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#1
Im pretty much certain im going to buy the 50 watt plexi. I e-mailed Nik ealier about adding a master volume and how much does it lack tone with it. I know somebody submitted a thread a couple of days ago but im planning on ordering this amp in the next few days so thats why im asking now not in the other thread.

Nik had said to me it doesn't lack that much in tone but you still need a bit of volume eg volume 10, master 2 or 3. How much overdrive will this give me, say enough for the clash mibye or van halen or acdc?

How close is this to the original plexi?

Do they lack in pre amp or power amp distortion when the master is installed

What is the best input to use for these amps?

If you could answer any of these questions that would be great

thanks very much
#2
Well to start with.

Don't get the 50 watt Plexi. In order to get some decent distortion you need A LOT of volume. I had a Plexi with master and it doesn't lose tone from it, but the thing is that the preamp distortion is qutie "lackin", being very thin and at the most you get enough gain for maybe AC/DC. In order to get the sounds you want you need to crank it, to volumes which are unbearable (I've owned a 50 watt Plexi, with master, so I know).

I would recommend either a Ceriatone 18 watter, which WILL be loud enough or the best would be an Orange Rocker 30, which was what I got when I had to sell my Plexi since it was too loud. It sounds like a Plexi, but not as loud. It will work great for the stuff you play and nail those tones perfectly.
Quote by stratman_13
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#3
The 50 watt plexi will be well too loud, if you get the 18watt one, you can get more power amp OD at reasonable volumes.

But if you have a master volume, and have volume high and master low, the sound won't be as good as the juicy power amp OD you get from just cranking the amp.
"Breathe, breathe in the air
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#4
Quote by Gabel
In order to get the sounds you want you need to crank it, to volumes which are unbearable (I've owned a 50 watt Plexi, with master, so I know).


I think you are over-exaggerating a little bit here. IMO, 50 watt amps aren't THAT loud; they don't drown out the whole band like you described it. Then again, I'm basing this off my Bassman, which is old and tired, and probably not as powerful as it once was.
#5
Quote by mr_hankey
I think you are over-exaggerating a little bit here. IMO, 50 watt amps aren't THAT loud; they don't drown out the whole band like you described it. Then again, I'm basing this off my Bassman, which is old and tired, and probably not as powerful as it once was.
My Friend can drown out his entire band with a Peavey Classic 50 on maximum volume...
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#6
It drowns out my band at 3 (i have a plexi too)
but it jsut sounds so damn good
if you are using it for the od then get an 18 watter
#7
Quote by MrCarrot
My Friend can drown out his entire band with a Peavey Classic 50 on maximum volume...


Damn. I guess my amp needs more servicing.
#8
Yeah Hank it does.

Plus Plexis are "super" strong amps. They were created for being used on large gigs before you were micing. No I'm not exagurating the loudness, I drowned my whole band with it on 5. I have read that a Plexi actually has an output closer to 70 watts than 50 watts too.
Quote by stratman_13
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18watter video demo

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#9
Quote by mr_hankey
Damn. I guess my amp needs more servicing.
Has it still got the original electrolytics and resistors?
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#10
Quote by MrCarrot
Has it still got the original electrolytics and resistors?


I've replaced 4 out of 6 filter caps (it got a bit more headroom and volume when I replaced those), and I've ordered replacements for the rest of the electrolytics too. The other two filter caps are on their way (I hope); and all the resistors are original, expect for maybe three or four.

I may be forced to do what I was hoping to avoid: pull out a lot of the resistors and measure them.
#11
Quote by Gabel
Yeah Hank it does.

Plus Plexis are "super" strong amps. They were created for being used on large gigs before you were micing. No I'm not exagurating the loudness, I drowned my whole band with it on 5. I have read that a Plexi actually has an output closer to 70 watts than 50 watts too.


50 watts would be their clean output, wouldn't it?

And, 'Hank'....that's a new one.
#12
Quote by mr_hankey
I've replaced 4 out of 6 filter caps (it got a bit more headroom and volume when I replaced those), and I've ordered replacements for the rest of the electrolytics too. The other two filter caps are on their way (I hope); and all the resistors are original, expect for maybe three or four.

I may be forced to do what I was hoping to avoid: pull out a lot of the resistors and measure them.
You ordering from Banzai?

I take it the resistors are Carbon Comp then - the black tubular ones? You needn't pull 'em out, just use a multimeter to measure them or check their color codes. Carbon comp are known to deteriorate like Electro caps though so it'll probably need changing.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#13
^No, I ordered from www.verelec.com, it's closer to home, less shipping costs.

And you can't measure them while they are in circuit, because it'll measure them in parallel with the whole circuit. It might you give you the real value sometimes, but you never know for sure.

Some guy I know who has a '67 Deluxe Reverb (bastard!) had some resistors drift in value, so his output tubes ran twice as hot as they were supposed to. He managed to replace them on time though.

Electrolytic caps get noisy, and can eventually burst. Carbon comp resistors will drift, usually up.
#14
^ Haha I knew there was something up with measuring them in circuit. Strange thing is though, all the measurements I took of resistors on my stripboard when soldered in were accurate.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#15
I might be getting one of those too! Let me know how it sounds if you decide to go for it!

The master Nik installs on his plexis are called post phase inverter master volume (PPIMV) so you still get the phase inverter distortion (where most of the so called power amp distortion comes from) not just the preamp distortion. This is an additional dial separate from the two volume controls you normally get on Plexis. Gabel, I'm inclined to think that the master you had on your 50W plexi wasn't of this type, because Nik told me that with his master volume you can achieve Van Halen level of gain with ease.
Gear:
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Fender MIJ 62RI Tele
PRS Singlecut SE
Epiphone Sheraton II
Ibanez AEG10NT
Orange Rocker 30
Blackstar HT5C
Last edited by KazVH100R at Aug 20, 2007,
#16
Yeah mine was a pre phase inverter.

Still an 18 watter is probably a better choice, becuase a Plexi doesn't come truly alive until you crank it up a bit.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

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Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#17
Quote by KazVH100R
I might be getting one of those too! Let me know how it sounds if you decide to go for it!

The master Nik installs on his plexis are called post phase inverter master volume (PPIMV) so you still get the phase inverter distortion (where most of the so called power amp distortion comes from) not just the preamp distortion. This is an additional dial separate from the two volume controls you normally get on Plexis. Gabel, I'm inclined to think that the master you had on your 50W plexi wasn't of this type, because Nik told me that with his master volume you can achieve Van Halen level of gain with ease.


You're still just overdriving a 12ax7, which will never sound as good as an overdriven EL34 or whatever power tube you're using.
#18
yeah i heard that the post phase inverter master volume's were good at keeping a lo of the tone, and i heard it's ok as long as you have it on something like volume: 10 master: 2-3
#19
Yes, but an 18 watter will sound better.

For "true" Plexi sound you need poweramp distortion, which will be VERY hard to get with the 1987, while the 18 watter will achieve it A LOT faster.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#20
Quote by KazVH100R
I might be getting one of those too! Let me know how it sounds if you decide to go for it!

The master Nik installs on his plexis are called post phase inverter master volume (PPIMV) so you still get the phase inverter distortion (where most of the so called power amp distortion comes from) not just the preamp distortion. This is an additional dial separate from the two volume controls you normally get on Plexis. Gabel, I'm inclined to think that the master you had on your 50W plexi wasn't of this type, because Nik told me that with his master volume you can achieve Van Halen level of gain with ease.


Yeah, I'm very interested in getting a Ceriatone, too. I'd love to hear from someone who owns the 18W version, because I'm drawn to the 1987 also. My 50W Mojave Scorpion is brutally loud (non-master), but I use a Palmer PDI 03 speaker sim/load box to tame it down without losing tone. I wonder if it might sound a wee bit better using a lower wattage similar-type amp just straight wide open, but my Scorpion is still incredibly loud with the power damping feature dialing the power down to only 3W. Probably need the load box anyway. But if the 18 watter can nail a VH sound, I'd love to try one.
Also, I wonder what the differences are between the Ceriatones & those Metropoulos plexi replicas....
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#21
^Kerry (Call1800KZMYAZZ) has one. He has gotten some great Van Halen tones out of his Ceriatone 18 watt TMB.

PM him, I think he has a video of it for EVH tones.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#22
Quote by mr_hankey
You're still just overdriving a 12ax7, which will never sound as good as an overdriven EL34 or whatever power tube you're using.


Never said it will did I? Just pointing out that the master Nik installs on his amps are different to what most amps have, which is a pre-PIMV. Didn't want him to think he was just getting ACDC level gain.
Gear:
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PRS Singlecut SE
Epiphone Sheraton II
Ibanez AEG10NT
Orange Rocker 30
Blackstar HT5C
#23
Quote by Gabel
^Kerry (Call1800KZMYAZZ) has one. He has gotten some great Van Halen tones out of his Ceriatone 18 watt TMB.

PM him, I think he has a video of it for EVH tones.

Thanks, Gabe!
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Riffhog for President


Quote by Cathbard
There's no point apologising for your feet smelling when there's a 300lb gorilla in the room taking a crap on the couch.


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#24
Just got a question, on the ceriatone website the prices are very vague when it comes to showing what an already buit amp costs. Its just not really right there. So what would an 18 watt with a master volume cost pre-built?
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#26
Quote by riffhog
Thanks, Gabe!




PM him and he should answer. He's a great guy.


TS: Well the 18 watt TMB has a master volume stock I think.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#27
Quote by KazVH100R
Never said it will did I? Just pointing out that the master Nik installs on his amps are different to what most amps have, which is a pre-PIMV. Didn't want him to think he was just getting ACDC level gain.


so you still get the phase inverter distortion (where most of the so called power amp distortion comes from) not just the preamp distortion


No, you did.
#28
im thinking about getting the ceriatone 18 watt tmb combo kit
so its an 18 watt 112 combo
will this be loud enough for gigs?
would it give me good van halen level gain?
Quote by beeboshain
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#29
Quote by mr_hankey
No, you did.


no I didn't. Read again.

Gabel said he only got ACDC level of gain from his MV plexi.
I said the master volume Nik installs is called PPIMV which allows more gain at low volumes.
You quote me saying 12ax7 OD doesn't sound as nice as EL34 OD.

Where did I say that PPIMV sounds better than letting the amp open up? I did say the PI distortion is most of power amp distortion but didn't say that was all.
Gear:
Gibson SG '61 RI
Fender MIJ 62RI Tele
PRS Singlecut SE
Epiphone Sheraton II
Ibanez AEG10NT
Orange Rocker 30
Blackstar HT5C
Last edited by KazVH100R at Aug 21, 2007,
#30
Quote by libskate44
im thinking about getting the ceriatone 18 watt tmb combo kit
so its an 18 watt 112 combo
will this be loud enough for gigs?
would it give me good van halen level gain?


Well the combo kit is JUST the amp, you have to get a separete cab box (though I think Ceriatone sells them).

It should be enough for most gigs, the gigs when it won't are so big so it will be miced anyway.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#31
Quote by Gabel
Well the combo kit is JUST the amp, you have to get a separete cab box (though I think Ceriatone sells them).

It should be enough for most gigs, the gigs when it won't are so big so it will be miced anyway.


how difficult would it be to build the combo box and whats a good cheap inexpensive speaker to use?
Quote by beeboshain
marshall mg100dfx some people slay but i love it, think its a good amp for the money and you cant go wrong with marshall...its english!
#32
Quote by KazVH100R
no I didn't. Read again.

Gabel said he only got ACDC level of gain from his MV plexi.
I said the master volume Nik installs is called PPIMV which allows more gain at low volumes.
You quote me saying 12ax7 OD doesn't sound as nice as EL34 OD.

Where did I say that PPIMV sounds better than letting the amp open up? I did say the PI distortion is most of power amp distortion but didn't say that was all.


You said that you'll get power amp distortion from the phase inverter. Technically, yes, it's part of the power amp; but since it's the same type of tube as the preamp, the sound will be pretty similar.

Technically you're right, but it's at the very least misleading saying that you'll get power amp OD from the phase inverter.
#33
Quote by libskate44
how difficult would it be to build the combo box and whats a good cheap inexpensive speaker to use?

let nik build you one
and get quality speakers
with an amp that nice don't mess it up by getting cheap speakers
#34
You said that you'll get power amp distortion from the phase inverter. Technically, yes, it's part of the power amp; but since it's the same type of tube as the preamp, the sound will be pretty similar.


you should read this it's a really informative site and this article talks about the importance of Phase inverter:

www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/files/Phaseinverter.pdf

I said "most of" and powerAMP not powerTUBE distortion. Perhaps I should have said a large part of instead of most of.
Gear:
Gibson SG '61 RI
Fender MIJ 62RI Tele
PRS Singlecut SE
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Ibanez AEG10NT
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Blackstar HT5C
Last edited by KazVH100R at Aug 21, 2007,
#35
Quote by guitaristd
let nik build you one
and get quality speakers
with an amp that nice don't mess it up by getting cheap speakers


I thought Nik built cabs.

Yeah speakers are VERY important. They affect the tone SO MUCH!
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#36
Quote by KazVH100R
you should read this it's a really informative site and this article talks about the importance of Phase inverter:

www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/files/Phaseinverter.pdf

I said "most of" and powerAMP not powerTUBE distortion. Perhaps I should have said a large part of instead of most of.


Thanks for the link.

I do think the writer of that article makes the PI tube seem more important than it is. I have personally noticed a much bigger change in tone when changing power tubes than when changing the PI tube.

Master volume controls are something I need to read more about; as I've been (and still am) much more interested in single volume knob amps.
#37
Hey no probs. I stumbled across that site a while ago and it's a wealth of info there. Yeah I do agree that he might be under-representing the importance of power tubes because I did notice a big difference between how my Laney sounded with EL34s and 6L6s. What I was trying to get across was how much of the power amp od depends on the PI, which is a separate issue from the tone of the amp.
Gear:
Gibson SG '61 RI
Fender MIJ 62RI Tele
PRS Singlecut SE
Epiphone Sheraton II
Ibanez AEG10NT
Orange Rocker 30
Blackstar HT5C
#39
whats wrong with building my own?
would save a tone of money
right?
Quote by beeboshain
marshall mg100dfx some people slay but i love it, think its a good amp for the money and you cant go wrong with marshall...its english!
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