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#1
I was wondering, since atheism originated from Western culture (in which Christianity is the main religion), why are certain people from the West so quick to write off the possibility of God's existence if they haven't explored other religions yet?

I've read a bit about Christianity and Western history...such as the Industrial revolution (which led to the Enlightenment period), Marxist theory, as well the clash between science and the Church eg regarding heliocentrism and Newtonian theories...that results in people questioning the authenticity of Christianity.

Ok fair enough, if most of you guys aren't that big on Christianity due to your intellectualism...what about other religions? Ever tried actually understanding them and critiquing them in the same way? Just to be on the safe side, to make sure that God REALLY doesn't exist.
Blah.
#3
I'm pretty sure people were believing in atheism during the enlightenment, several centuries ago, so no, it definitely did not originate in the west.
#4
Why are you saying you guys? We're not all atheist.

I've actually studied a lot about the religions of the world, and each has their own problems. But this is for the Religion Thread.
Get off my lawn.
#6
Quote by de7ilznite
I was wondering, since atheism originated from Western culture (in which Christianity is the main religion), why are certain people from the West so quick to write off the possibility of God's existence if they haven't explored other religions yet?

I've read a bit about Christianity and Western history...such as the Industrial revolution (which led to the Enlightenment period), Marxist theory, as well the clash between science and the Church eg regarding heliocentrism and Newtonian theories...that results in people questioning the authenticity of Christianity.

Ok fair enough, if most of you guys aren't that big on Christianity due to your intellectualism...what about other religions? Ever tried actually understanding them and critiquing them in the same way? Just to be on the safe side, to make sure that God REALLY doesn't exist.


It's not just Christianity; Judaism and Muslimism strike me in much the same way the Church does. Errant nonsense. It's just politically incorrect to criticize Jews, because of their history, and most Muslims I've encountered would as soon rip out your throat as hear you disgree with their beliefs.

--Red
"My idea is that there is music in the air, music all around us; the world is full of it, and you simply take as much as you require." - Edward Elgar
#7
You know, atheism isn't simply saying Christianity is wrong, not has it come from simply questioning Christianity. I am atheism by a logic that can be applied to ANY form of god or higher power (although actually I am sorta agnostic).
#8
If someone does not follow organised religion, okay. I personally defy anyone who thinks we are all here by "chance". Look around you. Yes, just look around you. Question existance, the world, the universe, the sun, the stars, the billy-milly-gilly-trillyons of atoms, everything; and ask if its here "just because". Doesn't quite add up does it.
#9
Quote by DorkusMalorkus
Exploring other religions, no matter how extensively, wouldn't make me change my scientific belief that the existence of a God is not possible.


+1

EDIT: Jackolas, yes, 'just because'. It's all a matter of coincidence, evolutions etc.
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
Last edited by raise_the_dead at Feb 24, 2007,
#10
Quote by raise_the_dead
+1


You just think it's all just here by chance and for no reason whatsoever?
#11
I do not believe in a Christian god. In fact, I am almost entirely sure that a divine being does not exist. I'm not going to rule out the possibility entirely, but I'm pretty doubtful. I don't consider myself and Atheist, nor an Agnostic. I do believe that Jesus existed, and I believe he was a very good man with wonderful, insightful teachings, but I don't believe there was anything divine about him, nor do I really follow his teachings.

I'm not that religious, as in, I don't practice any religion on a regular basis. I do believe in a very individualistic "path to enlightenment," in that i believe if I live by a code constructed around this idea, I will be more satisfied with my mindset and well-being. It's almost a mishsmash of non-theistic Buddhism, mysticism, and nature-centric Paganism.

That New-Age crap with the crystals is stupid, though.
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#12
I don't get it. So if i understand more religions, it is gonna disprove a God.
Well, congrats. Thats all i gotta say.
#13
Quote by de7ilznite
I was wondering, since atheism originated from Western culture (in which Christianity is the main religion), why are certain people from the West so quick to write off the possibility of God's existence if they haven't explored other religions yet?

I've read a bit about Christianity and Western history...such as the Industrial revolution (which led to the Enlightenment period), Marxist theory, as well the clash between science and the Church eg regarding heliocentrism and Newtonian theories...that results in people questioning the authenticity of Christianity.

Ok fair enough, if most of you guys aren't that big on Christianity due to your intellectualism...what about other religions? Ever tried actually understanding them and critiquing them in the same way? Just to be on the safe side, to make sure that God REALLY doesn't exist.



Alot of people that write off the possibility of god dont explore other religions because they dont think there is anything out there, period.
#14
Quote by Red.Washburn77
It's not just Christianity; Judaism and Muslimism strike me in much the same way the Church does. Errant nonsense. It's just politically incorrect to criticize Jews, because of their history, and most Muslims I've encountered would as soon rip out your throat as hear you disgree with their beliefs.

--Red


The thing is, most people today are judging Islam only through what is shown through the media (and these terrorists are only a minority anyway), which leads to people disregarding the religion altogether.

As a result, most of these people assume all Muslims are like this when they haven't actually critiqued the Koran in its entirety. You might be surprised, if you give it a shot.

btw, nobody calls it Muslimism.
Blah.
#16
Quote by Jackolas
You just think it's all just here by chance and for no reason whatsoever?


Yep.
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
#17
Quote by Red.Washburn77
It's not just Christianity; Judaism and Muslimism strike me in much the same way the Church does. Errant nonsense. It's just politically incorrect to criticize Jews, because of their history, and most Muslims I've encountered would as soon rip out your throat as hear you disgree with their beliefs.

--Red


You mean Islam?
Also, it is politically correct to criticise Jews!? Where the hell do you live?
Oh, and nice stereotypical view on Muslims.
#18
Quote by Jackolas
If someone does not follow organised religion, okay. I personally defy anyone who thinks we are all here by "chance". Look around you. Yes, just look around you. Question existance, the world, the universe, the sun, the stars, the billy-milly-gilly-trillyons of atoms, everything; and ask if its here "just because". Doesn't quite add up does it.



and then it says in the bible that god is almighty and loves men
and then there's also the tsunami in asia

so it doesn't really add up either not for me
#19
Every religion that has a God is bullshit and made of hypocrites.

God is all-loving and all-forgiving, yet he'll send you away to hell if you don't love him. Don't worry though, because he'll forgive any of your sins. He'll still send you to hell if you sin though... Wait a minute.

And then there's the "My God gave me this land, don't make me shoot you off of it!"

The only religion I support is Satanism because they don't really worship anyone or anything (they're not followers of satan, for the ignorant people out there.)
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#20
btw, I don't believe the Big Bang theory stating that the entire universe created ITSELF from absolutely nothing. No one can create something out of nothing (let alone creating itself), it's just not possible.
Blah.
#21
Originally Posted by Jackolas
You just think it's all just here by chance and for no reason whatsoever?


No, we kinda prefer searching for answers rather than going oh im too lazy to find out how any of this happened so lets make a book explaining it.
Kind of an ignorant statement, but it is the foundation to my belief.
#22
Quote by Johnny Vodka
and then it says in the bible that god is almighty and loves men
and then there's also the tsunami in asia

so it doesn't really add up either not for me


True - but who says that the God/something higher is recorded in any way by humans?
#23
Quote by Jackolas
You just think it's all just here by chance and for no reason whatsoever?

No, it isn't all by chance at all. The universe was created by whatever right? No one knows how, but thats beside the point right now. The complex life forms around us, the atoms, the molecules, the cells, the chemical reactions that make this world work aren't the creation of intelligent design or whatever you want to call it. It is the product of millions of years. Simple life forms evolved into complex ones. The complexity of chemistry is just a bunch of reactions and it just so happens that everything on Earth ended up sustaining life. Everything around us adapted to work so well because of the conditions of Earth. Not because some God created it all to work perfectly.
#24
Quote by de7ilznite
The thing is, most people today are judging Islam only through what is shown through the media (and these terrorists are only a minority anyway), which leads to people disregarding the religion altogether.

As a result, most of these people assume all Muslims are like this when they haven't actually critiqued the Koran in its entirety. You might be surprised, if you give it a shot.

btw, nobody calls it Muslimism.


It's still considered politically incorrect to criticize any non-Pagan, non-Christian religion.

And btw, it's not wrong to call it Muslimism, the proper term simply slipped from my grasp for a moment.

--Red
"My idea is that there is music in the air, music all around us; the world is full of it, and you simply take as much as you require." - Edward Elgar
#25
Quote by de7ilznite
btw, I don't believe the Big Bang theory stating that the entire universe created ITSELF from absolutely nothing. No one can create something out of nothing (let alone creating itself), it's just not possible.


So where did God come from?

From what did God create the universe?
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
#26
Quote by Jackolas
You just think it's all just here by chance and for no reason whatsoever?


How is that any harder to believe than some man sitting up in the clouds who made the earth in six days?

We would laugh at somebody if they told us they still believed in zeus or Aphrodite.
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#27
Every religion that has a God is bullshit and made of hypocrites.

God is all-loving and all-forgiving, yet he'll send you away to hell if you don't love him. Don't worry though, because he'll forgive any of your sins. He'll still send you to hell if you sin though... Wait a minute.

And then there's the "My God gave me this land, don't make me shoot you off of it!"

The only religion I support is Satanism because they don't really worship anyone or anything (they're not followers of satan, for the ignorant people out there.)


Amen.
#28
So, in oder to be certain that God dosesn't exist, I have to explore all religions? What the fuck for? Religions are about blind faith, none provide any evidence that God exists, all they have are insubstantial claims that people are expected to believe "just like that".

Actual proof of a God would have to come from outside any religion, from cosmology, astronomy, physics, or simply through observation. The fact that no such evidence has arisen, and will most likely never arise, is sufficient to state that God doesn't exist, regardless of what any group of people feel.

And wrong thread.
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Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#29
Quote by chubbychunks

Oh, and nice stereotypical view on Muslims.


Well, if you read his post again, you'd see that he said the Muslims that he's encountered. His simply stated his observations of Muslims he's come into personal contact with.
#30
Quote by GarageGuitarist
I do believe that Jesus existed, and I believe he was a very good man with wonderful, insightful teachings, but I don't believe there was anything divine about him, nor do I really follow his teachings.


Islam accepts Jesus as the second last prophet before Muhammad and claims he was a mortal and not divine. What about this possibility?
Blah.
#31
Quote by de7ilznite
Islam accepts Jesus as the second last prophet before Muhammad and claims he was a mortal and not divine. What about this possibility?


Sounds reasonable.
#32
I just hate the idea of institionalised belief full stop. Religions do serve purpose perhaps to show people different ideas they should consider (as the threadstarter said) but at the end of the day, you should make your own belief.
I do not believe in God because of something I discovered to be called determinism. I came up with that theory on my own and it fits all my logic and knowledge so I accept it. If someone thought the same simply because they had been told it I wouldn't respect them even though it is the idea.
Sorry, that was sort of rambling...
#33
So, in oder to be certain that God dosesn't exist, I have to explore all religions? What the fuck for? Religions are about blind faith, none provide any evidence that God exists, all they have are insubstantial claims that people are expected to believe "just like that".

Actual proof of a God would have to come from outside any religion, from cosmology, astronomy, physics, or simply through observation. The fact that no such evidence has arisen, and will most likely never arise, is sufficient to state that God doesn't exist, regardless of what any group of people feel.

And wrong thread.

If there is some kind of divine deity, do you really think that he could be proven and observed in laboratory? It makes no sense to me that one would be able to scientifically prove god using science, because this god would have created science. He would be outside of science.

Does that make sense?
#34
How is that any harder to believe than some man sitting up in the clouds who made the earth in six days?

We would laugh at somebody if they told us they still believed in zeus or Aphrodite.


I'm totally with you here.
But the reason they can believe it, is because at around the 0 year mark people were fed all of this. People were completely stupid back then. So, once they were into this religion, they told their children, who you were scared of getting punished. That just follows us all the way to now. Unfortunately, people are still ignorant.
#35
Quote by raise_the_dead
So where did God come from?

From what did God create the universe?


Good question. Any believer of religion will tell you only God can create something out of nothing.

It drives you crazy just thinking about this kinda thing eh.
Blah.
#36
Quote by SilentNighteer
I'm totally with you here.
But the reason they can believe it, is because at around the 0 year mark people were fed all of this. People were completely stupid back then. So, once they were into this religion, they told their children, who you were scared of getting punished. That just follows us all the way to now. Unfortunately, people are still ignorant.




I've never thought of it like that and I'd dare not say that to a religious person but thats genius. Or at least, amusing!
#37
Religon thread

Quote by de7ilznite
I was wondering, since atheism originated from Western culture



Many buddhists are atheist.
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#38
I think life is hard enough without worrying about going to hell.
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#39
Quote by Jackolas
True - but who says that the God/something higher is recorded in any way by humans?



sorry I'm not quite sure I get your point
could you make it clearer ? (English is not my first language) thanks
#40
Quote by meh!
Many buddhists are atheist.


There are quite a number of Jewish and Muslim atheists too, for that matter.
Blah.
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