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#1
A North Carolina couple who were terrorized by a police officer who had recently returned from Iraq are now fighting back, after sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough broke into their house, assaulted them and then arrested the Kuhns for the crime of flying an upside down U.S. flag.

Mark and Deborah Kuhn of Asheville, North Carolina made headlines last week when they were arrested for flying an upside down U.S. flag, a commonly recognized sign of distress, in their backyard, after police claimed they were violating a statute for "desecration of the flag".

As is supported by the United States Flag Code as well as a similar incident in 2001 , flying the flag upside down is not a mark of disrespect, and in fact is considered by many to be the highest form of patriotism.

However, since 9/11 there have been several cases where individuals have been harassed, intimidated and even arrested for inverting the flag, by those who confuse a love of government with a love of country.

Buncombe County Sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough had just returned from Iraq and according to the Deborah Kuhn, was sent by his staff Sergeant from the local National Guard to "deal with" the Kuhns after a local resident complained about the flag, a fact that was later admitted on TV news. A National Guard soldier in military fatigues had also previously visited the Kuhn's to harass them about the flag.

"This is a distress signal, we're not trying to desecrate the flag," Kuhn told Scarborough when he told the couple they were violating a statute. Police claimed the messages attached to the flag were the problem, but the notes merely pointed out that the upside down flag represented a distress signal and a warning that the country was in danger.

Even though Kuhn took the flag down, the officer immediately demanded that the couple show their ID's and when they refused told them to put their hands behind their back and was about to arrest them before the couple shut and locked the door.

Scarborough then proceeded to kick the door in, "And the next thing we know, the glass is flying, he unlocks the deadbolt and he comes into our house after us," Kuhn told The Alex Jones Show.

The officer then pursued Mark Kuhn through the house before intercepting him in the kitchen and putting him in a choke hold.

Deborah Kuhn called 911 to report that the officer had broken into the home and was assaulting her husband.

The officer then pulled out pepper spray to which Mark Kuhn responded, "Are you going to spray me in my house?" before Scarborough whipped out his billy club and the Kuhn's ran out of the house into the street, pleading for help from their neighbors.

"Nine police cars showed up, they whipped out the Tasers, they said 'get down we're gonna Taser you' added Kuhn.

The couple were handcuffed, arrested and bundled into a squad car, to the protests of numerous neighbors who demanded to know why the Kuhns were being incarcerated, but were told to leave by police.

Contradicting the police's account of the incident, that Buncombe County Sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough was injured when the Kuhn's slammed the door on his hand, Deborah Kuhn vehemently maintains that Scarborough smashed the glass of their door with his bare fist before breaking in, a description which is backed up by three other eyewitnesses, one of which appeared on TV later that day.

The Kuhn's are now also being charged with "assault on a government employee" - meaning that the new definition of assault is if a police officer cuts his hand by breaking into your house and putting you in a choke hold - you have assaulted him.

Scarborough claims that Deborah Kuhn slapped him while she was on the phone to the police, but the audio file of the call (listen here ) clearly contradicts this.

They each face over a year in prison.

The Kuhn's case is similar in many ways to that of Kelly Rushing , a man from Lyon County Kentucky, who was arrested and charged for handing out videotapes of Ron Paul videos to police officers. Rushing was later found not guilty of the offence of "terroristic threats" but continues to be harassed by police.

It also mirrors the case of an Alabama man, who was arrested in 2004 for displaying a sign in his yard that read "Our Courts System is a Joke," under the pretext that it was illegal to criticize the authorities.

We are encouraging our listeners and readers to call the following number and remind the officials concerned that this is not Russia or Nazi Germany, and that officer Scarborough's conduct was shameful and an insult to everything America is supposed to stand for.

Scarborough's experience in Iraq of kicking down doors and taking innocent people to camps is not something that should be brought back to America, and the charges against the Kuhns should be dropped immediately along with a formal apology issued.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/310707coupleterrorized.htm

Summary- An NC couple were arrested and assaulted for flying a flag uspside-down.
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Last edited by wholovesthesun at Aug 1, 2007,
#2
I tried to read all of that, I REALLY did...

*Hugs a bottle of IcyHot to ease the pain*
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#3
"Nine police cars showed up, they whipped out the Tasers, they said 'get down we're gonna Taser you' added Kuhn.




Pretty weird story in general, though...
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#4
wow...thats complete bull. cop broke into there house. and THERE getting arrested for it? i hate the goverment sometimes......
#5
That is disgousting. The reason i want to leave this country. I cannot believe things like this happen, and then get overlooked.
A Seven Nation army couldn't hold me back.
#6
That is absolutely disgraceful. That makes me ashamed to live in America.


This is supposed to be the country of "free speech," but I guess it's really "free speech as long as you say what the authorities want you to."
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#7
This isn't going to help the po-po's reputation at all..

But that's weird.."hello 911, a police officer broke into my house send...batman?"
#9
Quote by technicolour

But that's weird.."hello 911, a police officer broke into my house send...batman?"

No, send LEGO BATMAN! Totally better.
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#12
To be honest, if they're gonna refuse what a police officer tells them to do they can hardly expcet milk and cookies.
#13
Quote by King Baby Duck
To be honest, if they're gonna refuse what a police officer tells them to do they can hardly expcet milk and cookies.

They took the flag down, and the officer has no right to be in the house unless he has a search warrant. They people had every right to close the door on him after they took it down.
#14
Quote by King Baby Duck
To be honest, if they're gonna refuse what a police officer tells them to do they can hardly expcet milk and cookies.

Ah, it was only time before a law-bitch with no sense of freedom spoke up.
#16
I live close to there. NC is a Republican heaven. Google Gerald Hege, ex-Davidson County Sheriff. Made the cover of Time a few years back for painting jail cells pink, hosting a reality show from the jail, selling t-shirts and hats as a profitable venture under the Sheriff's Department logo, after 9-11 told his officers to stop everyone "darker than snow". Draw a line down the middle of NC, eastern half are intelligent, western (me ) are, well...
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#17
Flying the flag upside down is illegal? You don't see SWAT officers swarming Anti-Flag concerts...
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#18
Quote by King Baby Duck
When he asked for their i.ds surely it would have been easier just to show them?


Why should they have to show their ID's, though? It's not like they were a couple of teenagers sneaking into a bar (which is a sin, by the way, UG). After all, it istheir house.
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#19
Meh, I really couldn't care less. Besides, it could be considered patriotism, as a flag flown upside-down means you're in danger. And with all the terrorists and george bush, we're certainly ****ed and they could be promoting awareness of that.
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#20
read Gunpowder's sig. it explains all
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#22
this is such bullsh*t. Reminds me of things down here in hillbilly Texas. Sucks ass big time. I can't wait to move. For example, teachers here will let you wear things that support conservative thinking but other than that if its showing your beliefs, they make you take off.
Last edited by Iamafunguy at Aug 1, 2007,
#23
Quote by Gunpowder
Why should they have to show their ID's, though? It's not like they were a couple of teenagers sneaking into a bar (which is a sin, by the way, UG). After all, it istheir house.


I don't know what the procedure in America is, but I would believe that if they were going to be charged with some flag related offense the officers would be well within their rights to ask for identification to confirm their identities, and to refuse to do so could certainly be seen as obstruction.

Quote by Dirge Humani
They took the flag down, and the officer has no right to be in the house unless he has a search warrant. They people had every right to close the door on him after they took it down.


I don't believe that's true. An analogy to that would be that if you walked outside and shot someone then went back into your house the police could not enter to arrest you without a search warrant.
Last edited by Kiwi Ace at Aug 1, 2007,
#24
Holy mother ****er. That is the worst story I have ever heard about lack of freedom. I wasn't really worried before but finally I have to join the band wagon, this country is going to ****.
What's up?
#25
Every law concerning that flag is bull****. It's a god damned piece of fabric, and anyone who freaks out over it is a moron.
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#26
Quote by Kiwi Ace
I don't know what the procedure in America is, but I would believe that if they were going to be charged with some flag related offense the officers would be well within their rights to ask for identification to confirm their identities, and to refuse to do so could certainly be seen as obstruction.


Sorry for double post. Yeah I agree with that it probably could have been avoided if they had complied with the showing of ID. What did they have to hide anyway?
What's up?
#27
The Kuhn's are now also being charged with "assault on a government employee" - meaning that the new definition of assault is if a police officer cuts his hand by breaking into your house and putting you in a choke hold - you have assaulted him.

Scarborough claims that Deborah Kuhn slapped him while she was on the phone to the police, but the audio file of the call (listen here ) clearly contradicts this.

They each face over a year in prison.


Wow, what a crock of shit. Not only is that total b.s. that they're getting charged because the cop cut his hand while breaking into his house (which he should have had a warrant for if he was going to do...), but they're facing a year in prison. If they are actually sent to prison - then it shows you how fucked up our government is. That cop is a dumbass and should have his badge revoked.
#28
Quote by <Insanity>
Wow, what a crock of shit. Not only is that total b.s. that they're getting charged because the cop cut his hand while breaking into his house (which he should have had a warrant for if he was going to do...), but they're facing a year in prison. If they are actually sent to prison - then it shows you how fucked up our government is. That cop is a dumbass and should have his badge revoked.


Or is his hand cut off.
What's up?
#29
Quote by Kiwi Ace

I don't believe that's true. An analogy to that would be that if you walked outside and shot someone then went back into your house the police could not enter to arrest you without a search warrant.


thats a pretty shitty analogy, the officer said take the flag down, they did, he then asked for I.D, they said we did as you asked piss off, he broke in the house

they did not shoot some one run back in the house and say come back with a warrant

were they hasty and beligerent in not showing ID? yes.was the cop a complete douche bag? oh yes he certainly was

im not sure what the purpose of asking for the I.S was, according to the story, this wasn' the first time they were harassed over the flag, so i'm fairly certain the cop wasn't lost in that neighbourhood, he was abusing power, when they denied him his powertrip, he went batshit crazy and powertripped to a more severe degree and choked out a homeowner after busting into his house

regardless of how he perceived the slight of not having I.D shown to him, he was completely out of line by the action he then took, that kind of abuse of power is inexusable
#31
goddamn government screwing up our rights and freedoms. christ, you'd think it was nazi germany. (j/k)
You know how sometimes you get the feeling that nobody's really listening?

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#32
Quote by fishmunky
thats a pretty shitty analogy, the officer said take the flag down, they did, he then asked for I.D, they said we did as you asked piss off, he broke in the house

they did not shoot some one run back in the house and say come back with a warrant

were they hasty and beligerent in not showing ID? yes.was the cop a complete douche bag? oh yes he certainly was

im not sure what the purpose of asking for the I.S was, according to the story, this wasn' the first time they were harassed over the flag, so i'm fairly certain the cop wasn't lost in that neighbourhood, he was abusing power, when they denied him his powertrip, he went batshit crazy and powertripped to a more severe degree and choked out a homeowner after busting into his house

regardless of how he perceived the slight of not having I.D shown to him, he was completely out of line by the action he then took, that kind of abuse of power is inexusable


The analogy, while extreme, holds. If you break the law, obstruct an officer and resist arrest the officer has every right to come and arrest you no matter where you are. Whether you think it's fair or not is not, it is for the courts to decide-it is not an excuse to not do what the officer has asked. If everyone ignored the law because they didn't like it (not talking about the flag, more the refusal to show identification), society would fall to its knees. Maybe the officer was somewhat extreme in his actions, but a little cooperation goes a long way.
#33
Quote by trueguitarhero
goddamn government screwing up our rights and freedoms. christ, you'd think it was nazi germany. (j/k)

the government totally sucks, you mother****er
the government totally sucks
ben franklin was a rebel indeed
he liked to get naked while he smoked on the weed
he was a genius but,
if he was here today
the government would **** him up his righteous 'A'!
let me tell you somethin' bout the government,
theyre ****in up the environment (say what?)
theyre taken all the ****in beautiful animals (ya?)
and makin them ****in extinct! (oh no!)

Jack my swag
#34
Quote by wholovesthesun
A North Carolina couple who were terrorized by a police officer who had recently returned from Iraq are now fighting back, after sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough broke into their house, assaulted them and then arrested the Kuhns for the crime of flying an upside down U.S. flag.

Mark and Deborah Kuhn of Asheville, North Carolina made headlines last week when they were arrested for flying an upside down U.S. flag, a commonly recognized sign of distress, in their backyard, after police claimed they were violating a statute for "desecration of the flag".

As is supported by the United States Flag Code as well as a similar incident in 2001 , flying the flag upside down is not a mark of disrespect, and in fact is considered by many to be the highest form of patriotism.

However, since 9/11 there have been several cases where individuals have been harassed, intimidated and even arrested for inverting the flag, by those who confuse a love of government with a love of country.

Buncombe County Sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough had just returned from Iraq and according to the Deborah Kuhn, was sent by his staff Sergeant from the local National Guard to "deal with" the Kuhns after a local resident complained about the flag, a fact that was later admitted on TV news. A National Guard soldier in military fatigues had also previously visited the Kuhn's to harass them about the flag.

"This is a distress signal, we're not trying to desecrate the flag," Kuhn told Scarborough when he told the couple they were violating a statute. Police claimed the messages attached to the flag were the problem, but the notes merely pointed out that the upside down flag represented a distress signal and a warning that the country was in danger.

Even though Kuhn took the flag down, the officer immediately demanded that the couple show their ID's and when they refused told them to put their hands behind their back and was about to arrest them before the couple shut and locked the door.

Scarborough then proceeded to kick the door in, "And the next thing we know, the glass is flying, he unlocks the deadbolt and he comes into our house after us," Kuhn told The Alex Jones Show.

The officer then pursued Mark Kuhn through the house before intercepting him in the kitchen and putting him in a choke hold.

Deborah Kuhn called 911 to report that the officer had broken into the home and was assaulting her husband.

The officer then pulled out pepper spray to which Mark Kuhn responded, "Are you going to spray me in my house?" before Scarborough whipped out his billy club and the Kuhn's ran out of the house into the street, pleading for help from their neighbors.

"Nine police cars showed up, they whipped out the Tasers, they said 'get down we're gonna Taser you' added Kuhn.

The couple were handcuffed, arrested and bundled into a squad car, to the protests of numerous neighbors who demanded to know why the Kuhns were being incarcerated, but were told to leave by police.

Contradicting the police's account of the incident, that Buncombe County Sheriff's deputy Brian Scarborough was injured when the Kuhn's slammed the door on his hand, Deborah Kuhn vehemently maintains that Scarborough smashed the glass of their door with his bare fist before breaking in, a description which is backed up by three other eyewitnesses, one of which appeared on TV later that day.

The Kuhn's are now also being charged with "assault on a government employee" - meaning that the new definition of assault is if a police officer cuts his hand by breaking into your house and putting you in a choke hold - you have assaulted him.

Scarborough claims that Deborah Kuhn slapped him while she was on the phone to the police, but the audio file of the call (listen here ) clearly contradicts this.

They each face over a year in prison.

The Kuhn's case is similar in many ways to that of Kelly Rushing , a man from Lyon County Kentucky, who was arrested and charged for handing out videotapes of Ron Paul videos to police officers. Rushing was later found not guilty of the offence of "terroristic threats" but continues to be harassed by police.

It also mirrors the case of an Alabama man, who was arrested in 2004 for displaying a sign in his yard that read "Our Courts System is a Joke," under the pretext that it was illegal to criticize the authorities.

We are encouraging our listeners and readers to call the following number and remind the officials concerned that this is not Russia or Nazi Germany, and that officer Scarborough's conduct was shameful and an insult to everything America is supposed to stand for.

Scarborough's experience in Iraq of kicking down doors and taking innocent people to camps is not something that should be brought back to America, and the charges against the Kuhns should be dropped immediately along with a formal apology issued.


http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/310707coupleterrorized.htm

Summary- An NC couple were arrested and assaulted for flying a flag uspside-down.


This is obviously a biased story that is intended to promote a specific agenda.

No where in here does it state the reason these people claim was justification for displaying a symbol of national emergency. It is likely there was nothing close to a national emergency. That means they were, in effect, shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. Which is also an action not protected by the right to free speech.

At the point where the couple were instructed to show their ID and refused, they were impeding an investigation of a crime. They were then placed under arrest. You don't have to be in hand-cuffs to be placed under arrest. The moment the police officer tells you, you are is the moment you are arrested. Any legitimate journalist knows this. All actions taken by the couple after that were when they were resisting arrest.

"meaning that the new definition of assault is if a police officer cuts his hand by breaking into your house and putting you in a choke hold - you have assaulted him." is another indication this is a biased report. The reporter is drawing conculsions and assigning meaning. A real journalist would not do this.

There were at least 2 laws broken here.

The couple DID impede and investigation.

The couple DID resist arrest.

The couple MIGHT HAVE been responsible for falsely declaring a national emergency.
This one can't be determined with the information I read.

Stupid people who think they are above the law will often compound their problems by "standing up for their rights". Bending the truth and distorting the facts will sometimes make them look like martyrs, but a closer look usually reveals the truth.

If this couple had simply shown their ID and allowed the investigation to take place, it is unlikely they would have ever seen a day in jail. Instead, they continued to break laws. I have no pity for them. They dug a hole for themselves and fell in.


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#35
Quote by Kylster
I tried to read all of that, I REALLY did...

*Hugs a bottle of IcyHot to ease the pain*

This is what we call an embodiment of term "pathetic"

"oh lol i r 2 lazy 2 read story, so instead i make useless post and use my s00pr original meme. I R TEH KEWLIST!!!!"


And that's a pretty messed up story.
#36
Quote by Kiwi Ace
The analogy, while extreme, holds. If you break the law, obstruct an officer and resist arrest the officer has every right to come and arrest you no matter where you are. Whether you think it's fair or not is not, it is for the courts to decide-it is not an excuse to not do what the officer has asked. If everyone ignored the law because they didn't like it (not talking about the flag, more the refusal to show identification), society would fall to its knees. Maybe the officer was somewhat extreme in his actions, but a little cooperation goes a long way.


i think the anaolgy goes too far, they didn'y break a law by not showing i.d

i think you're right by saying they should have shown i.d and cooperated, i mean they took down the flag, why not flash a drivers lisence

of couse if this cop was as big an asshat as this story depicts, he may have torn up thier lisences which is just massively unprofessional, but thats just speculative

the point is its not illegal to fly the flag upside down to begin with, there was no law broken, they took the flag down to comply with this douche bag putting on more pressure

thus there was no legal obligation for them to show the officer any identification, they weren't pulled over while driving, they weren't breaking any laws

the officer was in the wrong, 100%

it would have been no story had they shown i.d, but the cop had no reason to ask, so why should they?
#37
Absolutle bull****. What law did they break? Showing pride for your country when it is in distress is a criminal offense? America is becomming the biggest ****-hole in the world, i can not wait to leave it.
#38
Quote by fishmunky
i think the anaolgy goes too far, they didn'y break a law by not showing i.d

i think you're right by saying they should have shown i.d and cooperated, i mean they took down the flag, why not flash a drivers lisence

of couse if this cop was as big an asshat as this story depicts, he may have torn up thier lisences which is just massively unprofessional, but thats just speculative

the point is its not illegal to fly the flag upside down to begin with, there was no law broken, they took the flag down to comply with this douche bag putting on more pressure

thus there was no legal obligation for them to show the officer any identification, they weren't pulled over while driving, they weren't breaking any laws

the officer was in the wrong, 100%

it would have been no story had they shown i.d, but the cop had no reason to ask, so why should they?


They did break the law, at the very least obstruction and resisting arrest. Like I said, whether they broke the law in the manner in which they flew the flag is probably a matter for the courts to decide.

Edit: ^ To SomeoneYouKnew - Sense at last, thank you!
Last edited by Kiwi Ace at Aug 1, 2007,
#39
they never broke a law.

I quote from the United States Flag Code. from USFlag dot org

* (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.


If they couple were truely in dire distress where their life or property are in danger. Then they are well within their the Laws.

Now proving that they did not break the law. Your analogy would be chagned to if a man went out told someone he needed help and went back inside and a Police broke into their home. That is clearly misconduct. And the police should be discharged from the Police Force. As for the charges against the couple, they have done nothing wrong. So for a Government official to break into a home and assault a man and then charge him for assault to the police for a self inflicted wound. That is out of order.


And they were never told they were being arrested. So they could not have been resisting arrest. And showing ID for no reason to identify someone isn't illegal as far as I'm concerned but refusing to show ID would also not be illegal. Because the Police has no legitimate reason to need identification of the two since they have done nothign wrong.
Last edited by kaplac at Aug 1, 2007,
#40
Quote by moonhawk
wow...thats complete bull. cop broke into there house. and THERE getting arrested for it? i hate the goverment sometimes......

Yeah, add to the fact that they've done a **** job educating you.

This does not surprise me at all. I laugh every time I hear Americans boasting about how great and free their country is.
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