Ok, so yesterday I was in my algebra class, and a kid asked if you could divide 0 by 6. The teacher replied saying "You can't get something out of nothing.". So which leads me to question either all of the Universe creation theories such as the Big Bang or Religions and the mathematics system. According to the mathematics system, you can't create something out of nothing (if I understand correctly), which would mean that the Big Bang would be impossible because it says the energy was alway there and that goes for God always being there also. The energy would've had to be made by something else and that would also have to be made by something else. And in a religious understanding (Christian?), God was always there and created the universe, but wouldn't something have to have created God? So either the Mathematics system would have to be wrong or the theories would, wouldn't they?

Sorry if I have some of these ideas misunderstood, I'm not very deep into the subjects yet.
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god

No, it's completely different. You can't use simple logic to say how the universe was created. What if it was always existant, you can't just say there was nothing before there was something.

Although anything would be possible.
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Sorry for trying to make a serious thread in UG?
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god

God, by definition, is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question ‘Who created God?’ is illogical, just like ‘To whom is the bachelor married?’

So a more sophisticated questioner might ask ‘If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?’ Here are a few reasons.

1.Everything which has a beginning has a cause.
2.The universe has a beginning.
3.Therefore the universe has a cause.

Note I expressed 'which has a beginning' in bold. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as I will show you. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause. In addition, Einstein’s general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. So time itself would have begun along with matter and space. Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in tim. God is ‘the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity’ (Is. 57:15). Therefore He doesn’t have a cause.

In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever, otherwise it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible. So the obvious corollary is that the universe began a finite time ago with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.

Now, what if someone accepts that the universe had a beginning, but not that it needs a cause? But it is self-evident that things that begin have a cause—no-one really denies it in his heart. All science and history would collapse if this law of cause and effect were denied. So would all law enforcement, if the police didn’t think they needed to find a cause for a stabbed body or a burgled house. Also, the universe cannot be self-caused—nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity.
I dont know how the Einsteins and Hawkins missed that one, they could have saved themselves so much time if they had just done a simple division
Tears in waves, minds on fire
Quote by andrew12398
Ok, so yesterday I was in my algebra class, and a kid asked if you could divide 0 by 6. The teacher replied saying "You can't get something out of nothing.". So which leads me to question either all of the Universe creation theories such as the Big Bang or Religions and the mathematics system. According to the mathematics system, you can't create something out of nothing (if I understand correctly), which would mean that the Big Bang would be impossible because it says the energy was alway there and that goes for God always being there also. The energy would've had to be made by something else and that would also have to be made by something else. And in a religious understanding (Christian?), God was always there and created the universe, but wouldn't something have to have created God? So either the Mathematics system would have to be wrong or the theories would, wouldn't they?

Sorry if I have some of these ideas misunderstood, I'm not very deep into the subjects yet.

heres the thing, im religious so i can answer this --'(yeah i know, shitty way to justify it, but its a snake eating its tail of an argument)

with all the beliefs in God comes a belief that there is nothing before God because God created time and space as WE know it, because WE perceive something a certain way doesnt mean that it is the way God sees it. there is nothing to suggest that we can remotely begin to try to consider to possibility that there might be some way that we could MAYBE see things as they really are.

Revelation 1:8 says "I am Alpha and Omega," says Jehovah God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."

i have every reason to believe that, God has yet to let me down...so i really do believe what is said there.

the fact that the laws of mathematics defy all other theories only strengthens the possibility of a higher being, ya no?

EDIT: I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, but Jehovah really is God's own name. though sometimes it's written Yahweh, because Hebrew has no vowels and it's written YHWH . but yeah thats the way God as well as his followers refer to the Almighty
Last edited by FeatherBreeze at Feb 27, 2007,
their would always have to be something or else their would no such thing as nothing. without movement their is no drag ect,ect. their couldnt have possibley been nothing. maybe the bigg bang was caused by collected heat energy (i dunno, brainstorming here)
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God has yet to let me down...

hahahahahaha
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*sniffs* i smell bullЅhit

how is quoting from a book gonna prove a theory?

in books animals can talk

oh
so could most of the animals in the bible
now

can you talk to animals? :]
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How can someone calculate all the energy in the universe and claim that it is decreasing? This is not the only solar system in the universe, there could and most likely be an infinite amount of plantes, galaxies, stars, and so on. Learning how this one was created doesn't even begin to explain how everything was created, if at all.
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oh
so could most of the animals in the bible

gimme some animals that talked, there isnt "MOST" as much as there is a few that were needed for a purpose.

by quoting the book im only pointing to a relavent source, the only relavent source in this argument
Quote by Pink_Floyd89
How can someone calculate all the energy in the universe and claim that it is decreasing? This is not the only solar system in the universe, there could and most likely be an infinite amount of plantes, galaxies, stars, and so on. Learning how this one was created doesn't even begin to explain how everything was created, if at all.

That's true, technology has yet to discover all of the universe, if there even is an "all of the universe".
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god

This argument is null, you can't take universal terms and rules and apply them to pre-universe. It's VOID
Anybody who claims they know the answers to these questions are obviously biased and ignorant. The best way to find out about the universe is to look into each theory and create your own explination, because really, it could end up being unexplainable or something that just completely breaks the thought of logic.

I mean our logic might not be logic at all, for example: I see someone try to fly off a bridge and they splat on the ground. I would think it's logical that people are not able to fly, but what if it's only "logic" because our brain cannot process it or something like that.

I can't talk about this right now, it's usually a conversation I have while stoned or drunk... or both.
You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so when they turn their back on you, you get a chance to put the knife in.
The universe is infinite. It has always been, in whatever quantity and state. The Big Bang took a lot of very little, and turned it into a lot more. The energy was not created, it was expanded and transfered.
Quote by Pink_Floyd89
Anybody who claims they know the answers to these questions are obviously biased and ignorant. The best way to find out about the universe is to look into each theory and create your own explination, because really, it could end up being unexplainable or something that just completely breaks the thought of logic.

I mean our logic might not be logic at all, for example: I see someone try to fly off a bridge and they splat on the ground. I would think it's logical that people are not able to fly, but what if it's only "logic" because our brain cannot process it or something like that.

I can't talk about this right now, it's usually a conversation I have while stoned or drunk... or both.

That seems logical, but if that's what you're saying, it's only what I can understand that's the logical part of it?

*hands you a beer*

Quote by skeptopotamus
The universe is infinite. It has always been, in whatever quantity and state. The Big Bang took a lot of very little, and turned it into a lot more. The energy was not created, it was expanded and transfered.

So you're saying that if we had a big bang, that the universe would expand again? How would it happen though? Wouldn't there have to be a big bang before the first one?
Quote by Zinnie
god placed the fossils in earth to confuse the humans into thinking that earth is older than it actually is, therefore, making men try and think outside the box....

just kidding, there is no god

"True knowledge comes when you accept the fact that you know nothing."

You guys can argue and argue over this but in the end you are not going to get an answer.
Quote by Masamune
"True knowledge comes when you accept the fact that you know nothing."

You guys can argue and argue over this but in the end you are not going to get an answer.

do you even know who was the first to say that?

i shouldnt say first

the one credited for that thought?
maybe you can divide 0 by 6, except we havent yet found a way to do so, and dont forget that the maths and number system was thought up by people, so there could of course be flaws. there could be a logical way for nothing to turn into something, we just havent discovered a way yet.
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do you even know who was the first to say that?

i shouldnt say first

the one credited for that thought?

I have no idea who said it...at least I have it in quotes so I'm not taking credit for it..
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I have no idea who said it...at least I have it in quotes so I'm not taking credit for it..

i aint a'dissin ya man
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Quote by andrew12398
Ok, so yesterday I was in my algebra class, and a kid asked if you could divide 0 by 6. The teacher replied saying "You can't get something out of nothing."

That answer, coming from a math teacher, is stupid. Your math teacher is stupid. Go to another class or something.
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Quote by andrew12398
So you're saying that if we had a big bang, that the universe would expand again? How would it happen though? Wouldn't there have to be a big bang before the first one?

I'm no physicist, but as I under stand it, the chances of another big bang happening is unbelievably small. Billions of years from now. Before the 'Big Bang' as we refer to it today, the matter in the universe simply was there. It is possible that there have been other periods in the universe's history just like this, but I don't know. Shit- this could be the first time in the history of the universe when there has been life, it could be the hundredth.
That answer, coming from a math teacher, is stupid. Your math teacher is stupid. Go to another class or something.

True. Its extremely crude, but it is true.

And why does there have to be a beginning of the Universe? Just because humans cant properly comprehend infinity, doesnt mean it cant happen. Its just an endless chain of the universe exploding, and imploding, over and over again, endlessly. Thats what I think, anyway. Makes sense, and obeys the conservation of energy laws. It was never created, because it always existed.
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Imagine a space so small that it would make an atom look enormous packed into it is everything that exists! This is a singularity! the gravitational pull of itself has managed to compact it down! protons crushed into protons, Quarks (the particle which makes a proton) crushed into quarks. Its natural for you to imagine it as a kind of pregnant dot in a sea of black but wrong outside the singularity there is nothing then in a moment of glory the universe begins to expand doubling in size every 0.(63 zeros)1 seconds! heat is created enough to create the lighter elements known as helium and the noble gases! in a mere second the universe has acheived heavenly dimension its already a milion light years across and still growing! soon millions upon millions of supernovae occur creating the heavier element such as iron and plutonium!! There you have it the entire of creation created in less than the amount of time it takes to make a sandwhich

That is an extremely simplified 'big bang' theory there was no bang just a massive expansion! i happen to believe that this universe is just one of the millions that have occurered over lengths of time that are impossible to consieve in a collapsing and reforming state! and in the end gravity may be a tad to strong and bring the universe imploding back in itself but thats the way things are

meh thats all im writing
Quote by Masamune
"True knowledge comes when you accept the fact that you know nothing."

You guys can argue and argue over this but in the end you are not going to get an answer.

Surely that's some sort of paradox, or something like that, cause when you have true knowledge, from accepting you know nothing, you know something, which means you don't know nothing, with means you can't truely accept that you know nothing, which means you have true knowledge, etc...

Am I wrong?
Quote by andrew12398

So you're saying that if we had a big bang, that the universe would expand again? How would it happen though? Wouldn't there have to be a big bang before the first one?

the concept of "before" can't exist without a universe, so the question of what was before the universe can't be answered. It's just as meaningful a question as "what's the difference between a duck?"

your algebra teacher's stupid, though. 0 ÷ 6 = 0.

6 ÷ 0 has no real answer, but....
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^ wow i actually almost missed that hahaha iforgot your a genious

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