#1

Ok, so, fire away:

What are modes?

I know that they're, well, I don't know....notes of a scale, starting on a different root not?

How do you use modes?

Are they like scales? Play them over a progression? Or do they have specific uses?

Modal formulas?

Yeah, I know how to work those out.
You simply MUST check out my music on
Reverbnation Downloads available here
Myspace Streaming Only


Especially for fans of Tool, APC, Avant-Garde, Ambient music, rock instrumentals, and fans of music in general. Will not disappoint.
#3

I have read the sticky. I'm just not sure how to use them.

Like, I know the mixolydian and phyrgian modes (box patterns + formulae), but where do I use them?
You simply MUST check out my music on
Reverbnation Downloads available here
Myspace Streaming Only


Especially for fans of Tool, APC, Avant-Garde, Ambient music, rock instrumentals, and fans of music in general. Will not disappoint.
#4
Quote by sTx

I have read the sticky. I'm just not sure how to use them.

Like, I know the mixolydian and phyrgian modes (box patterns + formulae), but where do I use them?

Wherever you want. It's your guitar, you're playing it.
#5
Quote by sTx

I have read the sticky. I'm just not sure how to use them.

Like, I know the mixolydian and phyrgian modes (box patterns + formulae), but where do I use them?

I concur with "wherever you want".

I don't have any answers grounded in music theory, but from personal experience, I can offer this:

Study the difference in sound between each mode, going up and down. Learn to recognise the difference between each one simply by hearing it ascend or descend.

Build up a "vocabulary" of adjectives you can use to describe each interval and scale. Say, "b5 - evil, mixolydian - medieval stuff"; once you know how they all sound, you can use what you know to get whatever you want.

Want a "spanish" sound? Go phrygian. Want a stereotypical egyptian sound? Go double harmonic major. Want a happy, but slightly suspenseful sound? Go lydian. Learn to recognise things like that and apply 'em to what you want.
#6
^^ When I said where, I meant which chords. For example, C mixolydian fits over which chords?
You simply MUST check out my music on
Reverbnation Downloads available here
Myspace Streaming Only


Especially for fans of Tool, APC, Avant-Garde, Ambient music, rock instrumentals, and fans of music in general. Will not disappoint.
#7
it'll fit over the chords in that key.I'm not sure what scale C Mixolydian is originated from, but you use the chords from that scale. that's what i've gathered anyway.
#8
ok sooyou seem to have a basic understanding.
the modes go liek this
ionian
dorian
phrygian
lydian
mixolydian
aeolian
locrian
then back to ionian

each of these modes occur when it starts on the notes of the scales in order so the first note would be ionian. the second would be dorian so on and so forth.
the chords work the same way as well. they would follow like this
Maj7
Minor7
Minor7
Maj7
Dom7
Min7
Min7b5

so depending on what chord your soloing over the mode you play is going to change. so half of the answer to your question is youve already been using modes in your solos with out realizing.
however there are a lot of stuff where you change the modes you play so that your notes you choose would fit the chords
such as a 1 4 5 blues in say A
The chords would go A7,D7, E7 so you would play A mixolydian then D mixoldyan and then e mixolydian.
theres also modal stuff that i only partially understand but let me try my best to explain it

so modal music is when the soloist changes the mode of the song rather than the chord progression underneath it changing it. so in regular progression say the chords went Em7 Am7 D7 Gmaj7 so a 6 2 5 1 in G major, you could just play g major scale and you would automatically be playing aeolian then dorian then mixolydian then ionian. in modal how ever there would be very few chord changes so for example

the chord progression goes Amin7 for 16 bars then Bmin7 for 16 bars you would have the option of going back and fourht from 3 different modes for each chord.
since there are 3 minor modes: dorian phryigian and aeolian, you could play A dorian or A phrygian or A aeolian for the first 16 bars then B dorian or B phrygian or B aeolian for the next 16 so you would be change the modes rather than the chords changing the modes.

i tried my best to explain it well but if i didnt then let me know il try again:P
#9
^^ C major: CDEFGAB
You simply MUST check out my music on
Reverbnation Downloads available here
Myspace Streaming Only


Especially for fans of Tool, APC, Avant-Garde, Ambient music, rock instrumentals, and fans of music in general. Will not disappoint.
#10
Quote by sTx
^^ C major: CDEFGAB

wrong c mixoldyan has a Bb and if you played a Bb over a C major 7 chord that would sound terrrible unless you used it as a passing note
#11
Quote by sTx
^^ When I said where, I meant which chords. For example, C mixolydian fits over which chords?

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

C7, C9, C11, C13. Use that minor seventh. It "fits" over other chords too. You can use it to play over Fsus4, for instance. It wouldn't exactly sound Mixolydian, but there would be no note clashes.
Last edited by kirbyrocknroll at Jul 15, 2007,
#12
Quote by jason_lee_91
so you would play A mixolydian then D mixoldyan and then e mixolydian.



HAH! mixOLDian? What's he soloing over, his dentures??? HAH! you crack me up!


^ oh yea, i read something about the whole sus4 thing, where like an eleventh chord if you take the 7 or something it kinda turns into a sus4 chord, that's interesting as hell. right, not the 7th the third, duh, sus4 takes out the third. like for jazz if they want it to fit into a minor key or something. freakin AWESOME. i love theory.
Last edited by Glen'sHeroicAct at Jul 15, 2007,
#13
Quote by sTx

Ok, so, fire away:

What are modes?

I know that they're, well, I don't know....notes of a scale, starting on a different root not?

How do you use modes?

Are they like scales? Play them over a progression? Or do they have specific uses?

Modal formulas?

Yeah, I know how to work those out.


They are their own separate scale, which happen to be starting on a different note in a major scale.

You use modes over the chords that can be played under. For instance:

G Aeolian: G A Bb C D Eb F
Learn chord construction and then you can play any chord underneath the mode that has those notes. But make sure the progression revolves around Gm and the G note.

Its a brief explanation, but I don't have the time to write a big lesson up right now. I wish I could, but I'm terribly busy.

Btw, your font is sexy.
DANNY

Quote by kevinm4435 to some guy
hey d00d i herd u dont like shred u r a genius 4 thinkin dat. all shred is fukin lame wit no soul u no wat im sayin??
#14
Okay, a mode of the major scale contains the same notes as the major scale, but the root is a different note. This is just explaining where modes come from, but I don't think of them like this when actually using them.
D Ionian (major) is D E F# G A B C#
E Dorian (second mode) is E F# G A B C# D
A mixolydian (fifth mode) is A B C# D E F# G
They contain the same notes but start on different root notes.

So, they contain the same notes but they are definately different scales. I think of modes as alterations to the major scale.
Ionian (Major) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Lydian 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
Mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian (Natural Minor) 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

So, for F Phrygian you start with the F major scale, F G A Bb C D E
Then flatten the 2 3 6 and 7 to get 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
And you end up with the notes F Gb Ab Bb C Db Eb.

Now, when playing modes over chords, look at the intervals making up the chord and the intervals making up the mode. If they match up, they will sound good together.
Say a Cm chord comes up, thats 1 b3 5. Look at the modes and you see that Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian all contain those intervals.
So you could play C Dorian, C Phrygian or C Aeolian, which one you chose will give a different feel.
Now if an Amaj7 comes along, thats 1 3 5 7. Compare that to the modes and you see that you can play A Ionian or A Lydian, againg giving different feels.
What about a Bbm7b5? You see that the only mode with 1 b3 b5 b7 is Locrian, so you can play Bb Locrian
With an E7 (1 3 5 b7) you find that only Mixolydian fits, so you can play E mixolydian

JohnlJones Jazz-Theory Bit:
With that E7 you could play E Phrygian, with the b3 funtioning as a #2, to outline an altered dominant chord.
E7 - 1 3 4 b7
E Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
This gives the intervals 1 b2 #2 3 4 5 b6 b7 which is a _11b9#9b13 chord.

Remember none of this is law, it's just a guide so don't be afraid to experiment.
Hope this helps
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#15
^^^^ that did help!

something i struggle with is seeing how to use more chords!

i mean, at the early level of theory, we learn-
Imaj7
iimin7
iiimin7
IVmaj7
V7
Vimin7
Viimin7b5 (did i get that one right?)

SO, how do we implement suspended chords (or any other chord) and how do we decide when to use them???

I mean, obviously the different modes have their sounds, often compared to chords they sound good with.... but, what determines these chords? If i write them all out and take the 1, 3, 5, 7 down, will i come up with a new list like the one above for each mode???? if so, i should do it!!!!!!
#16
Here's a little example with suspended chords:

Let's say you have this progression. Dsus2 - Csus4 playing over and over again.

Take a look at the intervals that make up the chords, and compare them to the modes. sus2 chords have the root, major second, and perfect fifth (1 2 5) and sus4 chords have root, perfect fourth, and perfect fifth (1 4 5). Those numbers in parentheses are the scale degrees compared to the major scale of the root of the chord.

Now take your mode formula:

Ionian (Major) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Lydian 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
Mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian (Natural Minor) 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

Now, if you want no note clashes, you'll see that the modes that fit with the sus2 chord are Ionian, Dorian, Lydian, Mixolydian, and Aeolian. Let's review our example progression: Dsus2 - Csus4. Looks like over Dsus2, we can use D Ionian, D Dorian, D Lydian, D Mixolydian, and D Aeolian. You can get a variety of sounds here The thing about sus2 and sus4 chords is that since they lack a third, you can choose from modes with major and minor tonalities, giving you some new options.

Let's see what'll work over our Csus4 chord. We see that Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Mixolydian, and Aeolian fit well. So that gives us C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Mixolydian, and C Aeolian. Once again, more options when it comes to what sound you want.

Just see what chords fir over what mode(s) and you can pick from there. You could add some notes clashes if you want some dissonance though.
#17
Quote by jason_lee_91
wrong c mixoldyan has a Bb and if you played a Bb over a C major 7 chord that would sound terrrible unless you used it as a passing note


I was talking about C maj.
You simply MUST check out my music on
Reverbnation Downloads available here
Myspace Streaming Only


Especially for fans of Tool, APC, Avant-Garde, Ambient music, rock instrumentals, and fans of music in general. Will not disappoint.