#2
Hmmm....no mention of tube dynamics.
The author assumed that everyone wants tube amps only for the power amp distortion: wrong.

The 'power' part of the article is good, and accurate.
#3
^I think he was saying that the main creamy tones come when the power amp gets pushed, but that would hardly ever happen, because it would be way too loud, even small combos. Its true everyone wants a 100watt tube stack, but it is a waste unless you are gigging large venues, because it will never get the full potential from the tubes because its too loud.

I always thought the majority of tone came from the preamp tubes, but i guess i was wrong. But that still gives a lot of warmth, as i have found out with my Laney hybrid i got, and even that has to be cranked on the distortion to sound its best..
#4
Good article. It's logical since some of the greatest recordings were done on pipsqueak sized tube amps. *Cough* Champ.
#5
Quote by DeadMansCurve
Its true everyone wants a 100watt tube stack, but it is a waste unless you are gigging large venues, because it will never get the full potential from the tubes because its too loud.


Eh, not really. I am happy with my 30 watt valve combo and know it's all that I'll ever need. The whole stack thing is just fueled by bands touring with empty stacks to make it looks like they're playing through 20 4x12 cabs.

I've had no legitimate reason to crank my amp past 3 and even then it sounds great and creamy.
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#6
Yeah, ive always wanted a Laney VC30 or a Carvin Belair, but the hassle of changing the tubes and all that requires too much maintenance. Ill stick with SS or hybrid I reckon, even though tube amps sound better than SS even at low volumes, they really need to be cranked.
#7
"I need a 100-watt amp 'cause my band has started gigging in clubs. This is a myth that I believe originates with hormonally imbalanced teens who have more experience watching movies about teen bands than they have playing real gigs."

God this should be headlining these forums in large red font!!!!
#8
Quote by DeadMansCurve
Yeah, ive always wanted a Laney VC30 or a Carvin Belair, but the hassle of changing the tubes and all that requires too much maintenance. Ill stick with SS or hybrid I reckon, even though tube amps sound better than SS even at low volumes, they really need to be cranked.
You don't change tubes very often. Maybe once every 2-3 years. And they don't need to be cranked. I love my Fender at low volumes in my room. Sure, I love it more when I'm with my band, but it's still great.
For these things give thanks at nightfall:The day gone, a guttered torch,A sword tested, the troth of a maid,Ice crossed, ale drunk.-The Hávamál
#9
Quote by DeadMansCurve
Yeah, ive always wanted a Laney VC30 or a Carvin Belair, but the hassle of changing the tubes and all that requires too much maintenance. Ill stick with SS or hybrid I reckon, even though tube amps sound better than SS even at low volumes, they really need to be cranked.


To be honest, it ain't really that much hassle. Be like once every 2 years and an expense of about 50 quid to change the valves. The sound quality is totally worth it.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#10
Quote by DeadMansCurve
^I think he was saying that the main creamy tones come when the power amp gets pushed, but that would hardly ever happen, because it would be way too loud, even small combos. Its true everyone wants a 100watt tube stack, but it is a waste unless you are gigging large venues, because it will never get the full potential from the tubes because its too loud.

I always thought the majority of tone came from the preamp tubes, but i guess i was wrong. But that still gives a lot of warmth, as i have found out with my Laney hybrid i got, and even that has to be cranked on the distortion to sound its best..


There is much more to tube amps than the overdrive. The way they respond to picking dynamics, compression, etc. is just as important (if not more) as the overdrive .
#11
^yeah, that's true. I'll probably end up buying a tube amp one day, but im good enough with my hybrid and my SS at the moment.
#12
The author says that a good 30W rig should be enough for a small sized gig and that wattage doesn't affect volume by as much as most people think.

The thing is my 30W solid state cube can barely be heard during band practise. It's competing with a 100W 2 speaker spider 2 and a high wattage 4 speaker bass amp though.

I heard solidstate amps are typically a lot less loud than tube amps, how loud would a 30W solidstate be compared to a tube one?

Would a 30W 2 speaker solidstate amp be twice as loud as a 30W 1 speaker one?

Thanks for the link by the way, some really helpful stuff there. I don't know much about amps and it's good to find a site which clears up some myths. I did already know that a 100W tube amp would be overkill
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#13
From my experiences...

30 Watt tube amp kills a 30 watt solid state amp in terms of tone and volume.

I turn up my orange to about 1 or 2 and that's about the equivalent of my cube 30 at 5-7.
Co-Founder of the Orange Revolution Club


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#14
Tubes are significantly louder than solid state. I've heard around 2.5 times louder. My Hot Rod Deluxe is 40, and it's loud. 30 will definitely handle a small gig. As for your other question, I don't really know.
For these things give thanks at nightfall:The day gone, a guttered torch,A sword tested, the troth of a maid,Ice crossed, ale drunk.-The Hávamál
#15
I know tube amps are noticably louder and cut through more, but 2.5 times louder, I doubt it.
#16
Quote by DeadMansCurve
I know tube amps are noticably louder and cut through more, but 2.5 times louder, I doubt it.

Nah it's true, 2-3 times louder to the ear depending on the tubes used. There's facts to back it up in these forums somewhere, or the net in general.
#17
Wouldn't that make a 30 watt tube equivalent in volume to a 450 watt ss amp?
Quote by Lukeisonfire
tool and opeth definitly dont play tube amps . You cant get those distorted sounds out of it. tube is for like beatles stuff right?


Quote by evilbeaver22
You're right, just about the only thing better than a Spider 3 is an MG : )


Last edited by Pete Griffin at Mar 18, 2007,
#18
Ive got the best of both worlds... Ive got the Laney VC15 for bedroom and practcing, then the GH50L for rehearsals, gigs, and when im pissed off at the neighbors... Seriously though, 50 watt all tube is ridiculously loud...
#19
Quote by Pete Griffin
Wouldn't that make a 30 watt tube equivalent in volume to a 450 watt ss amp?

2.5x30=450???????

30 watt tube would be around 80 watt solid state.
#21
Quote by treagar
Nah it's true, 2-3 times louder to the ear depending on the tubes used. There's facts to back it up in these forums somewhere, or the net in general.


so a fifty watt tube amp is 120 watts SS and so my cousins 120 watt SS amp and my fifty watt tube are as loud as each other, except a tube amp sounds better
#22
Quote by goatslullaby
2.5x30=450???????

30 watt tube would be around 80 watt solid state.


But to be twice as loud you need 10x the wattage.
#23
Hmm...last question:

Would a 30W tube amp with 1 12" speaker be enough for band practice and gigs? Or would I atleast need 2x12"?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#24
Quote by Kailoq
Hmm...last question:

Would a 30W tube amp with 1 12" speaker be enough for band practice and gigs? Or would I atleast need 2x12"?


You probably wouldn't be able to even crank the 1x12 at band practice; so it would be more than enough; either of them.
#25
Quote by goatslullaby
2.5x30=450???????

30 watt tube would be around 80 watt solid state.


You just doubled the wattage

It said for double the volume you must have 10x the wattage.

So if a 30 watt tube is 2-3 times the volume of a 30 watt ss you would need a
300-450 watt ss amp to rival the 30 watt tube in volume. (btw i have a maths degree so )
Quote by Lukeisonfire
tool and opeth definitly dont play tube amps . You cant get those distorted sounds out of it. tube is for like beatles stuff right?


Quote by evilbeaver22
You're right, just about the only thing better than a Spider 3 is an MG : )


#27
Quote by mr_hankey
You probably wouldn't be able to even crank the 1x12 at band practice; so it would be more than enough; either of them.


Wouldn't more speakers increase the quality of the sound? I think I read something about cabs sounding better when they're on ear-height.

What's up with that?
Not only would it disrupt the fabric of time and space, but it would totally ruin the surprise!
#28
Watts are watts. You can't say something like 30 watts valve = 80 watts solid state because that technically doesn't make any sense.
Watts are a measurement of output, not actual volume. They just push the speakers in a way that makes it seem louder to the human ear.
#29
Quote by treagar
Nah it's true, 2-3 times louder to the ear depending on the tubes used. There's facts to back it up in these forums somewhere, or the net in general.

Actually I did word that wrong, sorry. A tube amp will be as loud as an SS amp 2x-3x the wattage is what I meant to say.

So if you like 30W tube amp is roughly same max volume to the ear as a 75W SS as mentioned.
#30
Quote by Kailoq
Wouldn't more speakers increase the quality of the sound? I think I read something about cabs sounding better when they're on ear-height.

What's up with that?


Two speakers will sound 'fuller' and somewhat louder than one.
Also, speakers sound louder and brighter if they are aimed directly at your ears; which happens more easily at ear-height (no need to tilt the amp back, etc.).
#31
Quote by Jinskee
From my experiences...

30 Watt tube amp kills a 30 watt solid state amp in terms of tone and volume.

I turn up my orange to about 1 or 2 and that's about the equivalent of my cube 30 at 5-7.



if so, what would you say to compare volume of a 5watt tube amp compaired to a 15watt SS amp which is at 6-7.


might be replacing my practice amp if its loud enough.
KsE

You know they rock.
#32
Quote by de.sandman
if so, what would you say to compare volume of a 5watt tube amp compaired to a 15watt SS amp which is at 6-7.


might be replacing my practice amp if its loud enough.


My 6 watt Champ is a bit louder than my 15 watt SS amp; and it's too loud for bedroom practice, for some decent overdrive.
#33
A 30w valve amp is generally as loud as 100w solid state, as rule of thumb. Which is all the power anyone will ever need.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#34
Quote by treagar
Actually I did word that wrong, sorry. A tube amp will be as loud as an SS amp 2x-3x the wattage is what I meant to say.


aha, that makes more sense
Quote by Lukeisonfire
tool and opeth definitly dont play tube amps . You cant get those distorted sounds out of it. tube is for like beatles stuff right?


Quote by evilbeaver22
You're right, just about the only thing better than a Spider 3 is an MG : )


#35
Hmmm, I just read that having a Hybrid (tube in pre-amp) will not make any real noticable difference. Is this true, because I know my amp sounds pretty damn warm when it's turned up.
#36
For an amp to be twice as loud( a 10db increase in volume), it needs to be 10 times more powerful, ie- a 50w amp is twice as loud(perceivably) to the human ear, as a 5 w amp. I also think it's funny that people obsess about a pure tube tone, then proceed to place several boxes full of transistors in the signal path, but that's another matter entirely.
#37
so do rack mounted tube preamps make a difference?
Heads up to everyone, new person using this account
#38
no, to be twice as loud, the wattage has to be squared. a 25W amp is twice as loud as a 5W amp.

and it's the preamp and poweramp being tube that really make the difference. you can put digital effects in, because some effects just can't be analog.
Quote by corduroyEW
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#39
Quote by tubab0y
no, to be twice as loud, the wattage has to be squared. a 25W amp is twice as loud as a 5W amp.

and it's the preamp and poweramp being tube that really make the difference. you can put digital effects in, because some effects just can't be analog.


The tube power amp only helps if you're running it hard enough to compress, otherwise a decent solid state power amp will sound just as nice, you just need a lot more headroom.