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#1
I am a firm believer of evolution, but there is one thing that does trouble me. If organisms change over time, then where are the transitions between the ones that came before and the ones that came after? It seems like there are only the extremely simple organisms alive today and the end result.
#4
Because evolution probably happens in distinct groups. When part of the group has traits that are advantageous, the other part of the group dies out. Simple as that.

I'm not sure how you can say that only the simple organisms and the complex organisms are all that exists. There are so many inbetweens it's not even funny
#5
the middle ones died out when evolutionary lines reached the "final" product

...from lack of expertise.

i have a PDh in biological evolology so i'm probably correct, but i'll check with my colleagues tomorrow.

XD
#6
Quote by Toasty25000
I am a firm believer of evolution, but there is one thing that does trouble me. If organisms change over time, then where are the transitions between the ones that came before and the ones that came after? It seems like there are only the extremely simple organisms alive today and the end result.


What do you mean there are only simple organisms alive today?! Is the human body "simple" to you?

As for changes and transitions, you can clearly see them in that children are different genetically from their parents. Wether that's beneficial or not is a complicated matter which depends on both phenotype and the surrounding environmental/climate conditions.

But you won't notice any radical changes in your lifetime. It may take tens of thousands of years before you could notice a competely different species, because the changes that occur by random reproduction and natural selection are very small and gradual, so it takes a very long time for them to accumulate into an overall dramatic change.
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#8
How come?
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#9
You need to work on reading comprehension
he clearly states that (in his head) there are only the simple organisms, and the really complex organisms
#10
^ no, he very vaguely states that, if at all.
"there are only the extremely simple organisms alive today and the end result." end result... of what? You can't leave the phrase hanging like that.

"where are the transitions between the ones that came before and the ones that came after?"

the transitions between organisms that came before... something, and the ones that came after those that came before perfectly clear...
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

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#11
No, it's pretty clear. The 'end result' obviously means the more complicated beings, the 'end result' of lots of evolution.
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#12
there are plenty-
ameobas-simple
monkeys-in between
humans-the pinnacle if 4 billion years of evolution
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#13
what?
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#14
extremly simple organisms? yeah cos the human body only has like 4 cells duh!! (sarcasm)

even a mouse has like a billion cells in its body
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#15
he didnt say humans are simple,he said that there are only extremely simple organisms and extremely complex ones
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Tell me what nation on this earth, was not born of tragedy-Primordial
#16
^ yes, and he's talking crap.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#18
of course there's in between organisms, thats why theres more than 1 species on earth....? watch discovery channel or something, for christs sake.
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#19
I don't really know what you mean. But there is this ape that i saw some special on. It walked just like a human and did things humans did(it could cook and shit). It could almost talk too.
#20
Quote by Eggmond
there are plenty-
ameobas-simple
monkeys-in between
humans-the pinnacle if 4 billion years of evolution


Monkeys are exceedingly complex. A better example of an "in between" organism would be something like a siphonophore.

Edit: ^ If it could cook then it'd been trained to. No animals other than humans cook their food.
#21
I know what you're asking I think.
You look at a Compsognathus and call it a Compsognathus, then you look at an Albatross, and you call it an Albatross, you wonder how (generally speaking) one got to another, and where is the middle creature that would show the change, right?
Every fossil we find is technically a transitional fossil, literally speaking. From my previous example, a Compy to an Albatross would have something like an Archaeopteryx in between as a transitional fossil. It's a basic example I used and I bet none of them are technically related but just to show what I mean...

....Did that make sense?
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Last edited by AngilasGuy at Feb 25, 2007,
#22
this is the stupidest thread ever.

pay attention in biology next time.
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#23
There is no "end result"
Evolution has no plan, it's entirely situational. Whatever trait benefits an organism at a specific moment in time is the one that's favored. Organisms may get simpler or more complex over time, depending on what is best in that particular environment.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
Quote by omgnowaii
this is the stupidest thread ever.

pay attention in biology next time.


+1

Good call.
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#25
+1 to the last 5 posts.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
Quote by AngilasGuy
I know what you're asking I think.
You look at a Compsognathus and call it a Compsognathus, then you look at an Albatross, and you call it an Albatross, you wonder how (generally speaking) one got to another, and where is the middle creature that would show the change, right?
Every fossil we find is technically a transitional fossil, literally speaking. From my previous example, a Compy to an Albatross would have something like an Archaeopteryx in between as a transitional fossil. It's a basic example I used and I bet none of them are technically related but just to show what I mean...

....Did that make sense?


^This has been the only response so far that has answered the question. It's my fault if I worded the question in a strange way, my mistake.


But to the people who told me to pay attention in class, is that to say you remember every last thing you learned while in school? I know it's UG, but I thought people weren't attacked for trying to learn something.
#27
Quote by Toasty25000
I know it's UG, but I thought people weren't attacked for trying to learn something.


How wrong you were

Did you ever consider the simple ones are the end result? of a different group or whatever you want to call it obviously.
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#28
5 types of organisms listed from simplest to most complex, and from earliest to most recent

Bacteria - 3-4 billion years old (The Earth is only 4.5 billion years old)

Protista - 2 billion years old

Plant - 440 million years old

Fungi - 400 million years old (I may have plant and fungi mixed up)

Animals - 300 million years old


I'm thinking this should explain some things for everybody. Simple lifeforms appeared on earth first, and evolved into more complex beings... some people on here seem a bit confused.
#29
^of course simple lifeforms appeared first, but the fact that over time new, more advanced organisms evolve doesnt show that evolution always leads from simple organisms to complex organisms, although of course life must have started with simple organisms. evolution is primarily a response to environmental factors, and its easy to see from the mass extinctions of the past that the most complex organisms usually are the first to die off. the simplest organisms with the simplest needs become the fittest and most adaptable during extreme environmental changes.

however, as the environment stabilizes again after these mass extinctions some of those simpler organisms that survived are able to take advantage of the stable conditions. this involves becoming more efficient at living in the new environment and developing new traits to take advantage of it, both of which usually involve a higher degree of complexity.

also, look at organisms which have lost certain traits because of evolution. fish and amphibians in caves usually had sight at one time. however, because eyes require extra energy and they dont actually need to see in their environment, they no longer develop eyes. this is actually the simplification of an organism due to evolution.


to the threadstarter, there are lots of "in-between" organisms, both living and dead. look up any group of organisms on wikipedia and no doubt you will find that the scientific community has a lot of debate over whether to classify certain organisms in a group as new species or just variants of existing species. in essence many organisms exist in a sort of gray area between two others and they must be examined to see where they fit best.
Last edited by vantage4 at Feb 25, 2007,
#30
Quote by Toasty25000
I am a firm believer of evolution, but there is one thing that does trouble me. If organisms change over time, then where are the transitions between the ones that came before and the ones that came after? It seems like there are only the extremely simple organisms alive today and the end result.

There are transitions, in the form of fossils. Every species is a transition...it's not like Pokemon where at level 25 you change into a new species, but the process is gradual in the form of species changing over millions of years.
لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
#31
ook, so now i *think* I know what you meant. Hopefully I understood correctly this time.

And the fact is, you can't exactly divide the species of plants and animals of today into "simple" and "complex".

There exist creatures today that haven't changed so much from their ancestors, that are living proof of the transitions between the different stages of "complexity".

Example: single cell creatures at some point in the process of evolution grouped together into colonies of some sort, and gave birth to the most primitive multi-cellular creatures, that were just cells grouped together, without any particular structure or organs. Some of these creatures evolved into more complex ones that had primitive organs, others remained relatively unchanged and modern versions of them exist today. (I'll be damned if I remember what they're called, they have those latin/greek-inspired names that only biologists remember).

So here's an example of a creature that's neither very simple, nor what you refer to as an "end result", and reflects one of the stages in the evolution of more complex plants and animals: single-cell creatures grouping together as a starting point for the development of organs and consequently more complex organisms.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#32
Looks like the "liberals" that planted the fossils didnt cover their tracks very well. Its nice to see some people uncovering the truth and stepping into the light. Not everyone has to be brainwashed, but sadly it seems like a majority of UG is. Its simple logic folks evolution is a lie.
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#34
Quote by cubedeathk
Looks like the "liberals" that planted the fossils didnt cover their tracks very well. Its nice to see some people uncovering the truth and stepping into the light. Not everyone has to be brainwashed, but sadly it seems like a majority of UG is. Its simple logic folks evolution is a lie.


You better be joking.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#36
^ if he goes on like this, at some point he'll actually start believing what he's saying, and then the only sensible cure for him would be lobotomy.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#37
evolution didnt happen
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#38
Quote by Dirge Humani
Ignore cubedeathk. Please. He does this in every religious or scientific thread.


Please ignore this man, he is unable to refute my leaders infallible evidence, so he relys on childish things like this, instead of trying to come up with a logical argument.

Wheres the evidence for evolution? I fail to see any reference to it in the Bible.
George W. Bush for President 2012

We can do it if we work together!
#39
Quote by cubedeathk
Please ignore this man, he is unable to refute my leaders infallible evidence, so he relys on childish things like this, instead of trying to come up with a logical argument.

Wheres the evidence for evolution? I fail to see any reference to it in the Bible.



Despite my supreme dislike for your trolling, that remark got a chuckle out of me.


Cheers.
#40
Wait, I just thought - all animals are 'in betweens', there are no final products. Everything will just keep on evolving.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
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