two live musicians (the 'two in a bar rule').

h.. In December, DCMS published research confirming that about 40% of these have lost any automatic entitlement to live music as a result of the new Act:

'Very few establishments that wanted a new license were denied it, and many who were previously limited to 2-in-a-bar now have the ability to stage music with 2 or more musicians... This contrasts, of course, with the fact that 40% of establishments now have no automatic means of putting on live music (i.e. they would have to give a TEN).'

['Licensing Act 2003: The experience of smaller establishments in
applying for live music authorization'; December 2006', paragraphs
6.1.1 and 6.1.2 'Conclusions', p54; Caroline Callahan, Andy Martin,
Anna Pierce, Ipsos-MORI]

'TEN' stands for Temporary Event Notice - in effect a temporary
entertainment licence. Only 12 are allowed per premises per year.
They cost £21 each. See the full MORI reports on this site:

http://www.culture.gov.uk/Reference_library/Research/research_by_dcms/live_music_exec_summary.htm
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#33
Quote by Kensai
Actually, I did. Yes, he said he would "re-consider" it. Big ****ing deal, he just said so to the newspapers.

And don't think that because one "goverment geeza" said he would re-consider it, you're going to have much luck. Sorry kid, but I've had some experience in these things and online petitions don't change that much.

Death threats on the other hand...

Good cause though


I also have experience in these matters, and I admit, online petitions don't do much, not on their own.

However, with both the road-tax issue and this issue, there are paper based petitions gathering signatures aswell. These are added to this. I have seen petitions up to repeal this music licesnsing law in numerous pubs across my county alone.

Petitions to dramatically change a law don't often work. No matter how many people sign "legalise all drugs" it ain't gonna happen. But in the overal view of the government this law isn't a major issue, and they will be happy to show a bit of leeway if it means their (currently awful) reputation improves, however slightly. I doubt they will do it because of a democratic reasons, but it could put them in a bit of good light, which they need desperately.

I personally believe we could get this law repealed. A small step, but still, we aren't likely to change the entire political climate in one petition are we? I predict a riot...
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#34
A good 700 signatures in just over 24 hours! Not bad at all!
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#36
Has anyone else been publisicing this petition? Just we are getting a helluva lot of signatures lately, I can't imagine the are all from UG!
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#37
Quote by boothy
Has anyone else been publisicing this petition? Just we are getting a helluva lot of signatures lately, I can't imagine the are all from UG!

i have a bit, it even surprised me that non-musicians care as much for this as us musicians, i've gotten quite a lot of people to sign.
#38
Quote by buckethead_jr
i have a bit, it even surprised me that non-musicians care as much for this as us musicians, i've gotten quite a lot of people to sign.


Good on ya mate, yeah I think it generally affects anyone even slightly interersted in live music. It's building pretty fast. Keep up the good work!
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

#39
Bit of bumpin' threads? Aye!
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

Bill Hicks
R.I.P.

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