#1
Well, here are my 2 questions:

1. Does the stop bar makes the tuning problem of a regular floyd rose (you know, the tension and all that) go away?
2. Can you remove the stop bar without removing the backplate?

thx for the help.
#2
The stop bar doesn't do that as far as i know, the part that helps tuning more is the ball-bearing system in the zero-point mechanism thingy...basically it's supposed to set itself to zero-point every time. And no think you have to remove the backplate

Edit: though i haven't got my ibanez at hand so may be remembering wrong.
#3
The stop bar actually pulls against the string tension, making it harder to dive. The stop bar doesn't stop you from pulling up as many people think.

The benefits are that your trem won't dive when you bend, and tuning is easier since the ZR doesn't float freely. You have to take off the trem cover to remove it, and once you remove it, the bridge more or less has the tuning issues associated with any FR - you have to tune your springs exactly to counteract the string tension. That's easier to do here since the springs on ZR are adjusted with a thumbscrew, and you don't have to take off the trem cover to adjust it.
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#4
so basically when it's in the guitar you can tune like any other fixed bridge guitar? Or you still have to tune it considering the string tension?
#5
Quote by DWFK
so basically when it's in the guitar you can tune like any other fixed bridge guitar? Or you still have to tune it considering the string tension?


Not quite like a fixed bridge, no.

But say, how does it work normally on a Floyd: you put new strings on, they're all flat. You adjust bridge angle, then tune to pitch - string tension increases, bridge rises. You tighten the springs to get the bridge angle right, and all of your strings go sharp. And so on and on and on, until you compensate and find the right spring tension for your gauge. With the zero point system in, if your string tension is slightly more than the spring tension, the bridge will still be level because the ZPS set of springs keeps it at, well, zero point.

It's nothing magic, and it doesn't make the tuning super-easy, but it has its benefits. Like bends, or that you can tune ZR to drop D, and then raise the D to the E with the fine tuner, and the bridge will still stay in tune (this seems to be a big bonus for a lot of people).
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#6
I don't realy play in drop D. BTW what do you guys think is the best method to tune a floyd rose? Cross tuning or tuning the strings a little sharp/flat so when you tune the next string it will become pitch?
#8
Quote by pifty
Not quite like a fixed bridge, no.

But say, how does it work normally on a Floyd: you put new strings on, they're all flat. You adjust bridge angle, then tune to pitch - string tension increases, bridge rises. You tighten the springs to get the bridge angle right, and all of your strings go sharp. And so on and on and on, until you compensate and find the right spring tension for your gauge. With the zero point system in, if your string tension is slightly more than the spring tension, the bridge will still be level because the ZPS set of springs keeps it at, well, zero point.

It's nothing magic, and it doesn't make the tuning super-easy, but it has its benefits. Like bends, or that you can tune ZR to drop D, and then raise the D to the E with the fine tuner, and the bridge will still stay in tune (this seems to be a big bonus for a lot of people).

hey, nice explanation man, I've read about the ZR but I haven't used one yet. Gives me a really good idea of the benefits. So large bends won't alter the tuning on other strings right? Also, will a break still affect the rest of the tuning, and is it still loose enough to where it's easy to use like an OFR or Edge? Do they make a 24 fret S?
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#9
Quote by Erock503
hey, nice explanation man, I've read about the ZR but I haven't used one yet. Gives me a really good idea of the benefits. So large bends won't alter the tuning on other strings right? Also, will a break still affect the rest of the tuning, and is it still loose enough to where it's easy to use like an OFR or Edge? Do they make a 24 fret S?


Large bends shouldn't alter the tuning if it's set up well on other trems, and theoretically the ZR keeps it in tune if a string breaks, however i have experienced this not quite working as it should. That's probably only cos i messed about a bit with the tension when i tried it out in several different tunings though. And it is plenty loose enough to use easily. I am not aware of a 24 fret S series though.
#10
Quote by Erock503
hey, nice explanation man, I've read about the ZR but I haven't used one yet. Gives me a really good idea of the benefits. So large bends won't alter the tuning on other strings right? Also, will a break still affect the rest of the tuning, and is it still loose enough to where it's easy to use like an OFR or Edge? Do they make a 24 fret S?


Yeah, bends don't really do much to a ZR with the ZPS on. The trick is that ZPS only kicks in once you start to dive. At zero position or on raised pitch it doesn't exert force on the trem - meaning that when you want to pull up and squeal, you won't feel the additional springs. When you dive with the ZPS, you might feel the difference, but not much of it. The balance on the trem pivot is pretty gentle, so it doesn't take any kind of additional strength to operate the ZR one way or another, even with the ZPS.

It doesn't feel like a knife edge bridge, though. The radius of the rotation point is too large (a large ball bearing versus the pin point of a fulcrum trem), so ZR feels softer and.. um.. what's the word? Spongier, I guess. The action is more even and consistent over the whole range, but I feel like it loses arming precision. It works for all the things that an FR works for, you just have to adjust your reflexes.

I honestly don't know if breaking a string affects tuning, but if it doesn't, it won't be due to ZPS - since breaking a string shifts the tension to the springs and the bridge rises. Maybe the high E or B wouldn't affect the bridge so much due to its stiffer action, but even if they do, you can always give it a quick thumbscrew adjustment to compensate for lost tension. Won't make statements here, though, I never broke a string on ZR.

They don't, and never did make 24 fret S, even though there probably would be good market for those. There's been a few artist customs though... Mick Thompson played an awesome looking silver 24 fret Saber with EMG pickups, I had a pic somewhere... But again, not for the general public.
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#11
ic, thanks for the info guys. My friend has been trying to talk me into a Saber, I may have to check one out now.
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#12
Quote by Erock503
ic, thanks for the info guys. My friend has been trying to talk me into a Saber, I may have to check one out now.


They are really great, versatile guitars. I think they are best suited for Eighties Glam the best though, you know, back when everyone had kramers and Charvels. But they lend themselves useful for everything, really.
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#13
Totally go for it.

Although.

I'd of course say, skip the modern S stage, and go straight for the 90s editions with Edge or LoPro. Or 1620 if you want to try the ZR. But really, the Saber is phenomenal in feel, but they get chubbier and chubbier with years - like here, 90 vs 05:


And here's the one I was talking about:

(make it big!)

Edge FX, count the frets. They should have released that as his sig, it'd have actually sold.
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#14
i have one. basically the most amazing trem. tuning stability is not an issue, i dont have to tune for a week.. plus! you can change the spring tension by just rolling the thumb wheel with your thumb. older models though need an allen screw for that but still no hassle. and with the stop rod that you guys are saying are amazing. basically because of it, the trem is wonderful. but the rod keeps the trem holding back when dive bombing. its stiff. so stiff it broke the thing where you insert the arm







ill be bringing it to a tech soon. hopefully he can fix it.

still playable though. didnt affect the strings..
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#15
^ which year is yours? The earlier ZRs had that issue with weak arm socket. Actually, folks managed to put Edge socket on ZR, which would make the trem so much better as snap-in arms own that silly screw-in that ZRs come with.
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#16
Quote by pifty
Totally go for it.

Although.

I'd of course say, skip the modern S stage, and go straight for the 90s editions with Edge or LoPro. Or 1620 if you want to try the ZR. But really, the Saber is phenomenal in feel, but they get chubbier and chubbier with years - like here, 90 vs 05:<>

And here's the one I was talking about:
<>
Edge FX, count the frets. They should have released that as his sig, it'd have actually sold.

yeah, that older 90's one is what he was talking about. Nice guitars. I would have really liked to check out that sig guitar, bummer they never released it.
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#17
Quote by pifty
^ which year is yours? The earlier ZRs had that issue with weak arm socket. Actually, folks managed to put Edge socket on ZR, which would make the trem so much better as snap-in arms own that silly screw-in that ZRs come with.


05.. how did they manage to do it? do you have pics? is there an available parts that i can buy or they just improvise it?
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hi, i was just wondering how to post a thread?

Quote by AS I LAY DYING!
and USD is equal to how much in US dollars?

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Everyone must own a DS-1 at some point in their playing career.

^^idiots

#18
Quote by mothership
05.. how did they manage to do it? do you have pics? is there an available parts that i can buy or they just improvise it?


This is the Edge/LoPro arm holder:


The tread is there, so all it really takes is putting it in the ZR socket and fastening it from both sides. Getting the part can be tricky, Edge parts pop up on ebay ever so often. I'd say if you're serious about using ZR, it's a worthy mod to do anyways. The stock arm is [bleep]ing [bleep], if I may say so.
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#19
well, i guess i cant find one of those here in my place.. i really hope the famous luthier here can fix it..
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hi, i was just wondering how to post a thread?

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and USD is equal to how much in US dollars?

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Everyone must own a DS-1 at some point in their playing career.

^^idiots

#20
so basically apart from the obvious fact that they use the ball bearing mechanism instead of knife edges and the thumbscrew thing to change tensions, the ZR is like a normal floyd with a tremol-no?
#21
Quote by Diamond Dave
so basically apart from the obvious fact that they use the ball bearing mechanism instead of knife edges and the thumbscrew thing to change tensions, the ZR is like a normal floyd with a tremol-no?


No, not at all. Tremol-no either blocks your trem or sets it in dive only mode. Zero Point in the ZR doesn't block your trem, only puts additional resistance to diving. But in a nutshell, yeah, it doesn't do anything new. It's just a floating trem with a twist.
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#23
sounds pretty nifty, just wondering because ive heard the range isnt as great as in an OFR and ive also heard that this is only because the s bodies are too thin to route out a decent amount of wood so my question is is that the only reason why the range is not quite as good? so if you got a ZR trem and put it in another guitar that allowed greater routing then that wouldnt be a problem?

hmm... thats not a very well constructed paragraph... oh well you get the picture ay?
#24
I'm using someone's S right now and I can tell you that the usable range is a lot more than I could ever hope to use. I can dive the trem to the point that no noticable note is identifiable and I can pull up several steps (satch screams abound!).
#25
Quote by Diamond Dave
sounds pretty nifty, just wondering because ive heard the range isnt as great as in an OFR and ive also heard that this is only because the s bodies are too thin to route out a decent amount of wood so my question is is that the only reason why the range is not quite as good? so if you got a ZR trem and put it in another guitar that allowed greater routing then that wouldnt be a problem?

hmm... thats not a very well constructed paragraph... oh well you get the picture ay?


Yep, it's just the body. Were you to stick a ZR into an RG body, it would go an octave both ways. S is too thin for that - Edge has just half the range in it than it has in the RG.
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