#1
Right, lets take 11/12 timing. It is the same as 4/4 but with the last quarter note shortened by a quarter yes? If not, well could someone clear it up


I'll get to my question in a bit!
#2
When you write a time signature, the first number is the amount of beats in a measure, and the second number is what type of note gets one beat.

Twelfth notes = no.

If you wanted to shorten a 4/4 measure by a quarter of a beat, you would be looking at 15/16, as it is one sixteenth note short.
#3
Look into time signatures a bit before you start questioning yourself about 11/12 timing, because.... there is no such thing.

The only numbers that can be on the bottom of a time signature are 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc (unless you introduce pointless irrational time signatures according to Wikipedia).

And yes, what you are trying to explain would be 15/16 time.

AND SO I WATCH YOU FROM AFAR

#4
Why can' there be 11/12 timing?

Also, is it possible instead of saying 15/16 timing, to use 4/4 but play odd notes per bar?
#5
Megatallica is right. 11/12 is possible.

A 12 note would be the equivelent of dotted eighth note. It actually might sound very cool if used in some metric modulation and stuff. Any note can be expressed in a time signature, even dotted notes. Ever listened to a samba/bossanova/spanish tune and not been able to figure out the time signature? it was probably in 2/3...a very poplar time in certain types of latino music.
Last edited by PinkFloyd73 at Jul 19, 2007,
#6
Quote by PinkFloyd73
Megatallica is right. 11/12 is possible.

A 12 note would be the equivelent of dotted eighth note. It actually might sound very cool if used in some metric modulation and stuff. Any note can be expressed in a time signature, even dotted notes. Ever listened to a samba/bossanova/spanish tune and not been able to figure out the time signature? it was probably in 2/3...a very poplar time in certain types of latino music.


Emm... no, only 2 4 8 16 32 and 64 are valid denominators.

If you want a dotted note to take up a beat, use compound time. If a knowledgeable musician wanted to compose a piece in 2/3 he would write it in 6/4, which is essentially 2 dotted half notes.
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#8
Quote by Muphin
Emm... no, only 2 4 8 16 32 and 64 are valid denominators.

If you want a dotted note to take up a beat, use compound time. If a knowledgeable musician wanted to compose a piece in 2/3 he would write it in 6/4, which is essentially 2 dotted half notes.


YEs i know that i am just saying that 11/12 is a very valid time signature, and is not impossible. I have played pieces with 3/12 time, and even one with 12/3 time. If you research some old celtic music, you will definitely find some time signitures like this. Any note can be expressed in a time signature, so dont say that there are only certain valid denominators.
#9
Quote by PinkFloyd73
YEs i know that i am just saying that 11/12 is a very valid time signature, and is not impossible. I have played pieces with 3/12 time, and even one with 12/3 time. If you research some old celtic music, you will definitely find some time signitures like this. Any note can be expressed in a time signature, so dont say that there are only certain valid denominators.


What would 12 express by your logic? A dotted eighth note I assume. Right?

If a composer wanted 11 dotted eighth notes per measure, they would write 33/16. There are three 16th notes in a dotted eighth note, and 11*3 is 33. Although I would just shorted it to 3/16, as 33/16 is too awkward by my standards.
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#10
timings with subdivisions of 3 are still quite a new thing at least to the main stream .
it takes time for these idea to be accepted into the status quo .
if 4 is a crochet and 8 is a quaver then i can unerstand the logic of 6 being a dotted quaver .
traditionally this may of been seen as in correct , but no more than seeing a pair of straight quavers being swung by jazz musicians must of seemed when 1st used .
theory does evolve .
i could go on ....
take guitar tab some musicians have snubbed this , how many people say " I Dont read music only tab " i find tab really useful,
all i am saying is keep an open mind to theory
#11
Quote by damien guitar
timings with subdivisions of 3 are still quite a new thing at least to the main stream .
it takes time for these idea to be accepted into the status quo .
if 4 is a crochet and 8 is a quaver then i can unerstand the logic of 6 being a dotted quaver .
traditionally this may of been seen as in correct , but no more than seeing a pair of straight quavers being swung by jazz musicians must of seemed when 1st used .
theory does evolve .
i could go on ....
take guitar tab some musicians have snubbed this , how many people say " I Dont read music only tab " i find tab really useful,
all i am saying is keep an open mind to theory


Some so called evolutions are not necessary though. Like allowing dotted notes as the denominators for time signatures, or accepting tabs over standard notation. With guitar tabs you not only lose articulation, dynamics, key signatures and time signatures, but you also lose the ability to easily transpose the music for another instrument.

As for the meter issue, you are aware that many dots can be added to a note, right? What number would be assigned to a half note with two dots? That is a half note plus a quarter note, plus an eighth note... See, it just doesn't work. Dotted notes cannot be used as denominators, and never will be.
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#12
using a double dotted note as a measure would end up with something ridiculous like 4/7.25 !! its more like a phone number than a time signature , so yes i can see the flaw , but going back to the analogy of swing quavers they were probally used as it got the idea across in a direct if all be it slang way .
if people understand a bar of 4/4 and the a bar of 4/12 and it works for them then i say great what ever works .
the idea got me thing of the difference in tempo of a say quaver triplets and three quavers .
saying that if you was to use 12/16 ? instaed of 4/12 then thats makes sense to me too ,
with the group of asymetric patterens of notes sometime people mistake them for say triplets ... i think im loosing myself here !