Page 1 of 2
#1
hey guys,
after tonight my dad reckons there are no rules such as moving out of key of a song. He reckons u can do anything/ there are no rules to what you are doing

i had to make this post to see what people reckon of this because i think that there are lots of boundaries you have to stay within
#3
well, i belive there is a type of music where it has no specified key to play in but anythiing elce has to be in a key without it being all random.
EQUIPMENT.
Peavey 5150
Fender Showmaster QBT
Digitech Digidelay
#4
as long as it sounds good why should it matter if u stay in key? i wouldnt reccomend going out of key for improv though...that will probably end badly
MM Stingray
MIA P Bass
MIM Jazz Bass
GK 700RB-II Head
GK 410SBX Cab
Sansamp 3 Ch. DI
Crybaby Bass Wah
Bass Big Muff
DD3 Delay

MIA Strat
Nashville Tele
Martin 00015M
Hot Rod Deluxe
Big Muff
DS1
Hendrix Crybaby Wah
#5
you can move out of a key like crazy. but if you don't resolve back into a key you'll sound like ****.. i know a bunch of King Crimson songs that have no key sense and they sound kick ass... out there... but kick ass.
#6
Rule #1: There are no rules.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#9
Well my dad once told me there was no point in learning scales or any theory beyond a few scales, because hendrix never bothered.

Just because they think they're always right doesn't mean they are...
#10
I can sort of see what your dad is sayin tho, because i think that stayin within the 'rules' can sometimes hold you back. for instance you might create an awesome sounding riff but it might not be musically correct! i always play my guitar so that it sound good to me, 9 times out of ten if it sounds good to you it willl sound good to others. jazz for instance can quite often change key half way through a song but it still sounds good.
so i would say play your guitar aware that the boundries and rules are there but dont be afraid to bend or break the rules occasionally! hope that helped! lol
MY GUITARS:-

Gibson Les Paul standard
Ibanez NDM2
Ibanez s470dxqm
Ibanez AEL40 (electro/acoustic)
Fender DG-5 Acoustic
#11
so you guys are saying that there are know rules to follow?

note: my dad does not play an instrument, only a listener
#12
Hendrix is a very special case... he FELT where he could play what note and so on...
as for what your dad says.. he's partially right.. when you improv. over a certain chord the only notes you are restricted to are those in the chord.. anything else you play in your improv doesn't matter. It'll all sound realy jazzy though
The gear is in the profile.
You know you want to take a look





╠═══════╬═══════╣
Strat-mangling, echo-eating janglefan σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

╠═══════╬═══════╣
#14
As soon as you play with 2 melodic instruments there are certain (limited) rules.. when playing alone it's a lot easier to 'extend' your freedom since you won't clash with any other melodies
The gear is in the profile.
You know you want to take a look





╠═══════╬═══════╣
Strat-mangling, echo-eating janglefan σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

╠═══════╬═══════╣
#15
^ well yeh but i cant really play something in the key of A and then solo in E or somthing
#16
Quote by culex-knight
Rule #1: There are no rules.



AGREE!!!

there is always what sounds good and what makes sense, but listenening to some songs, u realize "hey, maybe rules really do suck!" and so yes, it does depend on what u play but i hate rules.
Your dreams are all out of focus;
Knock you up when you're feeling down.
And all the world feels so unreal...


COLORFUL COLORS
Quote by ishmonkey
Hitler was really smart and could have been a good leader but he was kind of a douche to the Jews.
#17
Quote by Cobalt Blue
you can move out of a key like crazy. but if you don't resolve back into a key you'll sound like ****.. i know a bunch of King Crimson songs that have no key sense and they sound kick ass... out there... but kick ass.


Ain't that the truth.

You can play any note on the neck in a solo but if you don't pull it together in the key of the song, it'll sound arse. Look, here's a certain Mr Setzer demonstrating my point mid song:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kKXaMM_NqBg

But there are rules to make it not sound arse indeed.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#18
well i think there are always rules look as SRV and many other blues artists. Since when do u find someone that is soloing out of key to what everyone else is playing
#19
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Well my dad once told me there was no point in learning scales or any theory beyond a few scales, because hendrix never bothered.

Just because they think they're always right doesn't mean they are...


Hendrix spent much of his early guitar days in jazz bands. He knew his theory. You have to to play jazz.
Founder of UG's David Bowie Fan Club. Pm to join.

Founder of UG's "Rockers against being freakishly skinny" Club. PM to join.
#21
Quote by zekk
Hendrix spent much of his early guitar days in jazz bands. He knew his theory. You have to to play jazz.


Aye, on the black music circuit in Southern USA.

The only reason he looks sloppy on the video's we see is because of being wasted on drugs. It really affected his playing. Made him a visionary, but badly affected his playing.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#22
Your dad is wrong when he told you about there being no reason to learn theory at all. It helps insanely, and you can write songs that can change key a ton of times, but know exactly what you're doing. I agree with him on the no rules portion, just becuase there's no set rules on how to write and play music. As long as it sounds good, do it.
#24
Your dads a moron. Don't feel bad though, my dad told me pullin' out works D:
RIFT.CANYON.DREAMS.


Quote by Oroborous
I'm trying to cover one of my bedroom walls in semen. I'm about half way done.

Pics coming soon
#25
^

The problem with theory and whatnot is people tend to treat it like an absolute rulebook with rules like

I. Thou Shalt Not Leap a Major Seventh.
II. Thou Shalt Use Thy Primary Triads.
III. Thou Shalt Not Play Out Of Key.

and stuff like that. The thing is, it's not like that, it's guidelines. There are guidelines about modulating using function and pivot chords and stuff, but it's really what you think sounds best. If you like playing in C# over a chord progression in G, well, that's your thing. But there are some nice hints about changing keys and when to play using non-harmonic tones.
#26
You don't have to follow rules at all, I agree. But in order to break the rules you need to know the rules. It's weird, but that's how it seems to be with music composition.
I'm a communist. Really.
#27
Quote by funkbass369
as long as it sounds good why should it matter if u stay in key? i wouldnt reccomend going out of key for improv though...that will probably end badly


Amen. Quoted for truth!
#28
Quote by striker327
hey guys,
after tonight my dad reckons there are no rules such as moving out of key of a song. He reckons u can do anything/ there are no rules to what you are doing

well like they said in Pirates of the Caribbean: "the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules" which applies to the guitar. You can play in any key, do covers of songs in keys that arent the same as the original...you can do anything as long as it sounds good...case in point is battery...I have no idea what key that song goes in but it just sounds amazing.

and someone mentioned how important learning theory is, like john frusciante says, theory is an option, if you can play already without knowing theory and you can transpose stuff then you don't really need theory but its all choice..
I've developed a complex where everytime I hear a Lamb of God song, I burst out laughing

My 7 String V build
My Main Guitars:
Kramer Striker FR-2027SM 7 String
BC Rich Afterburner Warlock
Washburn Xb100 Bass
My Effect(s)/Misc:
Digitech RP350
#29
lol there is always rules, if someone is playing an A chord you cant solo in lets say..... D without highlighting A as a root note
#30
I don't know, it makes sense what you are saying, but your dad is mostly right in my opinion.

You usually do have to stay in the key, especially during improvisation. However, changing keys in a song is not against any rules, nor is staying in key. Some artists like to go out of key to change the mood I think, and it does help. You can't just play different notes from modes, you have to throw something out there to keep it interesting.
Guitar:
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Amplifier:
Fender Blues Junior - Eminence Red, White and Blues
Effects:
Fulltone OCD
Electro-Harmonix Nano Small Stone
Ibanez DE-7 Delay/Echo
Dunlop Crybaby
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
#32
Quote by striker327
^^ i dont meen modulation if thats what you meen


Huh? Modulation? No...

I'm saying that you can't just stick in the keys to make good music, you have to throw in a little flat that is out there, or a note not in the scale like chromatics. You still keep the vibe of the key, but you can always stay out of it if you return.
Guitar:
Epiphone Les Paul Standard
Amplifier:
Fender Blues Junior - Eminence Red, White and Blues
Effects:
Fulltone OCD
Electro-Harmonix Nano Small Stone
Ibanez DE-7 Delay/Echo
Dunlop Crybaby
Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi
#33
Quote by striker327
^ well yeh but i cant really play something in the key of A and then solo in E or somthing



Yes you can, Its called playing the Fifth of the fifth, or if I remember correctly, Its playing in the Mixolydian mode, Steve Vai does it all the time.
Quote by boardsofcanada
^^

<_<
~Bass'-play-er.

The #1 member of the club that isn't terribly predjudiced against emo. Get over yourselves.
PM me, or just say # x
And part of Fortysix and twos Defenders of Emo club.

" Zach_F I love you for that."
#34
Quote by striker327
hey guys,
after tonight my dad reckons there are no rules such as moving out of key of a song. He reckons u can do anything/ there are no rules to what you are doing

i had to make this post to see what people reckon of this because i think that there are lots of boundaries you have to stay within

there are no rules. you can move out of the key if you want to and it can still sound good, if you do it right. Eastern music does it all the time, because they don't always stick to the 12-note scale.

Quote by Raziel2p
You don't have to follow rules at all, I agree. But in order to break the rules you need to know the rules. It's weird, but that's how it seems to be with music composition.


not for me it's not. Apparently i break the "rules", but as far as i know or care there are no rules to break.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
Last edited by Blompcube at Jun 16, 2007,
#35
I don't know but i may not be advanced as you guys but if i playing to a SRV backing track (Texas flood or something) and solo in a diff key, it sounds like crap
#36
Yes, it might sound like crap to you but it still isn't "wrong". Besides, only an idiot thinks music has rules that need to be followed or boundaries within you must stay.
#37
Originality is about breaking the set rules and boundaries.
You can do whatever you want as long as it sounds good.
#38
Quote by striker327
I don't know but i may not be advanced as you guys but if i playing to a SRV backing track (Texas flood or something) and solo in a diff key, it sounds like crap


It sounds more strange than crap, if you do it right. That's what playing off notes is about. Your dad is wrong for sure, but there's not strict rules you HAVE to stick by either, more like guidelines. I linked this video last page but I'll do it again. Watch how Brian Setzer goes out of key alot but brings it back to create a bit of tension in the sound:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kKXaMM_NqBg
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#39
Your dad is right.
Quote by BeefWellington

what's the point in being "philiosophical"?

Interesting question...
#40
try playing a whole blues solo in a pentatonic scale one half step down from the correct key, and tell me that you can play in any key.

And maybe Hendrix didn't learn music theory formally, but he used it ALL THE TIME.
Page 1 of 2