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#1
I'm sick of people saying speed is equal to skill, but I'm ALSO sick of people saying that it doesn't, so let's settle on a compromise.

Speed is equal to skill to an extent; To play that many notes accurately and cleanly does take a good amount of skill, this is true. HOWEVER, no matter how many beats per minute you can hit, it doesn't make it good music. To quote Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction, "It ain't the same league, it ain't the same ballpark, hell, it ain't even the same f*ckin' sport."

To summarize, playing very fast with precision takes SKILL, but not MUSICAL skill.
Someone playing at 700bpm playing crap is still a worse musician then someone playing well thought out music at 20bpm.


Thoughts?
#5
Speed is one aspect of refined practice. But there's a lot more aspects. So yes, I agree.
#6
Speed is one aspect of skill on a guitar. It adds dexterity to playing, so you have more to work with (same as hammer ons and pull offs, harmonics, and sweep picking are all parts of the physical playing, which allow a player to add more variety to their guitar playing). However, you must have a control of the notes, too; scales and which notes sound good where. You could be the fastest player in the world, but without command of musical knowledge, you'll be boring. Similarly, if ALL you knew was theory, the music wouldn't have much variety to it.

Guitar requires both physical knowledge of the guitar and how to work it, as well as mental knowledge of music as a whole.
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#7
Guys like BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Joe Bonamassa, they can say more with 1 note than most bands today ever will through their entire career's.

Speed is nothing.

BB king is probably the slowest guitarist ever and look at him.
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#8
Quote by Gunpowder
Similarly, if ALL you knew was theory, the music wouldn't have much variety to it.

variety has nothing to do with theory...
#9
Quote by poopt
variety has nothing to do with theory...


Variety in terms of physical movements to change up the sound of the music. Slides, hammer ons, pull offs, bends, harmonics, tremolo picking, raking, tapping, palm muting, etc, are all techniques that you need to LEARN in order to vary the music, techniques that add a different sound that you can't get through theory alone, if you get what I'm saying.
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#10
Quote by Gunpowder
Variety in terms of physical movements to change up the sound of the music. Slides, hammer ons, pull offs, bends, harmonics, tremolo picking, raking, tapping, palm muting, etc, are all techniques that you need to LEARN in order to vary the music, techniques that add a different sound that you can't get through theory alone, if you get what I'm saying.

Oh okay. I agree with that. I misunderstood you.
#12
Speed is skill. Regardless of what you say, the ability to play notes at a high speed while maintaining accuracy IS SKILL. Now, does that mean it is better music? Obviously opinions will vary on this. Saying speed isn't related to skill is like saying it doesn't take skill to double bass fast on drums. It isn't right for all music but it does take a good amount of skill to do.
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#13
Quote by Stop Messin'
Guys like BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Joe Bonamassa, they can say more with 1 note than most bands today ever will through their entire career's.

Speed is nothing.

BB king is probably the slowest guitarist ever and look at him.


Oh, so you're one of them...
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#14
Quote by PerpetualBurn
Oh, so you're one of them...

I just love when people claim one artist plays with 'soul' and another doesn't...

People just don't seem to realize different music and different songs connect to people differently. I know it is hard to grasp that because 'one note' of someone moves you and leaves me flat, doesn't mean a thing.
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#15
Quote by garden of grey
+1


Being the complete opposite of an "OMG SPEED R EVERYDING" makes you just as bad.

It's a dynamic.

Saying "OH HES TEH SLOWEST HE PWNS" is just as bad.

Yep.

In fact, taking speed (any speed) into such high regard is just douchebaggery.
#16
I think the thing is, Speed is technical skill, but having technical skill is not hard if you are quite talented, yet knowing your scales and playing at high speeds along them does not take an intellectual, in fact complete boneheads can do it with a bit of perseverance...

Actually knowing how to play what you hear in your head when you write original material is what takes intelligence, and a lot more for it to be any good.
#17
i agree, there is a difference between skill and talent, speed is skill, but making music is a talent.
skill can only take you so far.
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#18
This thread has gone so much better than most threads about this. Usually a couple metal elitests and blues/classic rock elistist just argue.

In my opinion its important to be able to play with speed but if thats all you can do then your not that great a musician.
#19
Speed is overated but its a good skill to have.
I don't always post in the threads but when I do its random and pointless because I'm ignorant enough to think you care.
#20
I agree but only cuz I struggle with speed
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#21
Quote by Grundy0
This thread has gone so much better than most threads about this. Usually a couple metal elitests and blues/classic rock elistist just argue.

In my opinion its important to be able to play with speed but if thats all you can do then your not that great a musician.


true you need to beable to compose not just play fast, if thats all it took to be a good guitar player there would be an innumerable amout of 'guitar heros'

sadly, there are still too many who fall under that catergory for the reason of speed alone
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#22
Quote by mrjp
i agree, there is a difference between skill and talent, speed is skill, but making music is a talent.
skill can only take you so far.

Wise words my friend.
#24
Quote by mrjp
i agree, there is a difference between skill and talent, speed is skill, but making music is a talent.
skill can only take you so far.

If you mean composing, then I disagree. I consider just being a great player a talent. If the musician's good at composing, then that's another talent.
#25
I belive composition comes with being a musicain
i dont think you can call someone a musicain if they cant write music, otherwise they are only a guitar-player.
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#26
Quote by mrjp
I belive composition comes with being a musicain
i dont think you can call someone a musicain if they cant write music.

Sorry but I think that's pure bullshit.

Writing AND playing one's own works might be generally regarded as valued in the rock culture, but in many other music cultures this is not true.

Take jazz, pop, and classical for example. They all have dedicated composers who purely write the music for skilled performers to play. The audience generally does not require the composer to perform his/her own works and vice versa.

And when it comes down to it, music requires both types of persons. The composer is important because he/she creates the music. But what good is it if there is no one to carry that music out physically? I think they are both of equal importance and it's insulting to me, as partly a classical violinist and jazz guitarist, for anyone to dismiss the other half as something less than a musician.
Last edited by poopt at Aug 10, 2007,
#27
you know what, after some thought, i agree with that.
there are plenty of band s and composers that do that.
thanks for widening my perspective
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#28
Speed IS a skill anyway you put it. If someone types faster than others, it's a skill. If someone runs faster than others, it is a skill. If someone plays faster (while being accurate) than others on guitar or any other instrument, it is a skill. Simply because playing fast is hard to do. The only people who say that playing fast isnt a skill are people who simply cant play fast for the most part
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#29
Quote by Stop Messin'
Guys like BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Joe Bonamassa, they can say more with 1 note than most bands today ever will through their entire career's.

Speed is nothing.

BB king is probably the slowest guitarist ever and look at him.


You know of Joe Bonamassa?

Please.

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#30
tl;dr Speed is a skill, not skill itself.

EDIT: Although whoever said it was a skill and not a talent put it brilliantly.
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Last edited by whalepudding at Mar 28, 2009,
#31
Quote by poopt
Sorry but I think that's pure bullshit.

Writing AND playing one's own works might be generally regarded as valued in the rock culture, but in many other music cultures this is not true.

Take jazz, pop, and classical for example. They all have dedicated composers who purely write the music for skilled performers to play. The audience generally does not require the composer to perform his/her own works and vice versa.

And when it comes down to it, music requires both types of persons. The composer is important because he/she creates the music. But what good is it if there is no one to carry that music out physically? I think they are both of equal importance and it's insulting to me, as partly a classical violinist and jazz guitarist, for anyone to dismiss the other half as something less than a musician.


I agree with this 100%

the rock genre is so much made to be about the singer/songwriter it has become wrong to do covers, I find putting my own intrepretation, or just playing a straight cover to be just as rewaring as performing an original composition, granted though, I play mostly blues and folk, so the genres I play frown upon it less. I love playing other's works, because lets face it, just because you can play the music well, it doesn't instantly qualify you as a composer.
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#32
Wow, necropost!

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#33
lol, I just noticed how incredibly old this is...


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#34
Quote by dxpaintball8000
Speed IS a skill anyway you put it. If someone types faster than others, it's a skill. If someone runs faster than others, it is a skill. If someone plays faster (while being accurate) than others on guitar or any other instrument, it is a skill. Simply because playing fast is hard to do. The only people who say that playing fast isnt a skill are people who simply cant play fast for the most part


no

Quote by Stop Messin'

Guys like BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Joe Bonamassa, they can say more with 1 note than most bands today ever will through their entire career's.

Speed is nothing.

BB king is probably the slowest guitarist ever and look at him.


no


speed x musical quality to the speed= skill
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#35
Quote by JulianBintner

To summarize, playing very fast with precision takes SKILL, but not MUSICAL skill.
Someone playing at 700bpm playing crap is still a worse musician then someone playing well thought out music at 20bpm.

I know this is an old thread, but I'll reply anyway.


People can play fast and it can still be "thought" about. For example, speed can be used to increase tension, suspense, and various other things.


In my opinion, though, speed solely does not make a fantastic guitarist. It helps, but it is not the main factor.
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#36
Quote by Stop Messin'
Guys like BB King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Joe Bonamassa, they can say more with 1 note than most bands today ever will through their entire career's.

Speed is nothing.

BB king is probably the slowest guitarist ever and look at him.


Yes, problem is that I fall asleep between the notes.

So I kinda miss what thy are saying.
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#37
I'd class David Gilmour as more musical than Michael Angelo Batio, to contribute to the thread.

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#38
Quote by Zero-Hartman
I'd class David Gilmour as more musical than Michael Angelo Batio, to contribute to the thread.


Well duh!
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#39
I'm sick of this thread being made every other week by someone who's been told they can't play fast. If someone's already shared my sentiments then feel free to suckle on my balls.
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#40
Quote by Guitar0player
Well duh!

>.>

What I'm trying to say is, speed and musicality are two different things, either you sacrifice one for the other in a lot of cases.

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