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#1
Okkay, This is by no means directed at everyone, but since ive been here i constantly read "dont buy that LTD, its agathis and dont go below the 400 series" oh and line 6 suck and spiders are a total waste of time and sound worse than an Marshall MG.

I own a LTD Viper 100FM Agathis, and a Line 6 spider 210.

Heres my..Demo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMrFfOiRjw

Sorry for bad pinch harmonics and erm, sounding gay but, english accent, rofl.

Comment here or on youtube, i'll check both =p

Edit: it's a bit quiet so you may need to higher volume on speakers =p.
#2
I like your accent, haha.

But you talked too much -_-.

Funny video though, I liked it. Don't get me wrong, I don't absolutley hate spiders...there's just tons more out there that are better. Really depends on what you're doing. If you're gigging, then blah.
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#4
it still sounded too sterile, harsh, digital and noisy.
and it would have not matter if you plugged in with a different guitar. IT would have sounded very similar.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#5
Well... if you're a good player you're going to sound good no matter what you play.
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#6
Cool Man. I own the same head. I have a tube I as my main now, but back when I was just starting to really have my ear develop for tone the line 6 is the best deal around. Line 6 really is smart. They gear their products towards newer guitarist who want something better than a 10w amp that came with their jump start pack. At that level in playing, no player will know the difference. As far as they are concerned, the line 6 is awsome! Only problem is after a bit of time one starts to notice how the sound is digital and then lusts after a mesa or marshall.


The spider series is a huge seller for that reason though. Its the only amps that gives a good tone at 1.
#7
Quote by Alex The Red
Well... if you're a good player you're going to sound good no matter what you play.


i beg to differ- put slash on a marshall MG 15
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#8
Turn the volume up and you'll see what we mean.
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#9
Either turn up the volume or get a good pair of studio monitor headphones. The cleans are mediocre but the distortion sounds pretty terrible in person. The fact of the matter is, for the money you spend on a Spider you can easily get something better.
Quote by Paul Gilbert
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Last edited by Jongpil Yun at Mar 3, 2007,
#10
I think you missed a soloing test.
Besides being a guitar player, I'm a big fan of the guitar. I love that damn instrument. Steve Vai

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#12
Quote by El Cumanés
I think you missed a soloing test.


i wanted to keep it simple, nothing fancy just, simple power chords,
#13
Quote by Jongpil Yun
Either turn up the volume or get a good pair of studio monitor headphones. The cleans are mediocre but the distortion sounds pretty terrible in person. The fact of the matter is, for the money you spend on a Spider you can easily get something better.


Every suggestion i have seen has been a Roland Cube, or Cube, and tbh, the distortion on that isnt exactly "amazing".
#15
Finallly. lol, The main point of this, was, so when people say the spider suck or agathis guitars suck or whatever, they can go here, see the vid and judge for themselves a bit better than somone just telling them that their bad.
#16
Quote by CraigKing


wow, i must commend that guy's playing, i couldnt hear that many mistakes at all.

But what you've got to do is top listening to the actual notes being played, and listin to the actual tone that he is producing
Quote by Pookie6
Yngwi3, You win this whole monstrosity of a thread.

Quote by uk.mace
For the best tingle, use Original Source mint. That shit feels amazing on your balls.


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#17
Quote by Yngwi3
wow, i must commend that guy's playing, i couldnt hear that many mistakes at all.

But what you've got to do is top listening to the actual notes being played, and listin to the actual tone that he is producing


Seriously, that sounded like shit.
Quote by Paul Gilbert
GET OUT OF MY YARD
#18
Quote by CraigKing

wow that tone sucked balls. it was all noisy, fizzy and sterile sounding. I had to turn it off half way because it was beginning to hurt my ears. Im sorry but no matter how good someone is if they have a terrible tone its hardly bearable to listen to them.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#19
Tone=ESSENTIAL. I have to say, I've had sucky tone, but not from my gear. But anyway, LINE 6 is, like, The Heather Brooke of tone.

I'll just sit back and wait for you to get that one.


Hint: google heather brooke.
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#20
Quote by Yngwi3
wow, i must commend that guy's playing, i couldnt hear that many mistakes at all.

But what you've got to do is top listening to the actual notes being played, and listin to the actual tone that he is producing


The tone isn't bad at all.

Suck it, spider haters. You officially lose for your nonsensical arguments and blind hatred for all things Line 6

Mexican_Shred:

Lets see some clips of your rig with a better tone?

I hate to say it, but it was far from "Sterile and shit" and I really enjoyed that tone. It wasn't the greatest but holy shit, it beats out alot of amps I've heard.

Hell, it ****s the JSX in the ass if you ask me ( I hated that amp )
#21
okay, im not a Spider 'Hater' but i don't like them much at all.

but the reason they sell is stated by Uberschall above.

also, no one buys a regular solid state amp anymore. its either a Roland Cube 60 (modeller) or a Vox Valvetronics (modeller)
there are pretty good solid states out there, i love my Carvin SX100, i beats the shit out of any Spider, Cube, or anything.. almost a versatile too

people are too caught up in having the best of everything. about half your tone comes from how you play.
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#22
line 6 flextones emulate mesa dual and triple rectifiers and i must say they sound pretty darn good. granted, its not as good as the REAL thing but its very, very close. oh yeah, line 6 CAN sound like crap, but u have to tweak it as with all amps to find a sweet spot. i found a dead-on metallica kill em all tone. it works pretty darn good for master of puppets songs too.
#23
Quote by skimbleshanks
line 6 flextones emulate mesa dual and triple rectifiers and i must say they sound pretty darn good. granted, its not as good as the REAL thing but its very, very close. oh yeah, line 6 CAN sound like crap, but u have to tweak it as with all amps to find a sweet spot. i found a dead-on metallica kill em all tone. it works pretty darn good for master of puppets songs too.


But... if you spend that much time tweaking a Cube or Valvetronix, it'll sound better.

Same thing goes to genocide. Besides, I think very few people hate all things Line 6 as you seem to think, but almost everyone who has either moved on to better things or doesn't have a Spider but has played one, hates them.
Quote by Paul Gilbert
GET OUT OF MY YARD
#24
Quote by Jongpil Yun
But... if you spend that much time tweaking a Cube or Valvetronix, it'll sound better.

Same thing goes to genocide. Besides, I think very few people hate all things Line 6 as you seem to think, but almost everyone who has either moved on to better things or doesn't have a Spider but has played one, hates them.


to each their own... but come on, for the price and the amount of amps its modulating (which are VERY close to the real thing), its a great product for what it is.
#25
Quote by Jongpil Yun
But... if you spend that much time tweaking a Cube or Valvetronix, it'll sound better.

Same thing goes to genocide. Besides, I think very few people hate all things Line 6 as you seem to think, but almost everyone who has either moved on to better things or doesn't have a Spider but has played one, hates them.


That much tweaking? In the first video, he used mostly presets, only slightly messing with the EQ to change one setting. That's not much time tweaking. People buy $2,000 mesas and have to spend months if not years (yes, its been stated on here before, look around for the big mesa debates) trying to find an acceptable tone. So by that theory, wouldn't amps like a mesa boogie rectifier be completely useless.. If a Spider II is absolute garbage ..takes three knob turns to sound decent, but a mesa takes three MONTHS to sound decent... What does that make the $2000 mesa?

I don't understand the second point in your argument, so I can only throw out a few comments about that. Namely being that the tone was at least acceptable and nowhere as bad as people make it out to be. If I had the money and I needed a practice amp, a Spider II would probably be a the most viable option. I have already "moved on" from small, solid state amps, but I still know tone. That tone was perfectly acceptable for what it is. It does it better than most amps in the price range (I find cubes to be muddy and the Vox are nice but they don't have as much oomph as the other two)

So basically, the first video said that you only need HALF a brain to use a Spider II. The second video showed that you can get a GOOD tone from a Spider II.

There isn't anything to argue about. Right in front of your nose- proof that Spider IIs don't suck.

Accept it. Move on.
#26
too digital for me

the only thing about those amps it's the high gain tone(kinda decent)

and the blues tone(supossedly based on the bassman) it decent too

the rest of the effects are not soo good(especially the delay)
#27
Sigh.
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
That much tweaking? In the first video, he used mostly presets, only slightly messing with the EQ to change one setting. That's not much time tweaking.

Vox Valvetronix also comes with presets, which are better. Less range, but better quality.
People buy $2,000 mesas and have to spend months if not years (yes, its been stated on here before, look around for the big mesa debates) trying to find an acceptable tone. So by that theory, wouldn't amps like a mesa boogie rectifier be completely useless.. If a Spider II is absolute garbage ..takes three knob turns to sound decent, but a mesa takes three MONTHS to sound decent... What does that make the $2000 mesa?

But that's just the thing: these people aren't spending months/years to find an ACCEPTABLE tone on their Mk IVs, they're trying to find a great one that they can call their own -- otherwise all they would have to do is copy someone else's EQ settings. What you call "decent" for a Spider II sounds pretty shitty compared to a poorly setup Mesa.
I don't understand the second point in your argument, so I can only throw out a few comments about that.

I was referring to when you said this:
The tone isn't bad at all.

Suck it, spider haters. You officially lose for your nonsensical arguments and blind hatred for all things Line 6

You make it sound as if we have some sort of irrational jihad declared against Line 6. Hence, my response that most people don't hate all Line 6 products, just the Spiders.
Namely being that the tone was at least acceptable and nowhere as bad as people make it out to be. If I had the money and I needed a practice amp, a Spider II would probably be a the most viable option.

Case 1: 120 watt Spider

Well, I'm saying that for the money you'd be better suited with a Cube 60 ($10 more) or Vox AD50VT ($50 more). For one thing, 120 watts is completely ridiculous. If you need that much volume, you can afford a better amp. Second, an MG can be "acceptable", but the point is that it isn't worth the money.

Case 2: 30 watt Spider (more likely)

Same as above, but change the Cube 30x to $30 more and the Vox to $40 more. Still worth it, as both the Vox and Cube have more effects, and more amp simulations.
I have already "moved on" from small, solid state amps, but I still know tone. That tone was perfectly acceptable for what it is. It does it better than most amps in the price range (I find cubes to be muddy and the Vox are nice but they don't have as much oomph as the other two)

From what I can hear, thats wrong, and also backwards. The Cube definitely has a better distortion channel than the Spider II, and that it's distortion is "muddy" is usually the only legitimate complaint that you can say about the Vox. That and both the Cube and Valvetronix have better effects.
So basically, the first video said that you only need HALF a brain to use a Spider II. The second video showed that you can get a GOOD tone from a Spider II.

The first video, like I said, doesn't really show anything. If you can listen to one in person with the volume past 5, the problems with the Line 6 really jump out, especially on the dirty channels. If you never crank it past 5, there's no reason for you to spend extra money on 120 watts.

The second video's tone was terrible, period.
There isn't anything to argue about. Right in front of your nose- proof that Spider IIs don't suck.

Accept it. Move on.

They don't SUCK, but as I said before, "The fact of the matter is, for the money you spend on a Spider you can easily get something better."
Quote by Paul Gilbert
GET OUT OF MY YARD
#28
Quote by Yngwi3
i beg to differ- put slash on a marshall MG 15



I'd bet he'd sound just as shredfully awesome.

Most musicians are defined by their licks and the emotions they put into their playing much more then their tone.
Leader of The Cult of Echoes, for those who believe 23 min. of Pink Floyd Epicness just isn't enough.

Pm Alex the Red if you're interested



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#30
tone is subjective. what sounds good to one may not to another. thats why some people like certain types of music. I think as long as you are happy with the "tone" your producing, screw what people think. this is music after all, an expression of ourselves, not a "look at how much I spent" contest.
P.S. to the threadstarter, I thought it was great!! keep on keepin on!!
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#31
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
The tone isn't bad at all.

Suck it, spider haters. You officially lose for your nonsensical arguments and blind hatred for all things Line 6

Mexican_Shred:

Lets see some clips of your rig with a better tone?

I hate to say it, but it was far from "Sterile and shit" and I really enjoyed that tone. It wasn't the greatest but holy shit, it beats out alot of amps I've heard.

Hell, it ****s the JSX in the ass if you ask me ( I hated that amp )


Thank you, xxgenocide98xx.
#32
Quote by The_0thersid3
how long have you been playing


Me? coming upto two years i think.

and to all people saying about better amps. The main point of this thread was that even on a sucky guitar? the tone on the spider isnt that horrible, i'm sure some of you will say it is but, i'm sure alot of people with also think "that was quite cool!" Plus, i used the defaults for nearly every one, except the one where i said.
#33
Quote by xxgenocide98xx


Mexican_Shred:

Lets see some clips of your rig with a better tone?

I hate to say it, but it was far from "Sterile and shit" and I really enjoyed that tone. It wasn't the greatest but holy shit, it beats out alot of amps I've heard.

Hell, it ****s the JSX in the ass if you ask me ( I hated that amp )


sure

all clips recorded in Acid 5 free edition with a 5 dollar general electric MIC using an rg570
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=917673&t=9307
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=918003&t=9307
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#34
Quote by mexican_shred
sure

all clips recorded in Acid 5 free edition with a 5 dollar general electric MIC using an rg570
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=917673&t=9307
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=918003&t=9307


Something tells me that he wasn't expecting that :p

pwn't

do you have any clips using the crunch or ultra setting?

They sound like the clean channel anyway lol
Quote by Pookie6
Yngwi3, You win this whole monstrosity of a thread.

Quote by uk.mace
For the best tingle, use Original Source mint. That shit feels amazing on your balls.


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#36
Quote by CraigKing
Uh. Theirs a £1000 price difference there between that and the spider.

Those cleans do ofcourse sound nice.


Yes well, genocide said that, "Hell, it ****s the JSX in the ass if you ask me (I hated that amp)".

I'm laughing my ass off though. Yeah the Spider pwns the JSX.

To be fair I guess using genocide's hyperbole here is a bit of a strawman argument, but you never know when some noob might be convinced that a Spider II sounds better than a JSX.
Quote by Paul Gilbert
GET OUT OF MY YARD
#37
Quote by Yngwi3
Something tells me that he wasn't expecting that :p

pwn't

do you have any clips using the crunch or ultra setting?

They sound like the clean channel anyway lol

lead on a dirge is crunch lol. i eq'd it to get it a nice lead tone. My ultra is my DT tone ill record somethign later with it.
I traded in my Real Books for Robbins and Cotran Pathology Textbooks
#38
Quote by Jongpil Yun
Sigh.

Vox Valvetronix also comes with presets, which are better. Less range, but better quality.


A Valvetronix isn't going to plug into a regular starter guitar and get an acceptable metal tone.


But that's just the thing: these people aren't spending months/years to find an ACCEPTABLE tone on their Mk IVs, they're trying to find a great one that they can call their own -- otherwise all they would have to do is copy someone else's EQ settings. What you call "decent" for a Spider II sounds pretty shitty compared to a poorly setup Mesa.


I didn't say anything about Mark IVs. I said that people claim it takes months to find a "Good" metal tone and a rectifier is a $1500 amp. This guy had a "Good" metal tone and all he had to do was take a half dozen seconds to turn 3 dials. It wasn't the best, but its easily better than most self-produced recto tones/clips I've heard.


I was referring to when you said this:

You make it sound as if we have some sort of irrational jihad declared against Line 6. Hence, my response that most people don't hate all Line 6 products, just the Spiders.


No, there are tons of people with an irrational hate against all things Line6. Check back a month or two and there were several Vetta/Flextone threads where you had at least 15 different users stating that Line6 amps were total garbage regardless of the price range. Lurk more.


Case 1: 120 watt Spider

Well, I'm saying that for the money you'd be better suited with a Cube 60 ($10 more) or Vox AD50VT ($50 more). For one thing, 120 watts is completely ridiculous. If you need that much volume, you can afford a better amp. Second, an MG can be "acceptable", but the point is that it isn't worth the money.


120 watts is not completely ridiculous. At that level of volume with a SS amp you can practice with a band who has bigger/better gear (like more experienced players) without having to pay alot of money for it. What "better" amps could you buy for the $300 or whatever it costs? the cube is more money, the vox is more money. The vox doesn't really compare due to the fact that it does not do Modern tones straight out of the box like the others. The Cube is half the wattage, has one speaker and in my opinion, doesn't have a very good distortion channel. Its just as buzzy and solid state as a Spider except it's pretty muddy where the spider isn't.


Case 2: 30 watt Spider (more likely)

Same as above, but change the Cube 30x to $30 more and the Vox to $40 more. Still worth it, as both the Vox and Cube have more effects, and more amp simulations.


Once again, we aren't talking about effects or simulations, we're talking about the fact that the Spider series can in fact produce a reasonable tone. I personally don't think that if you buy a $200 amp you should expect tremendous amounts of effects or models. I don't think the Cube effects are worth a shit and the Vox are barely passable as something I would use (I don't use the Cube effects at all.) as well as the Spider series.


From what I can hear, thats wrong, and also backwards. The Cube definitely has a better distortion channel than the Spider II, and that it's distortion is "muddy" is usually the only legitimate complaint that you can say about the Vox. That and both the Cube and Valvetronix have better effects.

The Cube is muddy as all hell, the Vox doesn't have enough balls to do Modern Metal or uber high gain tones, and I already covered the effects.


The first video, like I said, doesn't really show anything. If you can listen to one in person with the volume past 5, the problems with the Line 6 really jump out, especially on the dirty channels. If you never crank it past 5, there's no reason for you to spend extra money on 120 watts. Can you


You can't listen to a solid state amp PERIOD that sounds decent once you turn it up past five. There aren't really any at all that will do that. A cube sounds like shit when you turn it up, so does a Vox. So do 99% of the solid state amps there.

Do you know what the benefit of having 2x the wattage and another speaker is? More headroom. Yes. In fact, you have TWICE the headroom and speaker response (giving you a higher perceived volume and more bass response giving you a fuller tone) of a cube 60 or a vox 50w combo. That's why they make the amps bigger. To get more volume. breaking up 1/2 way thru the dial on a 30w is less than breaking up 1/2 way thru the dial on a 120w. In fact, that gives you about 50% more volume based on wattage alone, let alone the added speaker (for the 2x12)


The second video's tone was terrible, period.

They don't SUCK, but as I said before, "The fact of the matter is, for the money you spend on a Spider you can easily get something better."


I disagree.
#39
Quote by xxgenocide98xx


This guy had a "Good" metal tone and all he had to do was take a half dozen seconds to turn 3 dials. It wasn't the best, but its easily better than most self-produced recto tones/clips I've heard.



Not that it matters but, in fairness i spent about a minute before i did the vid, just adjusting the Eq's, i just had to turn each nob a lil to activate it during the vid, rather than resetting it up. But yeah, he's right it doesnt take long atall if you know what your doing.

If you just turn bass all the way up, mid , treble all the way forward drive all the way up, as allot of people will do, then ofcourse its not going to sound fantastic.
#40
Quote by mexican_shred
sure

all clips recorded in Acid 5 free edition with a 5 dollar general electric MIC using an rg570
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=917673&t=9307
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=918003&t=9307


Clip 1:

Cleans are flat and rather unimpressive. I could pull that out of any amp in my house right now without too much of a problem.

The distortion is fizzy and flat, kind of like the cleans.

All in all the clip was rather unimpressive and to post actual recorded clips (rather than with a webcam or camera like the threadstarter) that sound like that in rebuttal to me is just ridiculous.

Clip 2:

Tone is better but a clean tone like that is pretty frigging easy to get. They didn't have any shimmer sparkle or shine, they sounded dull and flat kinda like clip 1 except marginally better.

If you can call that "good" tone you have no room to slag off amps like the Spider II. especially when you're paying $1200 for a Marginal tone whereas someone buying a spider is paying $400 tops for a marginal tone.

Quote by Jongpil Yun
Yes well, genocide said that, "Hell, it ****s the JSX in the ass if you ask me (I hated that amp)".

I'm laughing my ass off though. Yeah the Spider pwns the JSX.

To be fair I guess using genocide's hyperbole here is a bit of a strawman argument, but you never know when some noob might be convinced that a Spider II sounds better than a JSX.



I have to say that there's a bigger problem with n00bs saying the spider II sucks than n00bs saying that the JSX sucks worse than the Spider II. On that note, at least if they both suck the spider II owner didn't spend three times as much sucking it up with a JSX.
Last edited by xxgenocide98xx at Mar 4, 2007,
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