Page 1 of 28
#1
I am currently reading a book entitled Socrates' Cafe. This book is for inquiring minds. It teaches how to approach philosophy and questioning. Basicly, I'm here to establish the Official UG Socrates' Cafe.

This thread is for philosphers of any kind. Anyone who has a question pertaining to philosophy and/or the art of questioning is embraced here. You will probably leave with more questions than answers!

RULES:

1) NO Flaming of any kind, or else you will be reported and preferably banned from the thread all together.
2) No "What's the meaning of life?" questions unless you are completely honest and elaborate on the question.
3) Anyone who says something without elaboration will be questioned, if they choose to ignore the question then they will be ignored.
4) Almost any question is welcome.
5) Anyone is welcome.

So, without further ado, I welcome you to UG's Socrates' Cafe. Now...talk!
Last edited by Michelangelo193 at Jul 5, 2007,
#2
Is money really the cause of all evil? Because it solves alot of problems worldwide, but seems to cause alot with greed. What I'm really asking is what would happen if there was no money and we were hunter / forragers again?
JoNo
xXx
#4
Quote by *rockstarjono*
Is money really the cause of all evil? Because it solves alot of problems worldwide, but seems to cause alot with greed. What I'm really asking is what would happen if there was no money and we were hunter / forragers again?
JoNo
xXx

We would use objects as currency, or work as currency.
لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
#5
Is money really the cause of all evil? Because it solves alot of problems worldwide, but seems to cause alot with greed. What I'm really asking is what would happen if there was no money and we were hunter / forragers again?
JoNo
xXx

I would probably say that money in itself is not evil, as it can be used for good or bad. In regard to your hunter/foragers question, even if we did not use money, there would still be trade in general (direct goods for good kind of thing). In this case, there would still be greedy people who use the system (although it would be a much simpler system) to get their own profit.
Main Gear:
Cort G-Series 254
Takamine EG345C 12-String
Fender Squier P-Bass

Peavey Classic 50
Laney HCM65B

$75 Junk Drums w/ B8 Hats/Crash/Ride
#6
I think with regards to money, pschology comes into it, because all humans are greedy. Self-preservation is natural. And if we didn't want money, we'd steal other possessions.
#7
Anything can be both good and evil. money in the hands of a good person will usally benefit society however a person who is evil will more than likely do something to hurt humanity. this doesnt apply to just money though. anything has the power to build or destroy.
#8
money is simply an object with a standardised value. one works, is given money in return, and trades the money for goods of equal value to the money.

the "evil" side of money occurs when people use unethical methods of obtaining the money or spend the money on unethical ventures. money itself is not the issue - it's what people do with it.
#9
Quote by mulletman500
I think with regards to money, pschology comes into it, because all humans are greedy. Self-preservation is natural. And if we didn't want money, we'd steal other possessions.


Thanks to Nietzsche I no longer believe that self-preservation is natural, but as he says "A living thing seeks above all to discharge it's strength - life itself is will-to-power".
That actually makes a lot of sense, as there have been countless people sacrificing themselves for a perceived "greater good" or solely for one other person, but everyone pushes on to gain power, to exert theirselves, to better them.

In regards to the question about money.
I agree with what everyone else says, money would just be replaced with some form of goods or labour.
It's in our very nature to be evil, no matter how some people like to argue it.
Quote by Smokey Amp
Quote by gunner_011
wat song is it lol satriani??

Don't disgrace Satriani like that.
#10
Quote by downontheupside
Anything can be both good and evil. money in the hands of a good person will usally benefit society however a person who is evil will more than likely do something to hurt humanity. this doesnt apply to just money though. anything has the power to build or destroy.


Well then what constitutes evil? Every one makes mistakes that could be considered 'evil tactics'.
#11
I think evil is not so much a truth as an opinion.
There are some truly warped people who will see some sick things as good, and I'm willing to bet Hitler thought he was doing the right thing.
So many religious fanatics that have killed or even caused wars are viewed as evil, but good to them.
Quote by Smokey Amp
Quote by gunner_011
wat song is it lol satriani??

Don't disgrace Satriani like that.
#12
unfortunately a lot of people base their opinions on what is "evil" on the beliefs of others, such as the bible, and decide that abortion, homosexuality and eating pork are all grave violations of what they maintain to be God's law.
#13
Quote by superioddity
I think evil is not so much a truth as an opinion.
There are some truly warped people who will see some sick things as good, and I'm willing to bet Hitler thought he was doing the right thing.
So many religious fanatics that have killed or even caused wars are viewed as evil, but good to them.


I feel the same way. For example, so many Christians (BTW, I am Christian) support the making of the Middle East into a glass parking lot for the benefit of Israel. So what's the difference between that and 911? Then they go on the defensive and say that you support al-Qaeda because you don't support America. Complete anti-logic.

As far as evil, I agree, it all depends on opinion.
#14
Evil backwards is Live. so is to live is be Evil? deffiently some sort of sybolism there, ponder that

#15
What is the purpose of life if we are to die eventually ? Why do we evolve in order to live if we are to die eventually? Since were all part of an ecosystem that supports this planet, why does earth want to survive ?
#16
Quote by metaldud536
What is the purpose of life if we are to die eventually ? Why do we evolve in order to live if we are to die eventually? Since were all part of an ecosystem that supports this planet, why does earth want to survive ?


I know that if I never died I wouldn't have initiative to make something of myself in my time on earth.
#17
As Superioddity said, Evil is an opinion. What we regard as evil is only evil because society tells us it is.

For example:

Say person #1 grew up near a slaughterhouse, with parents that were butchers. You would grow up around killing animals, so it would be perfectly normal.
Person #2 grows up with 2 hippies for parents, spends their childhood at animal rights demonstrations, and is a vegetarian. Person #2 would consider Person #1 evil because they have drastically different opinions, and they see what person #1 grew up with, and so sees it as normal, as evil.

Completely simplified, but in essence that is what "evil" is.
#18
Quote by Michelangelo193
I know that if I never died I wouldn't have initiative to make something of myself in my time on earth.


I like that response. But what is this planet up to that we keep evolving into higher life forms in order to survive. Are we heading towards perfection ?
#19
Quote by metaldud536
What is the purpose of life if we are to die eventually ? Why do we evolve in order to live if we are to die eventually? Since were all part of an ecosystem that supports this planet, why does earth want to survive ?

There is no reason why we are alive, so special purpose. We are around because we could, and circumstance led us to existing.

The purpose of any living thing is to reproduce. We evolve to allow us to survive, and reproduce. Essenially, thats what it all boils down to.
#21
Quote by umop-3p!sdn
As Superioddity said, Evil is an opinion. What we regard as evil is only evil because society tells us it is.

For example:

Say person #1 grew up near a slaughterhouse, with parents that were butchers. You would grow up around killing animals, so it would be perfectly normal.
Person #2 grows up with 2 hippies for parents, spends their childhood at animal rights demonstrations, and is a vegetarian. Person #2 would consider Person #1 evil because they have drastically different opinions, and they see what person #1 grew up with, and so sees it as normal, as evil.

Completely simplified, but in essence that is what "evil" is.


But does that mean we should quit fighting for what we believe in? Because who is to say both opinions are wrong? Right?

And to metaldud, what constitutes perfection?
#22
Quote by Doolittle
Evil backwards is Live. so is to live is be Evil? deffiently some sort of sybolism there, ponder that


God backwards is dog, so should we go around worshiping cocker spaniels?


Quote by metaldud536
What is the purpose of life if we are to die eventually ? Why do we evolve in order to live if we are to die eventually? Since were all part of an ecosystem that supports this planet, why does earth want to survive ?


i've often wondered what the point is behind reproduction. i mean, it doesnt contribute to the organism's welfare, requires considerable energy and the existence of the offspring has no real impact on the wellbeing of the parent, so why would organisms have evolved this? in fact, they couldn't have evolved it cos that requires several generations.
#23
Quote by Michelangelo193
And to metaldud, what constitutes perfection?

Perfection doesn't exist. Everyone has a different opinion. And something that is perfect would just be one thing, that is greater than everything else. So you couldn't actually have the perfect cake, the perfect man/woman...
#24
Quote by blue_strat
God backwards is dog, so should we go around worshiping cocker spaniels?


i've often wondered what the point is behind reproduction. i mean, it doesnt contribute to the organism's welfare, requires considerable energy and the existence of the offspring has no real impact on the wellbeing of the parent, so why would organisms have evolved this? in fact, they couldn't have evolved it cos that requires several generations.


But one could argue that love is part of well-being. I think we all know that human's have a natural feeling of love. That said we all have different opinions as to what love is. But I know most parents love their spouse (for a certain amount of time) and children, so could reproduction, something that people do because of love (most), spawn a form of love?
#25
Quote by mulletman500
Perfection doesn't exist. Everyone has a different opinion. And something that is perfect would just be one thing, that is greater than everything else. So you couldn't actually have the perfect cake, the perfect man/woman...


Exactly! Some people consider perfection the body adapting to the environment completely. But there is always need to be better. Mentality and perfection cannot coexist. I hope you guys get what I mean.
#26
Quote by blue_strat
God backwards is dog, so should we go around worshiping cocker spaniels?


course not but that's also interesting, to me that says watch out who you worship and who you devote everything to, you could be worshipping something great, or you could have watsed your whole life and had been worshipping a smelly mutt along

#27
Quote by Michelangelo193
But one could argue that love is part of well-being. I think we all know that human's have a natural feeling of love. That said we all have different opinions as to what love is. But I know most parents love their spouse (for a certain amount of time) and children, so could reproduction, something that people do because of love (most), spawn a form of love?


but humans weren't the first organisms, but those original organisms (bacteria, or whatever came before that, i cant remember) reproduced.
#29
Quote by Michelangelo193
But one could argue that love is part of well-being. I think we all know that human's have a natural feeling of love. That said we all have different opinions as to what love is. But I know most parents love their spouse (for a certain amount of time) and children, so could reproduction, something that people do because of love (most), spawn a form of love?


I think that we produce offspring simply because we can die.
Somewhere along the line it was decided that we must survive, and until we become completely immortal we'll produce offspring.
As for love, I think that eventually we'll evolve past love, and all other emotion.
If evolution's basic principles are followed, then the most simplistic life form is the furthest evolved.
A creature that is self maintaining and free of thought and emotion is probably the end of the line.
Quote by Smokey Amp
Quote by gunner_011
wat song is it lol satriani??

Don't disgrace Satriani like that.
#30
Quote by Doolittle
course not but that's also interesting, to me that says watch out who you worship and who you devote everything to, you could be worshipping something great, or you could have watsed your whole life and had been worshipping a smelly mutt along

And Racecar is Racecar backwards. What metaphor does that symbolise? Theyre able to go backwards?
#31
Quote by Michelangelo193
Some people consider perfection the body adapting to the environment completely


but a man who does not work in physical labour, such as a builder or farmer, would not need to build up muscles if they were, say, an accountant. the men often referred to as "perfect", however, are usually very muscley models who bodybuild in the gym. i suppose you could say that the attraction of such men harks back to the days when we were hunter-gatherers and the alpha males were the strong dominants, and it was in a female's interests to mate with such a male to support the family. but in modern times, when you could support a family with a desk job, such physical prowess is not needed, and mental and social skills are.
#32
Quote by superioddity
I think that we produce offspring simply because we can die.
Somewhere along the line it was decided that we must survive, and until we become completely immortal we'll produce offspring.
As for love, I think that eventually we'll evolve past love, and all other emotion.
If evolution's basic principles are followed, then the most simplistic life form is the furthest evolved.
A creature that is self maintaining and free of thought and emotion is probably the end of the line.


If the most advanced is an emotion-less being then I don't want anyone to advance. I'm a Creationist, and I consider love the greatest blessing. The ability to look past disgustingness in the world and see a beautiful person whom I love is why I get out of bed in the morning.
#33
Quote by blue_strat
but a man who does not work in physical labour, such as a builder or farmer, would not need to build up muscles if they were, say, an accountant. the men often referred to as "perfect", however, are usually very muscley models who bodybuild in the gym. i suppose you could say that the attraction of such men harks back to the days when we were hunter-gatherers and the alpha males were the strong dominants, and it was in a female's interests to mate with such a male to support the family. but in modern times, when you could support a family with a desk job, such physical prowess is not needed, and mental and social skills are.


Right, I never said I believed in the perfection. I was just pointing out another view. I agree with you completely
#34
Quote by umop-3p!sdn
And Racecar is Racecar backwards. What metaphor does that symbolise? Theyre able to go backwards?


i rest my case!

#36
I never said it's what we wanted to become, I was purely saying that the most efficient being, on a survival basis, would not be sidetracked by emotion.
Everyone wishes to love, and be loved, and that may be one of the greatest parts of life (I'm too young to know) but it causes all sorts of problems for some people.
And as for seeing past the disgustingness, I don't want to. That's one of the best parts of the world for me, it's the true nature of the human race, some of it simply amazes me.
Quote by Smokey Amp
Quote by gunner_011
wat song is it lol satriani??

Don't disgrace Satriani like that.
#37
Quote by blue_strat
but a man who does not work in physical labour, such as a builder or farmer, would not need to build up muscles if they were, say, an accountant. the men often referred to as "perfect", however, are usually very muscley models who bodybuild in the gym. i suppose you could say that the attraction of such men harks back to the days when we were hunter-gatherers and the alpha males were the strong dominants, and it was in a female's interests to mate with such a male to support the family. but in modern times, when you could support a family with a desk job, such physical prowess is not needed, and mental and social skills are.

There will never be perfection, because there are always ways of improving on whats already there. Theres only "the highest stage in evolution so far"
#38
i think it there is a thought process that runs:

why do we reproduce?
parents love their children
we reproduce for happiness
happiness is a human emotion
something like a human invented reproduction
reproduction is inherent to nature, so this being must be very powerful
we cannot see this being, but have positive experiences from praising it
---> religion
#39
Quote by superioddity
I never said it's what we wanted to become, I was purely saying that the most efficient being, on a survival basis, would not be sidetracked by emotion.
Everyone wishes to love, and be loved, and that may be one of the greatest parts of life (I'm too young to know) but it causes all sorts of problems for some people.
And as for seeing past the disgustingness, I don't want to. That's one of the best parts of the world for me, it's the true nature of the human race, some of it simply amazes me.


I can see what you mean. If I were not to know disgustingness, then I would not know love, because I would have nothing to compare it to.
#40
I have a question. Many people consider suicide because they feel they have no purpose, does that mean that we have no right to intervene and talk one down from suicide? If they feel they have no purpose, then who are we to tell them they do? I don't think I completely grasp this concept yet, but I think you guys understand what I'm getting at.