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#1
Hey, I think i just wrote my first spam thread, although it's a bit left of field. Still, it's quite an emotional moment *sniff*

There seems to be a lot of posts on UG asking about people's rigs, and while no doubt some of it's just curiosity there does seem to be a bit of obsession about the minutiae of certain players equipment...*cough* John Frusciante *cough* Dimebag Darrell. And I can't help but wonder...why?

Yes, they're great players, but buying their gear isn't going to make you play like them...more to the point, why would you want to? And by that I mean have heroes and influences, but don't focuses all your enegrgies on trying to play "Like someone else"...just learn to "play".

If that strikes a chord with you...I worry about you guys. I worry you're not having as much fun as you should be and are worried too much about nailing certain tones. Don't be, don't even try to copy a tone, just muck around with your rig until it sounds good...try not to compare the sound with other ones you've heard too much.

We have a crap TV show in the UK, and no doubt in every other country in the world...actually we have many crap shows, but I'm talking about "Stars in their Eyes", where people get made up to look like someone else, and sing like someone else. Basically it's karaoke in fancy dress, but I hope most people would agree that the basic principle of copying someone elses voice when you sing a song is downright lame. Think of all the best cover versions you've heard, and they're all the ones where the song stands out because of a different voice, or a different style. Ray Davies once got thanked after a gig for "playing that Van Halen song", Trent's Hurt vs Johnny Cash's, Hendrix's vs Dylan's All Along The Watchtower. The contrast between two great interpretations of the same song is what makes them so good, You wouldn't sing in someone elses voice, so why play in someone elses "voice"? Take a great song, and make it your own, play it with your voice, your heart, your soul.

Imagine, if you will, "Guitars in their Eyes", where people dress up as their favourite artists and play along on Guitar Hero to an audience of millions...ok, you can stop imagining now, it's not nice. We all have a different rhythm, that's why when the handclapping starts at a gig everyone's out of time with each other....possibly also something to do with the speed of sound and the doppler effect, and possibly also something to do with consuming large quantities of cheap vodka beforehand but bear with me. If you worry too much about equipment you'll eventually end up convincing yourself it sounds wrong no matter what, you should be finding out how much you can do with what you have instead

Don't worry too much about the mechanics of playing something either- nobody sets out to write a part by planning out how they're going to pick it, or which fingers go where, it's just how that particular person plays. The notes are all that's important...just like the words in a song, how you play them is up to you. Be familiar with the original, and maybe understand why they chose to play it the way they did, but play it how it suits you. If you want to alternate pick instead of downpick...do it. If you want to put a slide in instead of a bend...do it. If you want to play an entire piece in pinch harmonics...congratulations, you're Zakk Wylde.

Arguably you need certain sounds at your disposal...clean, crunch, heavy rhythm and lead, but in terms of what works for those particular tones the scope is endless. And you don't HAVE to play a song in the same way, you can actually learn a lot by mucking around by playing songs in different styles...Monkeywrench as a ska ditty, a punk version of Puff the Magic Dragon (although there's a punk version of pretty much every song out there!), South of Heaven the jazz ballad, Down With the Sickness in a lounge stylee...oh wait, Richard Cheese already did that one.

I'm as curious as the next person as to what gear people use, but try not to let it drive you...you shouldn't feel your playing is being held back becasue you're rig is incomplete, but it'll all be sorted once you've got that final piece of the jigsaw...trust me, there's ALWAYS another piece to buy
Actually called Mark!

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Last edited by steven seagull at Oct 20, 2009,
#2
right on brother, take influences, but dont become your idol theres enough copycats out there
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#3
im not a copy cat. i take offense to that.

not really.

i appreciate you worrying, but i think i can fend for myself.
#4
I totally agree. Sounds weird seeing as I have a Paul Gilbert sig guitar, but I didn't buy it to sound like him, I bought it because it's a great guitar.
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#6
mark.

well put friend.

i know a few young players. i enjoy helping them over the rough patches of starting out, but i worry sometimes when i see how star stuck they can get over particular artists.

for the most part, tone is subjective, and i doubt anyone here would like my rig as much as i seem too.

ive seen a lot of concerts. often, these groups have a hard time sounding like themselves. there is a lot of production that goes into making a cd, and it's not practical to think this is something that can be bought off the shelf at guitar center.

just keep playing. find a style that suits you, and have fun.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#7
Good thread, mark. I completely agree with your points. I know a lot of people that completely idolize their favorite guitar players to the point that they want to play and sound exactly like them. It's depressing.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

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#8
Well said!


I'm actually coming to a realization that I don't want to sound like other artists that I like...more so on what I want *hears tone in head*.

I like your relation with playing the guitar and singing!

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#9
One of my happiest moments with guitar was when I asked a buddy after I was done practicing which guitarists I sounded the most like. He said "I'm sorry man, but I can't think of anyone... you sound like you."

It was the best thing he could've said.
#10
Someone else's rig is a good starting point, especially if you're unable to blow tons of money going through 1000 amps before you find the one you like the most. Take a tone you like, and make it yours.

That being said, the first step to musical creativity is imitation. Just about every metal band after the 90s started out doing Metallica covers.
Quote by Paul Gilbert
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#11
Rad thread. Hopefully some words will be heeded.

We need inspiration, wherever it may come from, to play. Whether it be from copping that Hendrix lick or being a metal douche (sorry metal fans i.e. entire UG forum ha!).

But yes, we need to take all that and mix it up and spew out something hopefully good sounding.
#13
Quote by forsaknazrael
And when they realized they didn't have the technical prowess....Nu-metal was born.

haha, nice
#14
Quote by forsaknazrael
And when they realized they didn't have the technical prowess....Nu-metal was born.


It's pretty sad when you don't have the technical prowess of Metallica as a professional musician
Quote by Paul Gilbert
GET OUT OF MY YARD
#15
Nice thread Mark
Sometimes though, when you see one of your favourite artists use a guitar with a certain colour or whatnot, it just tempts you to buy one similar. I like what you're getting at though, it's true. I really like that last paragraph
Gonna Leave this town

Gotta leave this town

Gonna make a whole lotta money

Gonna be big yeah...
(Jimi Hendrix - Hear My Train A Comin')

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#16
^Same, I liked that last paragraph. Really relates to what I'm doing now!
Co-Founder of the Orange Revolution Club


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-2-channel Titan
-Oversized Bogner 2x12 Cabinet
-Fulltone OCD
-RMC Picture Wah
-T.C. Electronic Nova Delay
-Larrivee D-03R
#17
Writing an article like this is fine, but picking people out of a crowd and telling them you worry about them because they want to sound like one of their influences? Kinda low.

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#18
Great thread. Unfortunately, I hardly think it'll be of much use to those who insist on copying X and Y player - most people like that I know are so set in the quest for being a copy of someone else, that they don't listen to anything or anyone.

anyway, pretty cool of you to take the time to write all of that.
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#19
Quote by steven seagull
Hey, I think i just wrote my first spam thread, although it's a bit left of field. Still, it's quite an emotional moment *sniff*

There seems to be a lot of posts on UG asking about people's rigs, and while no doubt some of it's just curiosity there does seem to be a bit of obsession about the minutiae of certain players equipment...*cough* John Frusciante *cough* Dimebag Darrell. And I can't help but wonder...why?

Yes, they're great players, but buying their gear isn't going to make you play like them...more to the point, why would you want to? And by that I mean have heroes and influences, but don't focuses all your enegrgies on trying to play "Like someone else"...just learn to "play".

There's a few names that spring to mind that...serbusfish and Arlabester are two ...and I worry about you guys. I worry you're not having as much fun as you should be and are worried too much about nailing certain tones. Don't be, don't even try to copy a tone, just muck around with your rig until it sounds good...try not to compare the sound with other ones you've heard too much. You both have great gear and are obviously really keen, but I wonder how you find time to play with the amount of questions you ask.

We have a crap TV show in the UK, and no doubt in every other country in the world...actually we have many crap shows, but I'm talking about "Stars in their Eyes", where people get made up to look like someone else, and sing like someone else. Basically it's karaoke in fancy dress, but I hope most people would agree that the basic principle of copying someone elses voice when you sing a song is downright lame. Think of all the best cover versions you've heard, and they're all the ones where the song stands out because of a different voice, or a different style. Ray Davies once got thanked after a gig for "playing that Van Halen song", Trent's Hurt vs Johnny Cash's, Hendrix's vs Dylan's All Along The Watchtower. The contrast between two great interpretations of the same song is what makes them so good, You wouldn't sing in someone elses voice, so why play in someone elses "voice"? Take a great song, and make it your own, play it with your voice, your heart, your soul.

Imagine, if you will, "Guitars in their Eyes", where people dress up as their favourite artists and play along on Guitar Hero to an audience of millions...ok, you can stop imagining now, it's not nice. We all have a different rhythm, that's why when the handclapping starts at a gig everyone's out of time with each other....possibly also something to do with the speed of sound and the doppler effect, and possibly also something to do with consuming large quantities of cheap vodka beforehand but bear with me. If you worry too much about equipment you'll eventually end up convincing yourself it sounds wrong no matter what, you should be finding out how much you can do with what you have instead

Don't worry too much about the mechanics of playing something either- nobody sets out to write a part by planning out how they're going to pick it, or which fingers go where, it's just how that particular person plays. The notes are all that's important...just like the words in a song, how you play them is up to you. Be familiar with the original, and maybe understand why they chose to play it the way they did, but play it how it suits you. If you want to alternate pick instead of downpick...do it. If you want to put a slide in instead of a bend...do it. If you want to play an entire piece in pinch harmonics...congratulations, you're Zakk Wylde.

Arguably you need certain sounds at your disposal...clean, crunch, heavy rhythm and lead, but in terms of what works for those particular tones the scope is endless. And you don't HAVE to play a song in the same way, you can actually learn a lot by mucking around by playing songs in different styles...Monkeywrench as a ska ditty, a punk version of Puff the Magic Dragon (although there's a punk version of pretty much every song out there!), South of Heaven the jazz ballad, Down With the Sickness in a lounge stylee...oh wait, Richard Cheese already did that one.

I'm as curious as the next person as to what gear people use, but try not to let it drive you...you shouldn't feel your playing is being held back becasue you're rig is incomplete, but it'll all be sorted once you've got that final piece of the jigsaw...trust me, there's ALWAYS another piece to buy

I mostly agree with what you saying definally, but I would long for John Fruciante's gear. Because I just love he's damn tone the same with thousands out their! But I think people who play around a certain musicians style (Just the one) isnt a great idea. Since I started playing guitar I may have glued my playing to a certain musicians in long periods but that is purely to gain style and technique from that played, and it works well, its like fusing Blues, Rock, Jazz etc. and sure has made me a better player..

Ok, now the more I go on the less I have seemed to was Frusciates sound..lol.. weird... anyway..
#20
im not a copy cat. i take offense to that.

not really.

i appreciate you worrying, but i think i can fend for myself.

Surely you mean "fend-er" for yourself

Nah, I know you aren't a copycat - otherwise you wouldn't be playing metal with single coils and Fender amp I've just spotted a few people who post big lists about "my future rig", and basically they're talking about stuff they hope to own in 5 years time. You only ever seem to want one thing at time, but as long as you don't get hung up on what you DON'T have and don't feel limited by what you do have then that's cool.

I'm just passing on some of the lessons I had to learn on my own - when I was learning the only other player I knew had been playing about 2 months longer than me so all we basically did was swap wrong information between each other! I'd have been made up if I could ask several thousand people a question in the time it took to make a cup of tea. Don't be offended by being mentioned by name, the main reason is that i reckoned you were bright enough to know what I was on about. Same goes for serbusfish, it's not a case of singling someone out for any other reason other than he was one of the people who sprung to mind when I though of it, I'd have said the same thing to him if I bumped into him in a pub while slightly drunk. I just figured if I was going to write that much crap I might as well make it public, and I'd best do it now before I get to the "Turn that racket down" stage

ive seen a lot of concerts. often, these groups have a hard time sounding like themselves. there is a lot of production that goes into making a cd, and it's not practical to think this is something that can be bought off the shelf at guitar center.

One of the best examples is Queen, who sadly I never got to see - they used every trick available in the studio, and quite a lot that they came up with themselves. However, they didn't attempt to recreate it live, if you listen to "Live Killers", whereas the studio tracks are refined and meticulous the live versions are raw, ragged and surprisingly heavy sounding, and "We Will Rock You" is completely re-worked and unrecognisable.
Actually called Mark!

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...it's a seagull

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Last edited by steven seagull at Mar 5, 2007,
#22
i totally agree- but i have one thing to say. it's one thing to own the same gear as them, but once you start asking for their settings, well, you're overboard.

and you get the award for 'most non-'06/'07ers in a thread.
Quote by corduroyEW
Cheap amps are "that bad". They suck up your tone like cocaine at Kate Moss' party.


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#23
i totally agree- but i have one thing to say. it's one thing to own the same gear as them, but once you start asking for their settings, well, you're overboard.

What strings do I nd to get John Frusciante's tone in the Dani California solo???? I nd to know plz!!!!

kthnxbai
and you get the award for 'most non-'06/'07ers in a thread.

w00t!

I'm not surprised though, I'd have thought the amount of writing would have put most of them off, anyone that can bothered to read it is most likely to undertand and appreciate it too!

....I figured most of you guys just replied out of pity
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#24
....I figured most of you guys just replied out of pity


no. we talk to u in the spam thread out of pitty.


this was just something else to do today.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#27
Props steven. Nothing to add, other then that I agree. A lot of very talented musicians played shit for years. Mimic that
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#28
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#31
^^

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
Dave, you've posted twice, but you have yet to use an actual word.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

Quote by ibz_bucket
Just so you know, I read everything you type in a Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs voice.

Quote by tubetime86
I mean in Kyle's case, it is in the best interest of mankind that he impregnate anything that looks at him funny...
#33
...I've also noticed that.

Has dave become mute? : O!!!
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-Fulltone OCD
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#34
^If being mute means you can only express yourself with emoticons, then yes, dave is mute.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

Quote by ibz_bucket
Just so you know, I read everything you type in a Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs voice.

Quote by tubetime86
I mean in Kyle's case, it is in the best interest of mankind that he impregnate anything that looks at him funny...
#35


What a sad e-day.
Co-Founder of the Orange Revolution Club


-Esp/Ltd Ec-1000 w/ BKP Mules
-2-channel Titan
-Oversized Bogner 2x12 Cabinet
-Fulltone OCD
-RMC Picture Wah
-T.C. Electronic Nova Delay
-Larrivee D-03R
#36
Agreed.

[/spam]
Feel free to call me Kyle.

Quote by ibz_bucket
Just so you know, I read everything you type in a Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs voice.

Quote by tubetime86
I mean in Kyle's case, it is in the best interest of mankind that he impregnate anything that looks at him funny...
#37
Quote by godofshred
i have my own tone nailed and i love it.
its inspiring to have your own, if you use somoneelses, your trapped in that style and sound. IMO


I too have my tone nailed, at least for now. Once you capture your own "tone" people can't help but be taken back by it. I've jammed with close to a dozen other guitar players, many if not most of whom are better players than me, and all of them have commented at one point to another how good I sound because it's not just the same old tone.

It's a wonderful feeling.

Another band that does things completely different live Vs. in studio is Radiohead. Absolutely everything on two of their albums (Kid A and Amnesiac) sounds completely different live for all sorts of reasons relating to mix, production, missing instruments, etc. It's really quite amazing what the results are though, if anything the songs are better suited for it, dispite changing their original mood...
#38
Quote by TNfootballfan62
Dave, you've posted twice, but you have yet to use an actual word.




yeah... er... I guess another way to get your own tone is to think up all the people's tones that you dig, and then make yours a combination of those. or something.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#39
Quote by Arlabester
im not a copy cat. i take offense to that.

not really.

i appreciate you worrying, but i think i can fend for myself.


then why all the threads?
Tunes, gear and other random stuff can be found in my "UG" profile if you click my name
#40
I don't think we should be naming names... I have no problem with arlabester's (or anyone else's) threads, and I'm willing to go on the record as saying that.

Arly is what, about 13? he has a 5/6 year headstart on when I started playing, and I wish I'd started sooner. Good luck to him (and anyone else).

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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