#1
So heres the thing I consider myself pretty good at improvising but when it comes to blues I feel kind of limited. When I jam with people or with jam tracks i constantly find myself sort of running out of ideas, if you will...like each different time i jam with someone i basicly play sort of the same thing but kind of a like variation of it, if you can kinda follow. Like I see a lot of people on youtube improvise blues and it sounds so good like they're always using different phrasing and each time they play they think of something different, like dont get me wrong im not bad at improvising blues and i dont play the same thing every time, but I jus feel limited and i feel like i want to sort of expand myself and become not better but in a way more creative with coming up with different phrasing.


It would be great if someone could help me with this.

Thanks a lot.
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Last edited by ibanlezbians at Mar 19, 2007,
#2
I honestly feel the same way. I don't know what to tell you, but I need some advice aswell.
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#3
i too would like help with this. please something other than the youtube video for phrasing, it doesnt work on my computer due to blocking things.



EDIT: well, to change up my solo licks a bit, i like to talk with my guitar. i know, it sounds cliche . But i like to think of things to say, and use my guitar to say them. Hit the same notes as the voice in my head, like, say a scentence. then play it on your guitar. I hope i helped a bit...
If you want to jam in/around Mooresville NC message me.
Last edited by 812many at Mar 19, 2007,
#4
lol. SOMEONE HELP US!
My Gear:
Ibanez RG 370DX
Ibanez TS9Dx
Marshall Dsl 401

Quote by Draind
i've had my eye on the mesa boogie line, my price range is under $600.

Quote by batman123
maybe you could buy a picture of one for 600, and just pretend for awhile...

#5
Well, if you're tired of playing the same old things all the time, the solution is simple:
learn and practice new things. Your fingers will tend to do what they've been taught.
Also try taking the same line or scale or pattern and practice it at different timings:
triplets, 16th notes, 5 notes per beat, ... That can lead to some interesting phrasings.
#6
this would be a cool thread if everyone posted thier favourite lick to play when blues improving, and it would help the threadstarter and followers, and me too. I'd always wanted to learn some new improv licks. I'll start.

[---------------------------------------------------]
[---7----------------------------------------------]
[---9b11r9----7-------------------7------------]
[--------------------------7---9--------9vvvvv--]
[---------------------9----------------------------]
[---------------------------------------------------]
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#7
Sounds fun, I guess I'll join...

[---------------------------]
[----6hb--6---5---5--5--]
[----7hb--7---5---5--5--]
[------------------7--------]
[---------------------------]
[----------------------------]

It's a fun way to end a bluesy solo. Keep this thing bumped, this can do some of us some good!

Co-Founder of the Orange Revolution Club


-Esp/Ltd Ec-1000 w/ BKP Mules
-2-channel Titan
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-Fulltone OCD
-RMC Picture Wah
-T.C. Electronic Nova Delay
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#8
Best thing to do is to pick a simple, boring phrase from the minor pentatonic and constrain yourself to it....something as simple as this will do.

E----------------
B----------------
G----------7---9-
D---7---9--------
A----------------
E----------------


All you do is try to play a solo just using those notes....think of all the things you can do with them to make it interesting. Play them in different orders, put gaps in your playing, play them quick, slow, hard, soft, harmonics, bends, trills, hammer-ons, pull-offs, doublestops, slides, mutes, tremolo picking etc etc!

With just those 4 notes you've got shedloads of possibilities...just muck around with them and see what comes out.
Actually called Mark!

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#9
thats actually a good idea.
My Gear:
Ibanez RG 370DX
Ibanez TS9Dx
Marshall Dsl 401

Quote by Draind
i've had my eye on the mesa boogie line, my price range is under $600.

Quote by batman123
maybe you could buy a picture of one for 600, and just pretend for awhile...

#10
Ya, threadstarater, keep this thing bumped and come up with a catchy title.

Here:

[----5--5--------------------------------------------------------]
[----6--6-----------------------------------------------6-------]
[--------------7--5----------------5---------------7-------7--]
[-------------------------7p5h7--------7p5h7---------------]
[-----------------------------------------------------------------]
[-----------------------------------------------------------------]
My Gear:

Guitars:
Fender American HSS Stratocaster

Amps & Effects:
Hand-Wired JCM 800 2204
Hand-Wired V30 2x12 Cab
Keeley TS-9 Tube Screamer
ISP Decimator
EHX Holiest Grail
Modded Dunlop Crybaby
Boss RC-2 Loop Station
#11
You'll be surprised at how much variation you can get just out of those 4 notes...trust me, i've pretty much blagged my way through a whole song doing precious little more than that
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#12
Buuuuuuuuump
My Gear:
Ibanez RG 370DX
Ibanez TS9Dx
Marshall Dsl 401

Quote by Draind
i've had my eye on the mesa boogie line, my price range is under $600.

Quote by batman123
maybe you could buy a picture of one for 600, and just pretend for awhile...

#13
No need to keep bumping.

S Seagul is basically right. You don't need a bunch of written out licks to memorize
to work on your phrasing (especially when they don't even have the rhythms written
out!).

A lot is in the rhythm and how facile you are with varying it. To reiterate what I said
earlier:

Take a group of 4 notes that repeats.

Most would likely take those 4 notes and, using a
metronome, divide it evenly into 8th notes ( 2 notes per beat ) or 16th notes
( 4 notes per beat ). Then generally they'll just take 16th notes and push the
metronome up to try and "shred". That's ok, but it's a pretty boring rhythm and
uninteresting phrase-wise. What's more interesting, is taking those 4 notes
and playing 3 notes per beat (triplets). You get an interesting "snakey" rhythmn
out of that. How about 5 notes per beat? Very cool and I'll bet almost no one
practices that (it's kinda like 3 notes but faster). How about 9 notes, evenly
spaced per 2 beats? Also cool (Eric Johnson uses that one quite a bit).

When you take an even number of notes and put them into odd groupings,
interesting stuff happens (if you practice it). Conversely, you can take an odd number
of notes pattern and put it into even groupings.

Of course there's more to phrasing, but if you can get a grip on that rhythm stuff,
you'll be on your way to better phrasing.
#14
Phrasing is the most important part of any instrument

Id suggest downloading some simple backing tracks and just practice as much as you can with various licks and ideas within it.
#15
i need help too.
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#16
I think the best way to get good at your own style of phrasing is to learn other peoples solos that you like.

Learn as many solos as you can, take the licks you like and make them your own, then put them in your own solo's/jamming sesh.
If your constantly learning a new solo then you will never run out of ideas.

And dont tell me this is copying/stealing, how do you think music evolved?
#17
I moved this to musicians talk, as I believe you'll get better responses here.
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#18
Just a quick little tid bit which no one has mentioned yet. Think of the licks as questions and answers, like a conversation. You say something them someome replys. Now thats one phrase now change topics and do the same thing but think of something thats totally different to talk about. Think about the conversation taking turns and imagine adding different colours to the whole picture. Looks at the timing of the licks first for the drastic changes to get to another phrase then the notes for the colour.

I'am not sure if this makes sense or not but try thinking about it outside of just the fretboard and a bunch of licks you have learnt that you somehow have to string together. Think about major changes in direction, stop the conversation and start a arguement then make up for being rude then talk about something else totally in another realm.
Its all about the big changes in conversation.

I have been in ruts with my phrasing so many times and fall back and get stuck in the same old shit, listen to what you are playing and make changes and shift directions in the conversation. That proberly doesn't make sense either but if it does cool.

If all else fails stop and drink some good beer.
Not wrong when they called this the farewell tour!
#19
Watch the video Melodic Phrasing by Scott Henderson, and read this article: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/phrasing_for_dummies.html
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#20
^This dude pwns the shred forum...... so he is right.....
Tone is all ...... well probably 75%, in your fingers.
The rest depends on your wallet's thickness !!

Keep the faith, baby!!
#21
one thing that really helped my phrasing is when i started to look more at the notes i was playing and how they related to the other notes. a lot of people just play notes in a scale or mode and think, 'im in key so its all good.' well yeah, but you may not ever end on the root or move in ways that make sense musically. you dont necessarily need to even know the name of every note you play, just how it fits in the scale.

lets say for example you are in a random key, lets go with C cause its easy. you find yourself on the sixth of the scale. now you think, i can play X or Y fret and im in key. ok, that works. or you can think, well the sixth resolves nicely to the fifth. but if i want a bit more tension and something interesting, i can go down a third to the fourth which will go nicely to the third of my scale. you end up knowing what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what kind of effect it will give you.

how do you practice this? fairly simply actually. pick a note, then find that note on your fretboard in one place (aim for 4th, 5th or 6th string). now, find the major third and the perfect fifth of your note. now find those same 2 notes in the same octave in a new place. now add the octave of your root in 2 places. make sure you know where these are and know which is which, cause these are going to be strong places to land. then add more notes, each in 2 places in the octave. start with things like the seventh which can pull to the one, or the fourth which can pull to the third. eventually you start thinking more about how the notes are related to your tonic, and eventually how they relate to one another.

once you have this kind of idea down, you can just pick a fret and go. as long as you know how the guitar is set up, you dont need to memorize every note, just how things are related. and if you know scale forulas, you can add in a ton more stuff. minor changes three notes from major, you know this, you know which scale degrees are where, and you can adjust accordingly in your movements.

you start thinking while playing and you come up with ideas. dont fall back on things you have already done all the time, and thinking forces you to be different.