#1
Well, i've been playing for nearly 3 years. I love my theory and everything, and can solo well with the Pentatonic. I hate it though as i dont want my solos to sound bluesy, atleast in metal.

I know all my major modes, but am having alot of difficulty trying to solo using them.

I'm mainly trying to get something out of the dorian, but it just doesnt seem to happen.

Any tips on how to get licks or solo sounding stuff out of the modes or whatever. I really hate sounding bluesy in all my solos.... but with the modes all i get is going up and down them with some slides and trilling and crappy runs.... Theres gotta be a way to get licks or something...?

And yes I did a search but couldnt find anything along the lines I am asking.

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#2
Whoah another person from SA!! =O. Well i say dont base all your solo around scales, it limits to what you can do =D
#3
Quote by Birdy266
Whoah another person from SA!! =O. Well i say dont base all your solo around scales, it limits to what you can do =D


Um, yeah... take the strings off your guitar, those are pretty limiting too.

I'd say to make the move from playing pentatonic over everything to something
that requires you know more about what you're doing, like using the major scale
& its modes, your next step should be learning arpeggios and how the major
scale harmonizes. You can't really understand what you're doing with the
major scale until you do that AND are able to follow the chords better in your
soloing.
#4
Quote by Birdy266
Whoah another person from SA!! =O. Well i say dont base all your solo around scales, it limits to what you can do =D
Learn the rules before you break them (could someone tell me who on MT said that, its been in my head all week). Learn your theory and everything you think "limits you" and then break the rules.

And really think about the intervals of the mode you soloing with and the chord underneath it. Think about what that Major sixth of the dorian mode will sound like over a minor chord. Actually think about whats consonant and whats dissonant and about building up tension.

EDIT: Just remebered, analyze licks you think are good and use them. Alot of licks that professional musicians use are "borrowed." Do you think even Hendrix was 100% original?
        ,
        |\
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[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
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        L.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Aug 31, 2007,
#5
It's important to analyze your chordal background to use modes fully.
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#6
Quote by demonofthenight
Learn the rules before you break them (could someone tell me who on MT said that, its been in my head all week). Learn your theory and everything you think "limits you" and then break the rules.


A lot of people have said that including me. Its an old one.
#7
Quote by demonofthenight
Just remebered, analyze licks you think are good and use them. Alot of licks that professional musicians use are "borrowed." Do you think even Hendrix was 100% original?


yes that's an excellent way to progress. A lot of licks aren't just licks, they're more like underlying "DNA" of rock guitar: things like double-stops, oblique bends, used by everyone from Chuck Berry to Pantera. Start analyzing solos and guitarists you like and see if you can see things they have in common.
#8
here's basically how i do it... just use the the pentatonic and its modes and sometimes add in the extra notes, the notes in the pentatonic as a guide, generally they are the most melodic and are the best to land on between riffs...the best way i can think of this is that the extra notes (the 4th and 7th in the major scale) are like additional but unnecessary parts of the pentatonic scale, u add them to make it sound fancier and more complex

just remember that the aoleon (sp) scale lines up with the minor pentatonic and all the relative scales are raely the same with fewer notes and u should be OK
Last edited by IclaptonisgodI at Aug 31, 2007,
#9
If you want to write a metal solo, I would advise using a different minor mode than Dorian, in Joe Satriani's words, its 'the brightest of the dark ones'. My personal favourite is phrygian, sounds heavy and very exotic. So phrygian or locrian would be a better choice for a dark metal sound, although dorian is still capable of producing some great metal solos.

As far as licks are concerned, mix up the scale you're using with chromatics and see what sounds good and what doesnt and borrow licks from other guitarists, several minds are better than one afterall.
#10
Like Darthie sadi, whether a mode will sound "right" is entirely dependent on the chords you're playing over. If they fit with the particular mode then it'll sound good, that's why you need to know the relationship between chords and scales.
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#11
My guess is you`re trying to use modes incorrectly, you have to keep in mind, most times you change modes, you`ll be in the same key. So the modes for Cmaj for example are C-Ionian/D-Dorian/E-Phrygian/F-Lydian/G-Mixolydian/A-Aeolian/B-Locrian have the exact same notes in them.

So the way you want to use them is during a chord change, you want to play the mode that relates the chord happening. For instance you are playing in Cmaj, and you`re using a basic 1/5 chord progression (1/5 being the intervals) which would be C/G, you would switch the modes accordingly which would be C-Ionian, and G-Mixolydian.

Now since all the notes are the same in both modes you have to put emphasis on what makes to mode unique. For example, when you play G-Mixolydian the only difference between Mixolydian is that it has a flat 7th, so you would put emphasis on the first and seventh interval. Meaning you should AT LEAST start and end on where the tonal focus is. So you were probably just playing randomly down the scale, which does not represent what creates modes, and the mood of the music.

I`m bad at explaining things, but I hope this helped at least a little.
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#12
^ This is nonsense. This is not how you use modes.

As someone (edg) said in another thread, if you're trying to switch modes every time the chords change, generally, you're thinking way too much. There are exceptions of course, but not when all the notes are the same. (as in your example, C ionian = G mixolydian).

What I think you're talking about is targeting chord tones. Which is a much easier and simpler way of doing what you describe (emphasizing certain notes related to the underlying chord). Do a search for "targeting chord tones" or something along those lines.
#13
It's also going to take a while.
The first time you picked up a pentatonic, even though you were playing the 'right' notes, it probably didn't sound as good as it does now.

You have to get a feel for the mode, and that takes a while. It comes with practise, like everything else.
#14
LegendaryAXE: sorry if I was rude, guess I need another cup of coffee this morning. But also you struck a nerve, I've played for 35+ years and one of the things I've noticed over the years is this increasing tendancy among beginning players to over-complicate things. I think it started in the 80's when Eddie Yngwie Randy etc were big, and people started thinking they had to really get anal theory-wise. I mean, theory is great, it increases your understanding, but you've gotta learn how to walk before you start to run -- I mean, you've got kids getting way heavy into modes (which for rock guitar at least is a relatively small part of the overall picture) but they still can't even do a whole step bend.

At its most basic a mode is simply a certain sound. The sound of mixolydian is the sound of a major scale with a b7, the sound of phrygian is the sound of a minor scale with a b2, etc.

Generally you can hear a mode change - the underlying seven notes have changed somehow. So it's hard to argue that changing from C ionian to G mixolydian is really a mode change, because the underlying 7 notes haven't changed.

Now on the other hand if you are aware of the underlying chord tones, and you emphasize those, that *is* something you can hear, and generally it sounds good. For example, when you're in the key of C and the underlying chord changes to G, emphasizing the notes of the G chord (G, B, D). You can do this either musically (the note names) or visually (being aware of the underlying chord shape, this is where the CAGED system comes in handy).

"Obviously, if you're unsure what to do, playing off the (underlying) chord shape is a safe bet." -David Gilmour