#1
Ok my drummer and I are having a majorly bad time staying in time with each other, mainly because we are better at having me starting a song and him joining, but if we do the other it always gets messed up, because I am trying to hard to stay in time, and if he changes up the rhythym and I am not watching him it gets F*cked up. My solution was that it was ok that I was off time sometimes anyway, but he wants everything timed exactly right between the drums and guitar. I don't think people will really care because I am the only guitarist in the band anyway. Maybe we should find a rhythym guitarist for my drummer to deal with so I can focus more on the lead guitar parts?
#3
WRONG.
buy a metronome and practice with it. there's NEVER any excuse for being offtime, unless you're purposely going atempo.
gear?
coming soon... parker fly mojo flame
ibanezes: rg350dx frankenstein * rg7620 7-string
fenders: telecaster plus * stratocaster plus

line 6: pod xt live * ax2 212
other: laney vh100r * mesa dual rectifier * monster cables
#4
If you're the only guitarist, that makes his concern even more legitimate. You can't cover yourself screwing up with someone else. And I'm with the drummer on this one. Bad timing is the ultimate way of sounding like amateurs.
#5
Yeah I see your points, but the main idea I had was that the more we play the songs the more familiar with them we get, so couldn't it help if we just practice more? And a practice is somewhat of a hard thing to come by; because of the drummer.


Edit: Does anyone think I could get away with being slightly out of time on our songs, and not cover songs? I mean people wouldn't really be able to tell, or care would they?
Last edited by G-man05 at Jul 30, 2007,
#6
Yeah, I think it'd sound really sloppy. I'd practice with a metronome, and do some quick recordings on your computer playing along with some songs, it's a lot easier to hear how you sound when you aren't concentrating on playing.

Try not to get into the habit of having bad timing, because it'll be really hard to break later on.
#7
Quote by G-man05
Yeah I see your points, but the main idea I had was that the more we play the songs the more familiar with them we get, so couldn't it help if we just practice more? And a practice is somewhat of a hard thing to come by; because of the drummer.


Edit: Does anyone think I could get away with being slightly out of time on our songs, and not cover songs? I mean people wouldn't really be able to tell, or care would they?


Yes they would. Unless you're some insane avant-garde experimental jazz fusion group playing in 13.5/8 all the time you're probably going to have relatively standard rhythms and stuff that people will notice things wrong with. And timing problems can make people otherwise great seem like noobs.
#8
Quote by grampastumpy
Yes they would. Unless you're some insane avant-garde experimental jazz fusion group playing in 13.5/8 all the time you're probably going to have relatively standard rhythms and stuff that people will notice things wrong with. And timing problems can make people otherwise great seem like noobs.


13.5 is not a legitimate numerator!!!11!

/Jerk

Anyways, you gotta be tight, threadstarter. People WILL notice if you are not in time. Try this: Get the drummer to drop a pretty basic beat in 4/4 to a metronome at about 80bpm at first, and try going up and down the major scale in whole notes. Then move to half notes, and then quarter notes, eighth notes, and eventually 32nd notes if you're that quick enough. This would be a good routine to start and end practice with, as it will build yours and your drummer's sense of rhythm. As you get better start setting the metronome faster. And if you have a bassist, get him in on this.
Quote by Godzilla1969
I love you, Muphin. You have great taste in music.

Quote by Pacifica112J
Muphin > You

The Cooperation
#9
Quote by Muphin
13.5 is not a legitimate numerator!!!11!

/Jerk

Anyways, you gotta be tight, threadstarter. People WILL notice if you are not in time. Try this: Get the drummer to drop a pretty basic beat in 4/4 to a metronome at about 80bpm at first, and try going up and down the major scale in whole notes. Then move to half notes, and then quarter notes, eighth notes, and eventually 32nd notes if you're that quick enough. This would be a good routine to start and end practice with, as it will build yours and your drummer's sense of rhythm. As you get better start setting the metronome faster. And if you have a bassist, get him in on this.


It was a joke.

Other than that, +1. Bad timing is absolutely a massive plague upon otherwise good musicians, especially guitarists.
#10
Really man - bottom line.

YOU need to work on YOUR timing.

Get a metronome, or use one online like metronomeonline.com and get your act together.

Do that for a week or two and he may just be impressed and happy - otherwise he might just leave you =)

Typically, from what I've experienced jamming and watching others jam - the song is made, however.

Usually it starts with a guitar riff, then everything else builds onto it.. but once the song is made ands done - the DRUM IS THE BASE. Everyone follows the drums from that point on.
#11
if you dont have good timing, I really doubt your lead playing will be anything better than horrible
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Tribute (Bare Knuckle Nailbombs)
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul (Seymour Duncan Pegasus and Sentinent)
-Ibanez S470 (Dimarzio D-sonic and Humbucker from Hell)
-PRS SE Custom (Guitarforce Black Diamond and Lord of the Blues)

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
EVH 5150III EL-34 50w
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Boss Super Chorus
Bogner Uberschall
Ibanez DE7 Delay
Electro-Harmonix Power Booster
Fender PT100 Pedal Tuner

Strings:
Ernie Ball Skinny Top/Heavy Bottom 10-52
#12
Quote by JLT73
if you dont have good timing, I really doubt your lead playing will be anything better than horrible


That's what I was thinking. If you cant keep time on rhythm, how can you expect to keep time in soloing?
#13
Quote by Derickonfire
Really man - bottom line.

YOU need to work on YOUR timing.

Get a metronome, or use one online like metronomeonline.com and get your act together.

Do that for a week or two and he may just be impressed and happy - otherwise he might just leave you =)

Typically, from what I've experienced jamming and watching others jam - the song is made, however.

Usually it starts with a guitar riff, then everything else builds onto it.. but once the song is made ands done - the DRUM IS THE BASE. Everyone follows the drums from that point on.


Alright I guess I'll start by working on my timing for a week or two, then I'll try everything else everyone said; thanks for the suggestions and criticisims everyone.
#14
Quote by G-man05
Edit: Does anyone think I could get away with being slightly out of time on our songs, and not cover songs? I mean people wouldn't really be able to tell, or care would they?


No, people will be able to tell. Even if they can't say exactly what's wrong, they'll know it doesn't sound right.
#15
i hope you didn't say this right:
Quote by G-man05
Alright I guess I'll start by working on my timing for a week or two, then I'll try everything else everyone said; thanks for the suggestions and criticisims everyone.

yes, you did. a week or two? any serious guitar player will tell you working on rhythm (which INCLUDES timing, playing with a metronome, etc.) is essential to becoming a great guitar player. a week or two?!? i think not. i've been playing for 10 years, and i still practice with a metronome every time i sit down to seriously practice.
gear?
coming soon... parker fly mojo flame
ibanezes: rg350dx frankenstein * rg7620 7-string
fenders: telecaster plus * stratocaster plus

line 6: pod xt live * ax2 212
other: laney vh100r * mesa dual rectifier * monster cables
#16
Quote by DougC84
a week or two?!? i think not. i've been playing for 10 years, and i still practice with a metronome every time i sit down to seriously practice.


I agree whole heartedly, I've been playing for about 6 years now and ALWAYS practice with my trusty metronome, I'd never have gotten anywhere without it... The metronome helps you play faster through slow progression and keeps the music flowing instead of just resonating back and forth. The metronome makes it SO much easier to play odd time signatures (7/4, 9/8, 11/8, 5/4...) and most importantly, it makes band playing so much more dynamic. Say, your drummer has a cool riff he wants to play with in 5/4 time... if you have good timing on your own (independently) you don't HAVE to play a riff in 5/4 over top of him, but can play a riff in 3/4, 4/4... or any other number of time signatures so long as you have a resolution back to the start of some sort... it's fun... you should definitely try it once you have your feet completely soaked (read: not just wet, as in, beginner) in metronome practicing.

...off time playing pisses me off more than anything when I go watch local live shows... it kills the entire musical experience for me, even if it's just for 3 or 4 bars... it just destroys it all.

And, one last thing, I know I'm going to come off sounding like a dick, but I really don't like reading you say that you'll "just sound off, and no one will notice", mostly because it tells me that you don't really care about your music, and that you definitely don't care about your listeners... and, to me, that is the single worst attitude a musician can have... don't ever say that, or even think it... this is music, the tiniest detail makes all the difference! Make it all perfect... it all counts, man.
#17
Don't just practice with a metronome, practice with a simple drum-beat in the backround as well, to get used to what a drum sounds like.

I'm serious about this, you would be surprised how some people who are used to the steady click of the metronome get thrown off by fill ins and anything that isn't a kick snare kick kick snare beat.


And something for you to think about: even if nobody would notice that you and your band are playing off-time... would you feel comfortable knowing that you guys are playing terribly "wrong"?


Oh and by the way, it is ESSENTIAL for a lead guitarist to be able to play "in" time. Only then, you will know when it is ok to get "off" time.


Really, you can imagine the phrase "time" to be an empty room. And because you are able to play "in" time, you know how to place the furniture to make the room look interesting and nice...
Member #8 of the "Official UG Teabaggers' Cult". PM Slayer224 to join.
Last edited by Cycon at Jul 31, 2007,
#18
ok thanks for tearing me a new one everybody (seriously though thanks for the help)
#19
^ really though, + 6 million for the metronome. i won't say "you need to play with one for the rest of your life" but a couple months to really get into a good groove to start with. also it sounds like maybe your drummer could stand some metronome practice too (in fact i would think he would be adamant about it if he was a halfway serious drummer) i don't always practice with a metronome now. but thats because i spent years playing with a real almost machine like drummer (seriously the guy wasn't neil peart fast, but he was easily as accurate as him in timing) and an actual drum machine. also playing along w/ yer favorite cd's can definately help too (since most bands, especially now, use click tracks in the studio) remember you don't have to always practice to a metronome, use drum machines or loops or whatever you can that will definately always consistently keep a steady time. and remember, it's all about having fun and writing some kick ass tunes. good luck man!
#20
Quote by G-man05
My solution was that it was ok that I was off time sometimes anyway, but he wants everything timed exactly right between the drums and guitar. I don't think people will really care because I am the only guitarist in the band anyway. Maybe we should find a rhythym guitarist for my drummer to deal with so I can focus more on the lead guitar parts?


This isn't meant to be a flame, but a constructive crit.:

This is exactly what is wrong with today's rock world !!!!! This kinda attitude is why so many people here HATE, ABJECTLY HATE the modern music scene, amoung other bad attitudes!

READ MY TYPE-FONT HERE!: There is absolutely NO reason or excuse to be off time, and that goes for EVERY instrument in EVERY situation .

As others have said, you guys need to individually buy a metronome and practice to that! Then you want to buy a metronome machine that, somehow, you all can hear, and practice/jam with that clicking away in the background!
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

DO NOT CLICK HERE!
#21
You could always cadenza
To a shredder, a second is a long time.

Member of the UG Gentlemen of Higher Thought Establishment.

Invite only, if you want to be considered, contribute well to UG, and respect others as much as possible!
#22
Quote by G-man05
Does anyone think I could get away with being slightly out of time on our songs, and not cover songs? I mean people wouldn't really be able to tell, or care would they?


Its actually quit easy to tell if your dancing. You (the dancer) will find yourself lost trying to figure out what to follow. This is assuming that you can dance rhythmicly to the style of music you are playing.

I know this has already been addressed, but i just wanted to add on.
epic7734
#23
Quote by Cycon
Don't just practice with a metronome, practice with a simple drum-beat in the backround as well, to get used to what a drum sounds like.

I'm serious about this, you would be surprised how some people who are used to the steady click of the metronome get thrown off by fill ins and anything that isn't a kick snare kick kick snare beat.


YES. find some drum loops online. backing tracks. whatever. DIVE IN AND GO FOR IT. just make it stay on time for the love of bacon.
gear?
coming soon... parker fly mojo flame
ibanezes: rg350dx frankenstein * rg7620 7-string
fenders: telecaster plus * stratocaster plus

line 6: pod xt live * ax2 212
other: laney vh100r * mesa dual rectifier * monster cables
#24
also learn simple counting techniques

for counting quarter notes (or crotchets): 1 2 3 4
eighth notes (quavers): 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and, same as above only you play a note when you say 'and' as well
sixteenth notes (semi-quavers): 1 ee and a 2 ee and a 3 ee and a 4 ee and a
triplets: 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a

it is unlikely that you'll be playing 32nd noted on any song beyond 110 bpm so don't worry about that for now

1 2 3 4 would represent each click of a metronome, 4 clicks per bar in standard 4/4

hope this isn't too confusing

don't ever try and overcome a problem with a method that involves ignorant listeners, if you want to be a good musician you want to please the most intelligent of listeners, to do that you need to play perfectly
Quote by Kutanmoogle
Now introducing Megabreth, Dave Mustaine's signature Tic-Tac!


Member of the ENGL Family

Gear:

Hamer Vector
OLP John Petrucci
ENGL Thunder 50
EHX Holy Grail
EHX Small Clone
EHX Big Muff USA
Boss DD-3
Vox V847
Korg Toneworks OD