#1
Ok.. so a while ago after finishing my guitar build I decided I should make a tonebender MkII with PNP transistors by colorsound or solasound, whatever.

So anyways I had it made and sure enough it didnt work.
Anyways after a few months (now) I decided its foolish to waste 20 bucks on parts so I remade it. Sure enough... it doesnt work.. seems to be the same problem..

When I test it, no sound comes through.. although theres seems to be some kind of signal coming through the pedal because when I rattle the connections by the jacks I get some buzzing and noise.

It seems its shorted somewhere because I just noticed that the battery heats up super quick when plugged in. But I can't figure out where or is there another possibility.

http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII.php here is the schematic (at the top). So I dont have the switch attached yet because I might as well get it working first. Also I added the 1n4001 diode he talks about which he includes later in the pcb layout. Im pretty sure I wired it correctly (right of the 47 uf cap and grounded) unless these things have polarities in which case which end goes where and which end is which.

Im very new to the electronic schematics/wiring deal. My only experience was wiring my guitar but any asshole can do that. I know you guys cant tell me what I did wrong but is there any help out there .
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#2
Make sure the jack is wired correctly. The sleeve should go to ground and the tip to the in or out of the circuit. This causes problems for many people. It even caused many problems for me in the past.
#3
OK which is sleeve and which is tip. Tip is the one that is long? of which there is 2 on a stereo??

EDIT: OK I did some research on diodes, so the line on them indicates cathode (negative), too bad he doesnt have it in the schematic but rather in the PCB layout.
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII/mkIIlayout.gif

Am I correct that the cathode (negative gets the ground) and positive goes to the 47 uf cap?

I had it the other way before so i switched the diode and nothing really happened. Meaning there must be more than 1 **** up . BUT it may have done something because now when i turn one of the pots it changed the amount of noise coming from my amp.
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Last edited by al_ at Feb 20, 2007,
#4
First of all, take off that diode. It isnt needed. All it is for is to act as protection incase you have the power supply reversed, which I am almost positive now you have.

The circuit is positive (+) ground. This means that the positive DC voltage goes to where everything is grounded. Usually a circuit is grounded negative, but not in this case. Make sure you have it correct.
#5
Yeap i got all my positives grounded.. caps and transistors.

And ill go remove the diode to clear space up. i added it because he said it protects the transistors and since i didnt know from what i figured why not.

EDIT: diode is out

EDIT: OK for pots.. it doesnt matter whether 1 is ground and 3 to the circuit or vice versa does it?? Cause all that changes is which way you turn the pot.. correct?
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

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^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
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Last edited by al_ at Feb 20, 2007,
#6
Ok, It doesnt matter if lug 1 is connected where 3 is or vice versa. Just may make the control backwards (and then you can reverse it later).

Hmmm only thing I can think of is to take some pictures.

Thanks
Kerry
#7
Ok, hopefully you can see something from these, how do I upload pics here
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#9






Ignore all those useless stems you see, i just havent cut them because if imma remake this thing AGAIN, itd be a bitch.

Are these any good or you need some other pics.. i dont expect you to find anything though... unless your god .
By the way thank you for the interest you have shown in helping.

EDIT: o yea im aware thats a huge pcb relative to whats needed but last time i made it it was so small so there was no hope for me to do any circuit analysing etc. And I know wires are long, they will be shortened when its working.
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#10
Hmmm, good job not cutting the leads. I dont cut them in Germ. pedals until im absolutely happy. I am guessing you got those from Small Bear because I got those too. I have built the Tonebender MKII and Marshall Supafuzz (basically the same pedal but different sound).

I dont really see any problems from the picture. Dammm I really want to help you. Hmm... I really dont know. If you have a multimeter measure the voltages and there may be a problem there.
#11
Yes theyre from Small Bear and nothing significant found with voltages.

Im thinking I need to double check the transistors.. theres a possibility ive gotten confused.

SO on the transistors theres an arrow or little pointer indicating the end which needs to be grounded??? Or have I misread the schematic.. for example for Q1, does the arrow end go to the 5uf cap?

Thank you
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
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#14
Caps are good, positive is ground.

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/tran.htm

according to those diagrams, lead E has the peg and in the picture showing the PNP transistor close to the top, arrow faced away from E.

So on my schematic arrow faced away from ground so E (lead with peg) gets grounded.
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#16
No problem. Still no luck, i been reviewing the wiring and everything looks perfect. So I got band practice now but when i get back Ill probably start testing inidividual parts to see if a component may be malfunctioning.. I guess if that was the problem, transistors are the most likely candidate.
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#18
The shortage was from the diode that I had wired reversed, then I switched it which fixed the shortage and i dont have the diode anymore and theres no shortage.. but still a problem..
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#20
Well I didn't know any better, but I dont think they are fried.

When I checked my voltages there was a 2 volt drop from 7(the battery) to 5 (the circuit with battery). This makes sense right?
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#21
what!? You had a battery already drained to 7v then it drained to 5v already. Not right. Start with a new battery. Maybe that one was shorted or you have a short on the circuit.
#23
I gotta purchase some 9 volt batteries, I had a big box but I cant find em.

How can a battery be shorted itself?
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

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^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#24
^-By accident at the manufacturer. Inside a 9v theres basically 6 or so 1.5v batteried all connected together to get 9v. One may be connected wrong or something.
#25
OK, well ima go for band practice now.. ill snag a new battery and go from there.

Thanks again for the help.
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#26
Battery heat up is almost a sure sign of the power supply shorting out. I doubt it's an internal battery issue. Very unlikely. Go through and check it all again, in particular the main negative voltage rail and it's relation to ground. Measure resistance from ground to the neg. voltage rail.
Don't remove that power supply protection diode, it can save those pricey germanium transistors. If you install it correctly it's definitely not gonna have any problems...
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#27
Alright Ill stick the diode back in and check some stuff out. If I have no luck, my dad said hes gonna go over it on the conidtion that if he fixes it I gotta get my drivers license (ive held it off for almost 2 years )

Thank you.. btw I was listening to your vintage Germanium Fuzz clips and that is a nice sounding fuzz. I love it.

EDIT: O yea I thought I mentioned it but I guess not, when I fixed the diode (because at first I had it wired the wrong way) the battery no longer heated up so that probably fixed the shortage.. unless the 2 volt drop indicates a shortage as well.

Im thinking if I knew what causes a voltage drop, I could work backwards.. So do you guys know possible candidates for a voltage drop?

And Pink_Queen, what do you mean negative voltage rail relative to ground.. its the positives that are grounded in this schematic??
And resistance between negative volt and ground is about 12k ohms
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
Last edited by al_ at Feb 22, 2007,
#28
You're losing 2v just going from the battery to the board?

Track that down...
Is the diode in series with the power supply?
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#30
I said fixing the diode stopped the battery heating up. It still loses 2 volts, yes from the battery to the board.


thats how my pedal is wired
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#31
GRRRRRRR.......

So my dad found the problem, I had the transistors wired up wrong, the emitter was right but the other 2 leads were mixed up because I guess youre supposed to look at them from the bottom or what not.. anyways so once thats settled.. he breaks 1 of my transistors.. pulls the lead right off. . So tomorrow were on a hunt for germanium transistors but if we cant find it I may look around on ebay, theres germanium transistors for sale there occasionaly and whatnot.. and if worse comes to worse Ill have to order from smallbearelectornics again I guess .. You win some you lose some I guess
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#32
^-Order from Small Bear again. You will want the correct transistor for this build. Ask Steve at Small Bear for Q1/2/3 (whichever you need) for the Tonebender. You will need one with the good Hfe. And of course it has to be a PNP germanium transistor so it works good.

Kerry
#33
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII.php there the guy says they dont have to be the exact transistors, most types will do, as long as you can match the gain reasonably.. and obviously PNP
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out
#34
Yep, most types will do, but within that type you have no guarantees really when it comes to the specifics. You would need to buy a batch and then test them yourself for a suitable value. There is alot of variation in these things.

Trust me on this one dude, I've gone through 25 germaniums just to try to finish a fuzz face, and it's still not working out right. Granted, usually I can find 1-2 good ones in a set of 10, so it's partially just bad luck, but yeah. Good ones are rare.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#36
For a circuit like this, silicons will sound totally different.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#37
Ok then.. so you think they will sell me just Q1 at smallbearelec ?
If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is - Infinite.

http://thetravellingtrip.dmusic.com
^^ some sort of strange new slimey brew, its a psychedelic mess.
Check it out