#1
Yes, I realize there's another thread below this one about one, but my question is different and I don't want to hijack his thread.

Now, I play a lot of metal (Killswitch Engage, Lamb of God, As Blood Runs Black, Between the Buried and Me, Shadows Fall, etc.) and I've been looking for an amp to replace my 5150.

At the moment, I'm really liking the Mesa F Series, but I've noticed the Genz Benz lately and wanted to know how it compares in tone to an F Series and 5150. I'm looking for something that's more deffined and not quite as muddy sounding as my 5150 as well as something that is quite versatile (I like playing classic rock/some blues sometimes) and has a good clean channel - unlike 5150s, but still has crushing distortion.

I'm also open to any suggestions, but I'm not a fan of the Recto series, they sound too bassy and muddy to me, so don't recommend one of those.

Thanks for you help guys!
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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#2
5150 doesnt stand a chance if you looking at something that is more tone defined , im happy with the amp , it was the cheapest high gain amp in its class ( in south africa ) seeing that they charge us 37000 ZAR for a Dual recto halfstack and 22000 ZAR for a Framus dragon ( just for the head ) . at the end i paid 15000 for my el diablo 100 AND 2 x 12 gflex cab . enyway im just a little consern with reliability issues on these bad boys , BUT the service and quick responce i got form them were fantastic. My head is 4 months old and still growling like a beast so im happy .
IMHO . the el diablo is way better than the 5150 ( tone wize ) , got way more defining tone .
The only thing that sucks really really really bad on the el diablo is the Reverb , Yuck ! .
But its got nice cleans too.

ive never played the F Series's to i cant help you there .
Gibson SG spesial

Marshall 1987X MKII Head
Genz Benz El diablo 100 Head
Genz Benz Gflex 212 cab.

Korg AX1500G multi effects pedal
#3
^Cool, thanks for the info. Anyone know of any bands that use Diablos or have any clips I can hear somewhere? The Guitar Center I went to today said they won't have anymore in for a few weeks (someone bought the only one they had) so I won't be able to try it till then.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#4
dude , dont judge the amps from the vid clips they got on the Genz Benz site , they are terrible , there is one video on you tube , where a guy is playing the El diablo 60 combo and goes through all the diffrent settings and channels , sound is screwed though , you tube is the best place to look for vids . there is one where they use a diablo for a recording in a studio , i like that one , shows off the gain , low responce and how well it sounds in the mix . Bit just remember , there is alot more that amp can do than just that.
Gibson SG spesial

Marshall 1987X MKII Head
Genz Benz El diablo 100 Head
Genz Benz Gflex 212 cab.

Korg AX1500G multi effects pedal
#5
Quote by t3mp
dude , dont judge the amps from the vid clips they got on the Genz Benz site , they are terrible , there is one video on you tube , where a guy is playing the El diablo 60 combo and goes through all the diffrent settings and channels , sound is screwed though , you tube is the best place to look for vids . there is one where they use a diablo for a recording in a studio , i like that one , shows off the gain , low responce and how well it sounds in the mix . Bit just remember , there is alot more that amp can do than just that.


I wasn't going to judge it off video clips and stuff, I was just wondering if it's something worth waiting 2 weeks to look at or if I should just go with the Mesa instead.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#6
Yeah I dunno about the Mesa F (Mesa ae too overpriced here) but I can vouch for the El Diablo being a great amp, really versatile, nice tone and their power reduction stuff is cool as it changes the tone since it is like triode and pentode crap. Iplayed the 60W head and it was insanely loud. The controls are really cool too how they click around instead of being a smooth turn (if that makes sense) as it helps for you to remember your settings easier.

For another amp I would reccomend you try ENGL maybe the Fireball or for more versatility the Screamer 50. I find ENGL to be really nice and tight and the Screamer is 4 channels which makes it really versatile and good value for the price.
#7
Well, the F-50 is the same price as the El Diablo here (if I'm not mistaken). I'll look into ENGLs, I hear they're really good, but they might be over my price range, I'd be buying used, max $1000 or so.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#8
I sold my El Diablo 100 head few weeks ago because I hated the dynamics of it. The sound was muddy and processed compared to my Laney. Even on the dynamic mode it felt too compressed and sterile almost solidstate like. I found it impossible to get a nice crunch with good bite. Palm mutes were mushy as hell.

Now, it is possible that mine was a particularly bad one. It is one of the early model that doesn't have external bias points.

I'd recommend ENGL Fireball - from the clips I heard, they sound like exactly what you need.
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#9
my only concern with the el-diablo is that you think the recto is muddy- if you think that, you may think the ED is too. plus a lot of people hate them (not me, but a lot of others do).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
my only concern with the el-diablo is that you think the recto is muddy- if you think that, you may think the ED is too. plus a lot of people hate them (not me, but a lot of others do).


Well, it's not that I think the recto is overly muddy or anything, but when compared to the F-30 I played, it didn't sound as defined.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#11
bump! Anyone else played one and have any views/opinions/suggestions?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#12
i haven't tried them head to head, that's my problem. considering so many people don't like them, you'd need to try one- i wouldn't buy one without trying.

Obviously personal preference trumps all, but if, say, 80% of people who've tried the el diablo hate it, there's obviously more chance of you being one of that 80%...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Really, the Genz Benz stuff are really expensive in Europe?!?!?
I like the 100-watt head, the 60-watt combo was not-that-good.
I've also heard nice clips on the net, and Fates Warnin on FWX recorded with one, killer sounds, but still they process the sound so much in the studio that cannot compare to the real thing.
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#14
Alright, thanks for the comments guys. Anyone have anything else to add? Or perhaps a different amp in the same price range ($1000 max, used)?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#15
Im just surprised that the ED is expensive over there. Here in aus i can get one for $1700 new. The cheapest F series i can get though is $2,595.00 AUD for the F-30 combo..
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#16
Quote by .arkness:.
Im just surprised that the ED is expensive over there. Here in aus i can get one for $1700 new. The cheapest F series i can get though is $2,595.00 AUD for the F-30 combo..


I believe they're both about $1300, actually the F-30 might be cheaper, $1200?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#17
Quote by MatrixClaw
I believe they're both about $1300, actually the F-30 might be cheaper, $1200?



Brand new, an F-100 Combo is about $1,300 + tax
F-100 head is $1,200
F-50 Head is $1,150
F-50 Combo is $1,200.

The F-30's have EL-34's which give you a different tone than the bigger F series.
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#18
Quote by MESAexplorer
Brand new, an F-100 Combo is about $1,300 + tax
F-100 head is $1,200
F-50 Head is $1,150
F-50 Combo is $1,200.

The F-30's have EL-34's which give you a different tone than the bigger F series.


Really? I could've sworn the F-30 at GC had a pricetag of $1,250 on it, hmm...

I liked both equally as much, but the F-30 seemed to sound bad with alder body guitars, the F-50 sounded fine though, don't know why it would do that though, odd. Fine with me though, I prefer Mahogony anyway.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#19
Quote by MatrixClaw
Really? I could've sworn the F-30 at GC had a pricetag of $1,250 on it, hmm...

I liked both equally as much, but the F-30 seemed to sound bad with alder body guitars, the F-50 sounded fine though, don't know why it would do that though, odd. Fine with me though, I prefer Mahogony anyway.


Guitar Center is slightly overpriced.

They aren't an official Mesa Dealer either, Mesa's prices are fixed at their official retailers.

Alder can give you a flabby tone, not too much clarity and definition, lower wattage amps and 1x12 speakers don't punch as hard. Put 2 and 2 together, the tone isn't going to be outstanding.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
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#20
Quote by MESAexplorer
Guitar Center is slightly overpriced.

They aren't an official Mesa Dealer either, Mesa's prices are fixed at their official retailers.

Alder can give you a flabby tone, not too much clarity and definition, lower wattage amps and 1x12 speakers don't punch as hard. Put 2 and 2 together, the tone isn't going to be outstanding.


Yeah, I was a fan of Jackson for that fact, made my amps sound like crap and I had to do crazy EQing.

How would they be able to sell Mesa if they're not an official dealer? Don't all places that sell Mesa have to have a fixed price on the amps?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#21
Quote by MatrixClaw
Yeah, I was a fan of Jackson for that fact, made my amps sound like crap and I had to do crazy EQing.

How would they be able to sell Mesa if they're not an official dealer? Don't all places that sell Mesa have to have a fixed price on the amps?


GC buys used stuff

You don't have to be an official dealer to sell their stuff, but to carry a warranty and the ability to insure an amp, yes you then have to be an official dealer.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#22
Quote by MESAexplorer
GC buys used stuff

You don't have to be an official dealer to sell their stuff, but to carry a warranty and the ability to insure an amp, yes you then have to be an official dealer.


They sell them new with warranties on them though... All their other amps were priced what they are at other stores, maybe I just remember the price on another amp. It's possible the F-30 was $1,050.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#23
i'd have said alder was tighter than mahogany...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
i'd have said alder was tighter than mahogany...


I find mahogany more defined on the low end and highs, with the right EQing, you wouldn't have an uncontrollable low end.

Alder is one of those woods where it really matters on how good of quality the wood itself is. If it is like ESP KH-2 Alder or JEM alder, it's going to be bright, have no flab, and a nice tone, if it's like Epiphone alder then it's going to have a really flabby midrange, which is the exact opposite of what a guitarist wants.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#25
^ possibly, yeah. Also, from what i'm talking about, normally alder is paired with a maple bolt-on neck which tightens things too.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
Maybe it's that way, my bass guitar has some expensive root-alder on top and sounds really tight, even unpluged
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#27
can the reverb on the el diablo be changed out for soemthing better?
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#28
Quote by scarekrow
can the reverb on the el diablo be changed out for soemthing better?


Don't use the reverb and use a reverb pedal or rack unit?
#29
Yeah i could i was wondering though if something like that were possible, not reallygonna do it, i just like to know things.
Epi Les Paul/Swineshead Venom pickups
THD: UniValve Head
Lopo line 4x12/Celestion V30's @ 16ohms
#30
Wow haha i was looking at the forum and saw my thread and was like, wow, I posted that a long time ago, someone's still answering questions? :P
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com