#1
I saw something about this before, can't see it now... but...

Can a seventh chord be played anywhere a major chord is played in a key? For example... in the key of G I can play G7, C7 etc.

If not else, where can they be used... and if you have time - what other chords can go into a major key, and where?

Thanks.
#2
What you're thinking of is a dominant seventh chord. Much like triads, there are major and minor chords in every key.

In the key of C...

C - C E G B (Major 7th)
D - D F A C (Minor 7th)
E - E G B D (Minor 7th)
F - F A C E (Major 7th)
G - G B D F (Dominant 7th)
A - A C E G (Minor 7th)
B - B D F A (Half-diminished/m7b5 7th)

So in the key of C, you would have a G7. Note that there are also secondary dominants -- Dominants borrowed from other notes within that key. For example, if you were to take the dominant of A minor -- the relative minor of the key of C -- you would get E7 (A B C D E F G), which would be a secondary dominant of the key of C major, specifically, V7-of-vii. You can use any other key/mode in the key of C major (except for from the seventh, not sure why). So you could have the V7-of-ii (A7), the V7-of-iii (B7), the V7-of-IV (C7), and the V7-of-V (D7).
#3
Ah... that explains why this chord progression was sounding completely alright. I was in G and was playing D7... which is right... I think... by looking at what you've put.

Not sure I got it all... but I can't just use the seventh chords in place of major chords... they have to be major seventh chords (and minor in place of the minor, of course)... right. That's cool, thanks for the help.
#4
I understand that that wasn't the greatest explanation of it but as a user and abuser of seventh chords I can help you out if you don't understand it all that well (my AIM is the same as my user name and I have MSN as well).

EDIT: And yes, D7 is the primary (naturally occuring) dominant chord in G major.
#5
I put the guitar down for tonight (or morning...)... it's like 4.10am here in England... but I'll PM you if I don't get it.
#8
Quote by Dozza

Not sure I got it all... but I can't just use the seventh chords in place of major chords... they have to be major seventh chords (and minor in place of the minor, of course)... right. That's cool, thanks for the help.


You can use Dominant 7th chords in place of major chords, thats the way I IV V chords are used in the blues

For instance, typical 12 bar blues in E would use these 3 chords E7 A7 B7

here's a link covering the possible sus chords in C major
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13251
#10
Quote by Stash Jam
You can use Dominant 7th chords in place of major chords, thats the way I IV V chords are used in the blues


No, you can't just make a blanket statement like that. Dom7 don't always work in
place of a major triad.

Dom7s can function many different ways in a chord progression as can other types
of 7 chords.
#11
Quote by Dozza

If not else, where can they be used... and if you have time - what other chords can go into a major key, and where?


You need to know what it means to "harmonize" the scale.
Me2Nik showed how the major scale harmonizes in 7th chords.
ALL those chords are related to each other. So those are the main 7 chords
you should experiment with in a given key.
#12
Quote by edg
No, you can't just make a blanket statement like that. Dom7 don't always work in
place of a major triad.


I never said that. I gave an example of how they can be used in a particular context, the blues, where it's standard to have I7 IV7 V7 progressions.

Quote by Dozza
Ergh... so what are the major seventh chords used for then?


Major 7 are normally used as I or IV chords. my example was to show that you can indeed use 7 chords in place of Maj7, but realize thats only widely used in one style of music
Last edited by Stash Jam at Aug 8, 2007,
#13
So... someone confirm this... even though to me now it seems obvious.

In the Key of G I can use:

Gmaj7
Amin7
Bmin7
Cmaj7
D7
Emin7
F - well, I'll leave that out for a moment.

In place of the usual chords?
#14
Quote by Dozza
So... someone confirm this... even though to me now it seems obvious.

In the Key of G I can use:

Gmaj7
Amin7
Bmin7
Cmaj7
D7
Emin7
F - well, I'll leave that out for a moment.

In place of the usual chords?


Yep, also the last chord would be F#m7b5
#15
Quote by Dozza
So... someone confirm this... even though to me now it seems obvious.

In the Key of G I can use:

Gmaj7
Amin7
Bmin7
Cmaj7
D7
Emin7
F - well, I'll leave that out for a moment.

In place of the usual chords?


Well yeh diatonically you can use what you said, but to get it to sound good depends on the order, a common modern jazz one is Imaj7 - VIm7 - IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7, I only learnt this the other day, another good trick is secondary (sp?) dominants.

Traditionally a secondary dominant is only the V7 of the V7 of the original key but in practice any chord except the Imaj7 can be preceded by a secondary dominant...

So for our original progression if we proceeded the IIm7 by a secondary dominant you chromatically alter the m7 up to a Maj7 giving us Imaj7 - VI7 - IIm7 etc.) Secondary domaints can also have secondary domaints as well! (Not sure if this is exactly right, im a bit drunk...

Also remember your original Imaj7 can be easily replaced by IIIm7 since a diatonic root movement of a third is considered a weak progression...

This is a short post but can take years to understand and use properly in every key, try everything you can think of out for it! There are alot more you can do with basic progresions but try these out...

EDIT: Anyone feel free to correct me if im wrong!
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#16
Quote by Peanut1614
Well yeh diatonically you can use what you said, but to get it to sound good depends on the order, a common modern jazz one is Imaj7 - VIm7 - IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7, I only learnt this the other day, another good trick is secondary (sp?) dominants.

Traditionally a secondary dominant is only the V7 of the V7 of the original key but in practice any chord except the Imaj7 can be preceded by a secondary dominant...



V/V is common, but secondary dominants can lead to any chord besides the vii chord
(and the I chord since it already has a primary dominant)...
there's no secondary dominant for the vii is too unstable to sound resolved due to the b5

Imaj7 - VIm7 - IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7

That's a good progression that can be spiced up with some secondary dominants. I have a Joe Pass lesson where he goes over tons of ways to play that type of progression, one of which is..

He uses secondary dominants so like in C major instead of

CΔ Am7 Dm7 G7 CΔ

he'll use CΔ A7 D7 G7 CΔ

then you can also alter notes in all the dominant chords for a vast array of different sounds
Last edited by Stash Jam at Aug 8, 2007,
#17
Quote by Stash Jam
I never said that. I gave an example of how they can be used in a particular context, the blues, where it's standard to have I7 IV7 V7 progressions.


Oh, well my misunderstanding. But if you re-read your very first sentence, I don't
know how else you could take it and were just using I-IV-V as an example.