#1
Hey guys. So lately I have been trying to learn music theory and so far its coming off as really confusing to me... This is the page I have been using:

http://ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/for_beginners/learning_music_theory_the_beginning.html

Now for a few questions.

1. With the interval chart, why is the Major Sixth an A and also the Diminshed Seventh an A? And also, when I use a different root note, sometimes it only works if I use a B# or E#... why is this? Is this normal and how do you play those notes?
2. The Circle of Fifths. This confuses me beyond all belief. There isnt anything I understand about it at all.

PLEASE HELP!!
#2
The interval chart is incorrect in calling the diminished seventh A. It should be called Bbb (B double flat). Both pitches are enharmonic, but Bbb serves a different function than A. C Major being an example, A is the major sixth, but the Bbb is the diminished seventh.
#3
it has to do with diatonics. you cant repeat a note in a scale. so quote from ur link:

Take the C# major scale for example: C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#. You can’t put C# D# F F# G# A# C C#, because it is not diatonic!
#4
i dont understand the second part of one

but the first part goes like this:

diminished 7th really evolved from harmonic minor, if you dont know what it is, its a minor scale, with a raised seventh, looks like this:


1 2^b3 4 5^b6 7^1

now, build an arpeggio of the 7th, and it looks like this:
7, 2, 4, b6, 7

put those in relative terms and you get:
1, b3, b5 for the first three
now look at this
the area between a flat 6th and flat 7th is a whole step
if the 7th is raised, it becomes a step and a half, a minor third, and a minor third up from flat five is a major sixth

so it looks like this:
1 b3, b5, bb7
often times the bb7 seven(called double flat seven) is written with the circle to symbolize diminished

main part: a diminished seventh is not the same as a flat seventh, its a double flat seven, and if you go 1 step down from 7, you get a major 6th, thus, your answer, it ideally is the 6th, but the way it functions in the scale is as the 7th degree, so they call it diminished seventh instead of 6th

before i explain circle of fifths, do you understand how you get sharps and flats in a key?
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#5
ah so the interval chart is wrong.. it should b a Bbb... got it but how would you play that?

and no i have really no idea how you get sharps and flats in a key.. I am pretty new to all of this and the more help i can get the better... thanks
#6
no problem, if you ever wanna IM me or PM me with any questions on this stuff feel free, ive been in a very teaching mood lately


okay, so if you havent learned the formula for a major scale, its like this, with ^=half step, as before in harm minor diagram i did

1 2 3^4 5 6 7^1

halfsteps between 3 and 4 and 7 and 1

now, remember these, burn them in your brain, this to me, is just like 2 plus 2, its something i dont even have to think about anymore, i just do it without knowing

the naturally occuring halfsteps are betwenen e and f, and b and c

thats why C is your standard major scale, because:

1 2 3^4 5 6 7^1
C D E^F G A B^C

the halfsteps match up, its the naturally occuring major scale

but now, lets try, F major

1 2 3^4 5 6 7^1
F G A B^C D E^F

half steps dont match up
a flat=lowering a note a half step
a sharp=raisign it a half step

flat the b:

1 2 3 ^ 4 5 6 7^1
F G A ^ Bb C D E^F

it works, the halfsteps match up, this F major has one flat in it

google an image for the circle of fifths

and heres some tricks to memorizing it:
-the center key is C, because its the only natural major scale
-one side is all flats, the other is all sharps, at the bottom are the enharmonic keys, for instance, C# is the same as Db
-the side that has the flats, starts with f, think that flat starts with f, thus, the flats start with F
-then after the F in flats, it follows this pattern: F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb
-all the keys on the flat side after F are _flat, like Bb, and the amount of flats in them go up by one, F has one flat, B has 2, etc
-remember the BEADGCF pattern, common in music theory
-on the sharps side, i remember it starts with G, i dont know how, but just because its not the flat one, so it doesnt start with F
-it after G it does BEAD, backwards, G D A E B F# C#

also, once you memorize that, the order of flats in those key signatures:
BEADGCF
just think, bead, greatest common factor(math like term i use)
and for sharps, its the opposite
FCGDAEB

to apply that, think, okay Bb, its the second on the list for flats, after F, and because its second, it has 2 flats, and the first 2 flats are B and E, thus, Bb has 2 flats, Bb and Eb


hope i could be of help
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#7
ahhh yes it makes sense! thank you soo much that was giving me such a headache...

do you have a hotmail account?
#9
Yeah just follow like what it say circle of 5th

If you cycle up to the 5th note from key of C...the fifth note is G
G is a key with one #...so continue to the next key with two #
Cycle up to the 5th note from G . It would be the key of D that has the two #
and so on and so forth.

Just make the power chord...chord5 whatever as the tonic
the ring finger note is the next key signature up.....not in pitch

Notice..it's alway the forth note that shift 1/2 pitch up if going to the # side
Notice...it's always the 7th note that gose 1/2 down if going to the Flat side.
Notice the major pentatonic scale has the 4th and 7th dropped.
Notice....this where the 1/2 steps are at in the diatonic sclae

some peaple remember it the other way as will Circle of 4th
The 4th note from C is F...the F has one flat
The 4th note from F is B...so the next key would be Bb with two flats.
Last edited by Ordinary at Mar 9, 2007,