#1
alright so i have been playing for about 5 and half months now. I'm working heavily on scales and music theory. Right now i can not figure out how to memorize the minor pentatonic in ever key which really sucks. I've got a metronome, but i don't know how to play scales to it.

really i'm lost, i don't know what to practice or what to learn, someone help me out here
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#2
Getting into theory is good, it will help you a lot down the road. For starters, memorizing the pentatonic (minor) scale is good to begin with. There is several ways to memorize scales, probably the most thorough and complete is to learn your entire fretboard, then work off the intervals. Don't worry about that just yet, memorize your basic pentatonic minor patterns all in 1 key, E minor say. Then you just remember that whatever root you start on the shape/pattern is the same, its just now in a different key. So if you take the basic E minor pentatonic position at say the 12th fret and move it down to G (3rd fret) you are now playing a G minor pentatonic scale. The same goes with the other positions but you aren't always starting with your root if you know what i mean. Something that will help is memorizing atleast the low E and A strings of the fretboard up to the 12th fret.

As for practicing to a metronome, the key is accuracy. Start at the lowest your metronome goes and listen for a second to the beats, count along with it, and then try playing through your scale with each note being played exactly on every click. Play it through perfectly 10 times and then try to get 2 notes per click, and slowly work your way up to 3 and 4. After you have done that for a few days perfectly try increasing the BPMs VERY slightly. Just slowly build yourself up to faster and faster speeds. The key is accuracy and cleanliness, practice with a clean tone and distortion tone if you play with distortion.

Hope this helps,
Johnny Rebel
#3
thanks alot man, but about the memorizing scales, how do i know where the root note of the scale form is? Because it seems its neevr in the same place
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#4

e--|--0--|----|-----|--x--|---
B--|--X--|----|-----|--X--|-----
G--|--X--|----|--X--|-----|---
D--|--X--|----|--0--|-----|----
A--|--X--|----|--X--|-----|------
E--|--0--|----|-----|--X--|----


this is a good shape for the Minor pentatonic. the '0''s are the roots. this is not table it is a diagram of your guitar neck. when you want this in A minor, play the shape with the '0''s on the E strings at the 5th fret.
#5
Usually the key of the song is the first note played. Mostly. The key tells you what the root note of the scale is.

Example: Glycerine by Bush. The first chord progression goes, F C D A#. It's in the key of F, so the root note will be 1, or 13. Look at brentonlatour's diagram of the pentatonic. You want to move it to match the key. In this case the left most O's are supposed to be on the 1st or 13th fret (which are both F's.)

Some of the terms might be wrong, I don't know a great deal of theory but that's what I do all the time and it sounds pretty good. hope this helps.
#6
Ok i kinda understand that the first note you play is the key of that scale form, but what if you used another scale form like



e--|--|x|--|x|--|
b--|--|x|--|x|--|
g--|x|--|x|--|--|
dx|--|--|x|--|--|
ax|--|--|x|--|--|
E--|x|--|x|--|--|

see thats a different scale form, if you just do the same thing for f and put it on the first fret, then why do scale charts go all the way up the fretboard in the same key.Because it looks liek to me from how everyone has explained it that all the scale forms for 1 key go on the same fret. explain how they go all the way up the fretboard please.
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#7
See there are several patterns for each scale, they are movable for all of the scales though. Scales are composed of notes, each key or scale has specific notes that belong to it, and any notes not found in it are out of key or out of the scale. Thats why the patterns go all down the fretboard, because as long as you are playing the notes in the scale, you can play the notes anywhere on the fretboard. Learn what intervals are, and then you can better understand what notes are in what scales and how you determine and build scales, then you will better understand how the patterns work.
#8
wow, thats highly confusing
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#9
No its not, you are confused. Johnny is trying to help.

Alright, the minor pentatonic scale is made up of the intervals 1 b3 4 5 b7. If the root (1) is A then the notes in the scale are A C D E G. These notes are found all over the fretboard, thus the scale can be played all over the fretboard.
If you haven't already, learn the names of the notes all over the fretboard.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#10
Make sure you realize that scales are notes, not patterns. The patterns are just memory and technical tools. If you want to play in the key of C major, just make sure you are only playing the notes C D E F G A B on the neck.
Don't tell me what can not be done

Don't tell me what can be done, either.



I love you all no matter what.
#11
Quote by nightwind
Make sure you realize that scales are notes, not patterns. The patterns are just memory and technical tools. If you want to play in the key of C major, just make sure you are only playing the notes C D E F G A B on the neck.



Heya, just a question, isn't Major formula 1 2 3 5 6 7?
#12
Quote by oreodunk
Heya, just a question, isn't Major formula 1 2 3 5 6 7?



Major - T T S T T T S. These steps make the intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
In C major these intervals become C D E F G A B.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#13
ok so when i learn all the notes on the fret board, and learn the minor pentatonic formula, then i can apply that to my soloing. but thats really tough, like improvising on the spot and being able to know which notes are where.

how do you guys do it?
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#14
Quote by t-r-a-v-i-s
how do you guys do it?


Practice, practice, practice.

Eventually you will just see the notes and not have to think about it.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#15
Well, I have been soloing for quite a while -- maybe 30 years or so. I think there
are few simple concepts your really need to know for starters. For simplicity, I would
start with the minor pentatonic scale over a standard 12 bar blues progression.

You can solo quite well with a single finger position in a scale, but a really key
understanding is how a scale relates to the finger position patterns and why a
pattern is NOT a scale. Visualizing patterns is really the key to soloing, but you
really also need to know how to slide those patterns around so you're in the key
you want to be in.

Everything has a pattern on the guitar and it's really all relative to patterns that
various intervals make on the guitar. In my experience memorizing note names is
one of the least important aspects of soloing. You really have no time to think like
that when you solo.

In any case, with only 5 months, you have a long way to go. Just try and take things
in small steps. You won't get it all at once.
#16
Thanks edg, I already know the minor pentatonic, in the shape that brentonlatour posted. I'm wondering, what I should learn next
#17
Quote by t-r-a-v-i-s
Ok i kinda understand that the first note you play is the key of that scale form, but what if you used another scale form like


e--|-----|--X--|-----|--O--|---
B--|-----|--X--|-----|--X--|-----
G--|--O--|-----|-----|--X--|---
D--|--X--|-----|-----|--X--|----
A--|-----|--X--|-----|--X--|------
E--|-----|--X--|-----|--O--|----

O=root

this is a good shape too, easy to play. i play the shape posted earlier more because i can play it on the lower positions of the neck easier.

If you know how to use the minor pentatonic scales in a major pentatonic way, practice that. i say the next thing to learn is the Major scale and its modes. if you want me to write them out, PM me.

jam with people that are better than you (not playing covers; play blues or jazz, that is what gave us guitar solos, know your roots) . you learn swaths of knowledge from that.

Quote by edg
In my experience memorizing note names is one of the least important aspects of soloing. You really have no time to think like
that when you solo.


in my relatively short career playing guitar (30years>2years), i disagree with that. you need to know the names of the notes so you can apply the right pattern at the right position. if you play all patterns with the roots on the E strings, at least memorize the E sting. when that becomes instinctive, move on the the A string. Mr. Edg probably has well trained ears and unconscious competence when knee deep in a solo. Mr. t-r-a-v-i-s and I do not. I still think when i play, gotta keep practicing
Last edited by brentonlatour at Mar 14, 2007,
#18
Quote by brentonlatour

e--|-----|--X--|-----|--O--|---
B--|-----|--X--|-----|--X--|-----
G--|--O--|-----|-----|--X--|---
D--|--X--|-----|-----|--X--|----
A--|-----|--X--|-----|--X--|------
E--|-----|--X--|-----|--O--|----

O=root

this is a good shape too, easy to play. i play the shape posted earlier more because i can play it on the lower positions of the neck easier.

If you know how to use the minor pentatonic scales in a major pentatonic way, practice that. i say the next thing to learn is the Major scale and its modes. if you want me to write them out, PM me.

jam with people that are better than you (not playing covers; play blues or jazz, that is what gave us guitar solos, know your roots) . you learn swaths of knowledge from that.


in my relatively short career playing guitar (30years>2years), i disagree with that. you need to know the names of the notes so you can apply the right pattern at the right position. if you play all patterns with the roots on the E strings, at least memorize the E sting. when that becomes instinctive, move on the the A string. Mr. Edg probably has well trained ears and unconscious competence when knee deep in a solo. Mr. t-r-a-v-i-s and I do not. I still think when i play, gotta keep practicing


True dat, but it was helpful for me too. Theres a midian inbetween the two like you said memorizing the e string at least. But i'm still lost because theres like 5 different box forms for the m. pentatonic and if i memorize all the notes on the e string then i'll end up placing every box at the same point on the e string. my question is how do i place differnet box forms on different postions on the fretboard in the same key rather than the same place every time.
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
Last edited by t-r-a-v-i-s at Mar 14, 2007,
#19
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/scales/minor_pentatonic_scales.html

You should be able to see the different shapes and how they go together there.

But seriously, learn the notes, it is another tool in your belt. Then you can make the decision to use either shapes, notes or a combination of both. One obvious advantage of notes is it will be easier to play chord tones in a solo.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#20
i already have that printed out, but it does'nt help my question. how do i know where to put what box form in what key on the fretboard. because if i do what it says up there, every box will end up on the exact same place, but they go all the way up the fretboard. And if i learn all my notes i don't think anyone can think fast enough to play a solo by memorizing the notes in the scale formulas.
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#21
i already have that printed out, but it does'nt help my question. how do i know where to put what box form in what key on the fretboard. because if i do what it says up there, every box will end up on the exact same place, but they go all the way up the fretboard. And if i learn all my notes i don't think anyone can think fast enough to play a solo by memorizing the notes in the scale formulas. what should i do?
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#22
Quote by t-r-a-v-i-s
And if i learn all my notes i don't think anyone can think fast enough to play a solo by memorizing the notes in the scale formulas. what should i do?


You'll need to learn at least the E string (high and low E are both the same) notes.
Even then all you really need to know is where E,F,G,A,B,C,D,E,... are and can easily
find the # or b notes from that. That at least should become second nature to you
as you need to know SOME absolute positions on the fretboard.

From there you can mostly look at notes and scale formulas as something you work
with to figure things out in practicing. When you do that, patterns will start becoming
more familiar to you and THAT's what you generally think about when soloing. Also,
over time, you'll learn the notes on other strings as well.

The "boxes" all connect going up and down the neck. Think about them as just a
number of connected shapes on the neck but they don't have to be on any specific
fret. You can slide the whole connected shape up or down on the neck to change
keys.
#23
Okay, go to the link I posted. At the top are the five pentatonic shapes. Look at the first shape, see how the notes on the right are in a straight line? Look at the next shape, see how the notes on the left are in a stright line? They are the same notes. Now, look at the notes on the right of the second shape, see how they match up with the left notes of the third shape? Do you now see how they are connected?

Now all you have to do is make sure the root note of the shapes is right for the key you want to play in. Which means you need to learn a few notes.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#24
my gosh this is not getting through to me.

look, i know all the box forms. thats simple. except, they change around when you do certain keys. like the first form will be last on the another key. i want to know how people memorize where every box form is placed on every key. Like when you improvise, you know where every box form is on every key in a certain scale. how do you just memorize that and be able to be like "oh b minor pentatonic, wwaayahh weeee nuh nuh nuuh nunuh weeeeee!" and play the notes in that scale direct from memory?
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#25
ok i just looked at it and heres what i've gotten,

theres overall one giant shape, with 5 boxes in it and those box orders never change but the overall giant shape does to fit a certain key. correct?
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen
#26
Quote by t-r-a-v-i-s
ok i just looked at it and heres what i've gotten,

theres overall one giant shape, with 5 boxes in it and those box orders never change but the overall giant shape does to fit a certain key. correct?


Yeah that's right. The "giant shape" shape just slides up and down the fretboard.
Also note that the "5 boxes" repeat -- when you get to box 5, box 1 connects to the
end of it and so on. The order of the boxes, 1- 5, doesn't really mean much musically.

So finding a key is simply a matter of sliding the pattern to where the root falls where you want.
#27
sweet, hey thanks for all the help. can you guys please check out the thread i posted in tabs. you guys seem to know alot and i'd more than appreciate it if you could tab it.

thanks alot
"You know honestly, i don't see myself getting any faster. I mean, you can only hear so much."
-Eddie Van Halen