#1
Hi,

I brought an ashdown fallen angel 60w from a mate a couple of months ago, and had been running through the 12" speaker of my marshall combo. I decided to get a cab and went for the matching ashdown 412A. Only problem is the speakers sound like gash. They have no overdrive, not a nice tone at all. I thought it was the amp that was crap, but when I plugged the amp into my mates cab it sounded ace.

I play in a pop punk band but we use quite a heavy sound, so just think of a metal sound really, lots of gain, good bass, and a nice cutting treble. No country and western, which is what I am getting at the minute :P

Any suggestions as to what speakers I might get to replace the crap ones? I was thinking celestions obviously, but is there any other good makes out there without the price tag. I also dont know what wattage I need. I read that if you put lower wattage speakers in the cab then you get more gain, would this be at detriment to volume? What about blowing them up, if I put 25w speakers in for example would I blow the thing up?!

You know what I mean anyway, link me. And give me the model numbers you are suggesting, not just the makes, please?

Thanks in advance.

Matt
Last edited by Matt-EB0 at Jul 26, 2007,
#2
Quote by Matt-EB0
Hi,

I brought an ashdown fallen angel 60w from a mate a couple of months ago, and had been running through the 12" speaker of my marshall combo. I decided to get a cab and went for the matching ashdown 412A. Only problem is the speakers sound like gash. They have no overdrive, not a nice tone at all. I thought it was the amp that was crap, but when I plugged the amp into my mates cab it sounded ace.

I play in a pop punk band but we use quite a heavy sound, so just think of a metal sound really, lots of gain, good bass, and a nice cutting treble. No country and western, which is what I am getting at the minute :P

Any suggestions as to what speakers I might get to replace the crap ones? I was thinking celestions obviously, but is there any other good makes out there without the price tag. I also dont know what wattage I need. I read that if you put lower wattage speakers in the cab then you get more gain, would this be at detriment to volume? What about blowing them up, if I put 25w speakers in for example would I blow the thing up?!

You know what I mean anyway, link me. And give me the model numbers you are suggesting, not just the makes, please?

Thanks in advance.

Matt
I have no idea what you are talking about when you use terms like gain vs volume in reference to speakers. Whatever the rated power of your amp, your speaker power rating (total) should be at least double that. Power handling capacity is not directly related to volume. Look for the efficiency to compare. The ratings will be in dB @ 1watt / 1 meter. The higher the number, the louder for the same power input.

If you liked the sound of your mate's cab with your amp, you might look at the brand/model of speakers it has, eh?
Meadows
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#3
It has celestions, but im not sure what kind, its an old cab, without opening up I wouldnt know.

Someone told me that modern 300w metal amps use 150w speakers for more gain apparently. My amp is 60w but im pretty sure that the matching cab is only 100w, thats not double, is it.

Are these eminence speakers any good? How do they compare to celestions? Does wiring methods affect the sound. My amp can do 4 or 8 ohm mono and stereo and has a dedicated 16ohm output too.

Matt
#4
Celestion Vintage 30s would be perfect for what you want - 60w handling, preferred by most metalheads for their mid and treble - heavy tone. As long as the rating of the speakers you're using is higher than the max wattage of the amp, I doubt it matters. If using a 10w speaker and you're running the amp at 2 volume then it won't kill it - 60w is only its maximum output.
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#5
Quote by Matt-EB0
It has celestions, but im not sure what kind, its an old cab, without opening up I wouldnt know.

Someone told me that modern 300w metal amps use 150w speakers for more gain apparently. My amp is 60w but im pretty sure that the matching cab is only 100w, thats not double, is it.

Are these eminence speakers any good? How do they compare to celestions? Does wiring methods affect the sound. My amp can do 4 or 8 ohm mono and stereo and has a dedicated 16ohm output too.

Matt
I'd always get a second opinion when getting advice from that someone. Using terms like gain when referring to speakers is just strange. btw, if he's talking about using 4 150w speakers, that's 600w total. That sound realistic for a safety margin on a 300w amp. If he's talking about a single 150w speaker on a 300w amp, that's not a good idea, unless you're VERY careful about volume.

a 60w amp clean through a 100w cab is no problem, but if you dime it, you don't have enough margin. You might burn out the speakers. Speakers are usually rated for the amount of power they can handle with a sine-wave. The signal from an amp that's dimed is more like a square-wave, and usually quite a bit more than the rated power. Too risky for me with anything less than 2x rating on the cab.

I've used an Eminence speaker only once, as a replacement in a TOA pa cab. It seemed average. The efficiency was a little lacking compared to the original. It was an 18" 200w new (open-box) for $50, so I wasn't complaining.

You want to match the impedance of the cab to the impedance of the amp, for maximum power transfer.

You have many ways to accomplish this:

4 16-ohm speakers all in parallel = 4 ohms
4 4-ohm speakers in 2 parallel sets of series pairs = 4 ohms.
4 8-ohm speakers in 2 parallel sets of series pairs = 8 ohms.
4 4-ohm speakers all in series = 16 ohms
etc.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#6
Aha! I think you answered one of my questions there without realising it.

You said by using 4 x 150w speakers in the cab, I would get a rating of 600w. Does this depend on whether it is wired in series or parallel?

so if I put 4 x 75w speakers in, I would have a cab of 300w, even though the speakers arent capable alone when wired together they are!? Thats good news if that is the case. So if we say the minimum cab wattage is twice that of the amp then I need 120w of cab (although the guy I brought it off said he modded it to 80w, but I am doubtful of that) even if it is 80w then I still only need 160w, which with 4 speakers would be 40w each?

Matt