#1
ok so the dminor scale is

D E F G A Bb C D

the notes in the Dminor are D F A

when you follow the formula: 1 b3 5

what is the b3. like you obviously don't flatten f cause the note in the chord is F. and it is not Fb/e#.

"edit"

i just mean does the b3 suppose to mean to flatten the note and if it does why is the note not flat
Last edited by lbc_sublime at Jun 28, 2007,
#4
It's already minor, since it is the 3rd from the minor scale.
Alvarez dreadnought
Gibson SG
EC-1000
Homemade Strat (seymour duncan classic stack p/ups)
Vox Tonelab (original desktop model) with full board footswitch
Vox AD50
Avatar V30 4x12 cab
#5
so would it be correct to say that it symbolises that the third in a minor scale is flat to the third in a major scale
#6
I find it much easier to look at chord construction from the major (even when forming minor chords).


D E F# G A B C# D
1 2 3  4 5 6 7  8


Therefore D Major (1, 3, 5) is composed of D, F# and A. D Minor, which consists of 1, b3 and 5, would be D, F and A.

I just personally find it easier to work it out from the major scale. However, coffeeguy9 is correct.
#7
Quote by lbc_sublime
so would it be correct to say that it symbolises that the third in a minor scale is flat to the third in a major scale


yes, youve got it now

the 1 2 3 4 5 etc of a scale always relate to the major scale i think.

so you would say that a minor chord has a b3..... but that is the same as the 3rd of the minor scale.
#8
Quote by lbc_sublime
so would it be correct to say that it symbolises that the third in a minor scale is flat to the third in a major scale

everything is based off of the major scale
#9
First off, you got the Dm scale wrong. The Dm scale is D E F G A B C D. You forgot about the flat seventh. So, the formula is 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6, 7b, 1. Blah. I believe the original formula for the minor scale you used was 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b, 1, which...I have no idea what that would be considered lol (I think just a minor with an added flat sixth)

Anyways, the flat third is the F, because in the original Dmaj scale, the F is sharp. Also, you can say that the major chords are all created by using the 1, 3, 5, and 8 (octive of 1, which is the root note), such as Cmaj, which is C (1), E (3), G (5), and C (1 or 8). All minors are created using 1, 3b, 5, and 8, such as Amin, which is A (1), C (3b), E (5), and A (1 or 8).
My Equipment
  • Michael Kelly Patriot Custom
  • Vox Valvetronix 2x12
  • Fender 12-string Acoustic
  • Alvarez Nylon String Acoustic
#10
Quote by Ravenblacktear
First off, you got the Dm scale wrong. The Dm scale is D E F G A B C D. You forgot about the flat seventh. So, the formula is 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6, 7b, 1. Blah. I believe the original formula for the minor scale you used was 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b, 1, which...I have no idea what that would be considered lol (I think just a minor with an added flat sixth)

Anyways, the flat third is the F, because in the original Dmaj scale, the F is sharp. Also, you can say that the major chords are all created by using the 1, 3, 5, and 8 (octive of 1, which is the root note), such as Cmaj, which is C (1), E (3), G (5), and C (1 or 8). All minors are created using 1, 3b, 5, and 8, such as Amin, which is A (1), C (3b), E (5), and A (1 or 8).

D minor is D E F G A Bb C. The scale you posted is D Dorian.

The thing with the formulas like 1 b3 5, for the minor chord, is that they are in relation to the major scale. So to get a D minor chord, you would take the D major scale and apply that formula.

D E F# G A B C# is the D major scale. 1 b3 5 is our formula. So we take the 1/root, D, the flattened third/minor third, F, and the fifth/perfect fifth, A. There we have our D minor triad: D F A.
#11
Quote by DeathDealer
D-E-F# (D mayor)
1-2-3

D-E-F (D minor)
1-2-3b


No.
A major chord has the intervals 1-3-5, and a minor chord is 1-b3-5.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
Quote by Ravenblacktear
First off, you got the Dm scale wrong. The Dm scale is D E F G A B C D. You forgot about the flat seventh. So, the formula is 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6, 7b, 1. Blah. I believe the original formula for the minor scale you used was 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b, 1, which...I have no idea what that would be considered lol (I think just a minor with an added flat sixth)

Anyways, the flat third is the F, because in the original Dmaj scale, the F is sharp. Also, you can say that the major chords are all created by using the 1, 3, 5, and 8 (octive of 1, which is the root note), such as Cmaj, which is C (1), E (3), G (5), and C (1 or 8). All minors are created using 1, 3b, 5, and 8, such as Amin, which is A (1), C (3b), E (5), and A (1 or 8).


First off YOU got the Dm scale wrong it's D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C, and D Think you need to go back and check your scales The C is the b7th ....B, C#, D. Flatten the C and voila!

And although your chord construction is almost right you don't need the 8 or octave of the root note to make a chord.
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#13
Crap...you were right...well then, I feel stupid. At least I know now the error that I made. Oh, and yes, I know that you don't have to have the octive to make the chord. I was just thinking of the standard power chords that alot of people start off learning. Oh, and...I am sorry for giving false info...I thought I was wrong. My teacher (who is very slow at teaching me) hasn't taught me minors at all yet. I however, at least know that I was doing it wrong. lol. I feel really stupid right now...
My Equipment
  • Michael Kelly Patriot Custom
  • Vox Valvetronix 2x12
  • Fender 12-string Acoustic
  • Alvarez Nylon String Acoustic
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
No.
A major chord has the intervals 1-3-5, and a minor chord is 1-b3-5.

i think you spoke without looking at what letters i wrote out
#15
Quote by Ravenblacktear
Crap...you were right...well then, I feel stupid. At least I know now the error that I made. Oh, and yes, I know that you don't have to have the octive to make the chord. I was just thinking of the standard power chords that alot of people start off learning. Oh, and...I am sorry for giving false info...I thought I was wrong. My teacher (who is very slow at teaching me) hasn't taught me minors at all yet. I however, at least know that I was doing it wrong. lol. I feel really stupid right now...



don't feel stupid that si why we are all on here you know to help each other. where i got lost was i applied 1 b3 5 to the minor scale and got a C in there some where but when i played the chord got an f lol so i was trying to figure it out and now i understan it is relation to the major scale to make the chord

thank you to everyone that has helped me it is apreciated very much
#16
Quote by DeathDealer
D-E-F# (D mayor)
1-2-3

D-E-F (D minor)
1-2-3b


Erm both your notes and intervals are wrong Death?

D major, 1 - 3 - 5, D - F# - A

D minor, 1 - b3 - 5, D F A


And Raven don't feel stupid we all make mistakes, that's what the forums are for, to learn
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#17
Quote by DeathDealer
i think you spoke without looking at what letters i wrote out


No. I saw them.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. I saw them.

then you would know that D-E-F# is the start of the major scale

Quote by Peanut1614
Erm both your notes and intervals are wrong Death?

D major, 1 - 3 - 5, D - F# - A

D minor, 1 - b3 - 5, D F A


And Raven don't feel stupid we all make mistakes, that's what the forums are for, to learn

i wasn't showing him a chord
#19
Quote by DeathDealer
then you would know that D-E-F# is the start of the major scale


i wasn't showing him a chord


Apologies then, make it more clear next time to avoid confusion
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#20
Quote by Peanut1614
Apologies then, make it more clear next time to avoid confusion


He did. He placed the numbers underneath the notes.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#21
Quote by bluesrocker101
He did. He placed the numbers underneath the notes.


i saw that, but the question was about chords not the scale, id assumed he'd gotten the intervals wrong as well. And since he posted only a triad i'd assumed he was talking about the chord...
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#22
Quote by lbc_sublime
ok so the dminor scale is

D E F G A Bb C D

the notes in the Dminor are D F A

when you follow the formula: 1 b3 5

what is the b3. like you obviously don't flatten f cause the note in the chord is F. and it is not Fb/e#.

"edit"

i just mean does the b3 suppose to mean to flatten the note and if it does why is the note not flat


Keep in mind when looking at scale steps they are always labeled based on their relationship to a Major scale. a minor scale has 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7 so the 3 is already flat.

to reiterate this idea........

C,D,E,F,G,A,B (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) Major

C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7) minor

In a key with a sharp on the 3rd step... the minor version will just be natural, not flat:

D,E,F#,G,A,B,C# (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) Major

D,E,F,G,A,Bb,C (1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7) minor
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 30, 2007,
#23
Quote by Tsunoyukami
I find it much easier to look at chord construction from the major (even when forming minor chords).


D E F# G A B C# D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8


Therefore D Major (1, 3, 5) is composed of D, F# and A. D Minor, which consists of 1, b3 and 5, would be D, F and A.

I just personally find it easier to work it out from the major scale. However, coffeeguy9 is correct.


this guy is awesome he always helps me lol. i am actually form ontario too happy canada day tomorrow. i just misunderstood something about the way you form the chords from what you actually told me before. but like always you were correct

i understand now that the formula is to be apllied to the major scale thank you very much for your help.

my next question if any one is in here still if i take the notes D F# A can i make a D chord anywhere on the neck or would that make less sence with a cord structured like this and more of a bar chord.

how would that work to do a chord more up the neck wiht the same notes?

"edit"

would it still be a d chord but an octave or 2 higher? does that make sence?
Last edited by lbc_sublime at Jun 30, 2007,
#24
Quote by lbc_sublime

my next question if any one is in here still if i take the notes D F# A can i make a D chord anywhere on the neck or would that make less sence with a cord structured like this and more of a bar chord.

how would that work to do a chord more up the neck wiht the same notes?

"edit"

would it still be a d chord but an octave or 2 higher? does that make sence?


YES!!
if you play a root note with its 3rd and 5th.... it will always be the triad chord of the root note. regardless of where on the neck they notes are.
i think this is a very important part in learning the guitar.... i found that it is very easy to get 'stuck' when thinking chords need to be down in the conventional open positions.
#25
Just remember if you use an inversion of the chord, ie. the root note isnt a bass note you'd turn it into a slash chord. This just means that you put the bass after the slash. Say D/F# just means your playing a D chord with the F# as the bass note.
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.