#1
Science will save us
or so they say
religion will kill us
or so they say

but when it's all just theory
no-one can confirm
who can you trust
god or theory

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion

evolution remains unconfirmed
theoretical by nature
scientific by nurture

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion

They say god does not exist
yet they can not prove it
they say evolution exists
yet it is only a theory

God does not play dice
is a lie
God plays dice
it's only the dice are loaded

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
minds polluted by the science of religion.
Last edited by Draken at Sep 2, 2007,
#2
ummmm I appreciate (and agree) with what you're saying, however, there was a little bit too much repetition. Try to think of more ways to say what you're trying to say or say a little bit more. Maybe make it a little more personal. Write a verse about an atheist and a verse about a Christian (or whatever religion you're supporting here), comparing/contrasting them. The rest in your song can be summed up better in just a verse and a chorus, I think.

[EDIT]: I'd love a crit, if you have the time: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=662989
Dem Dry Bones
Current read: I Am America (And You Can Too) (Stephen Colbert)
Album of the Week: Four Thieves Gone (The Avett Brothers)
#3
yeah, i definetly agree with everything doc rock said. perhaps write about a particular event even? Maybe you could talk about the "war on terrorism" and the conflict of religions and sciences there.
#4
Those kinds of verses would make the topic too specific to be a dig against christianity and comparing it with western athiestic views which is not what i want. I want to keep the actually subject as general and vague as i can.
#6
Quote by NGD1313
At the Drive-In fan much?


Yes

you should see some of my earlier stuff, blatant radiohead ripoff.
#7
I rather enjoyed the read.
Quote by Draken
Those kinds of verses would make the topic too specific to be a dig against christianity and comparing it with western athiestic views which is not what i want. I want to keep the actually subject as general and vague as i can.
I liked the way you worked this. It is indeed vague. The strongest message that comes across is that neither can truly be proven. I think the repetition works well. The last verse felt a bit too far detached in style for my tastes, but you did bring things full-circle at the end of the last last line.

The one thing found most interesting about this piece:

They say god does not exist
yet they can not prove it


That's the crux of every Christian / Atheist debate.

btw, you used "scientic". misspelling or just something I'm not familiar with?


I don't have anything that needs a crit or comment right now, just comment on something from someone else that isn't getting much attention, if you have time.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#8
This is hideous. It's like reading an evangelical 5th grader talk about atheism. Also the "science of religion" is a grammatical monstrocity, it should be the religion of science in the context you are using it.

Also this

"theoretical by nature
scientic by nurture"

makes no sense either. Nurture? how the hell does that word fit there? Look the word up in a dictionary and stop rhyming for the sake of rhyming, what are you in Blink 182?

And that's ignoring the fact that your lyrics have the dumbest subject matter imaginable and that you carried them in the most in-eloquent, lowest common denominator fashion.

One of the worst set of lyrics I've ever read, without a doubt.
Last edited by lunchforthesky at Sep 2, 2007,
#9
Quote by lunchforthesky
This is pretty awful. It's like reading an evangelical 5th grader talk about atheism. Also the "science of religion" is a grammatical monstrocity, it should be the religion of science in the context you are using it.


actually it's meant to take neither side i'm saying neither side can be proved and that certain scientific ideas we accept as facts are as much a theory as the belief in god.
#10
Quote by Draken
actually it's meant to take neither side i'm saying neither side can be proved and that certain scientific ideas we accept as facts are as much a theory as the belief in god.


Accepting science based on empiracle evidence has only the most fleeting comparison to accepting a theistic God based on no evidence at all.

I can't prove beyond doubt that you or I exist, and I can't prove beyond doubt that ghosts don't exist but that doesn't make them on the same playing field.
#11
Quote by lunchforthesky
This is hideous. It's like reading an evangelical 5th grader talk about atheism. Also the "science of religion" is a grammatical monstrocity, it should be the religion of science in the context you are using it.

Also this

"theoretical by nature
scientic by nurture"

makes no sense either. Nurture? how the hell does that word fit there? Look the word up in a dictionary and stop rhyming for the sake of rhyming, what are you in Blink 182?

And that's ignoring the fact that your lyrics have the dumbest subject matter imaginable and that you carried them in the most in-eloquent, lowest common denominator fashion.

One of the worst set of lyrics I've ever read, without a doubt.


Sorry friend, that sort of behaviour is not tolerated here. You're not Simon Cowell, and even if you were, we still wouldn't let you get away with that kind of thing.


*Reported*
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#12
lunchforthesky, no place for such flaming here. Nothing of what you said even came close to being constructive.
This is not a pipe
#13
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Sorry friend, that sort of behaviour is not tolerated here. You're not Simon Cowell, and even if you were, we still wouldn't let you get away with that kind of thing.


*Reported*


What's wrong with "how the hell?"

Quote by carmel_l
lunchforthesky, no place for such flaming here. Nothing of what you said even came close to being constructive.

I would usually be constructive was that was just unfixable. Anyway point taken, I just won't bother in future.
#14
Lunchforthesky. i find your attitude highly offensive, you could have been a sensible rational human being like you athiests so love claiming to be, instead you come in insulting my work and giving over nothing constructive. I believe the adage goes if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.

Also the nature nurture thing was rhyming for the sake of rhyming it was a blunt analysis of how in it's purest form most science is unproved guesswork and only because of how people act towards it does it become accepted as fact when its premise is still as shaky as that of religion.
#15
Quote by Draken
Lunchforthesky. i find your attitude highly offensive, you could have been a sensible rational human being like you athiests so love claiming to be, instead you come in insulting my work and giving over nothing constructive. I believe the adage goes if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.


I'm not an atheist and I would of thought honesty is the best policy, to use another adage.


Also the nature nurture thing was rhyming for the sake of rhyming it was a blunt analysis of how in it's purest form most science is unproved guesswork


You mean guesswork like gravity and crazy theories like that. That you lack the abiltiy to understand what other DO understand does not make something guesswork.


and only because of how people act towards it does it become accepted as fact when its premise is still as shaky as that of religion.


The premise of evolution is that man came from bacteria to current man. We can measure thousands of moments in between that chain and in a lab we can prove in less complex animals that evolution occurs on a micro level. That is not anything like as shaky as the idea that God sprung from nowhere and created everything.
#16
Draken, I hope you'll forgive me for further mudding up your thread, but this is a matter of tutoring now, and he's made a right mess of your thread anyway.

Quote by lunchforthesky
What's wrong with "how the hell?"


I would usually be constructive was that was just unfixable. Anyway point taken, I just won't bother in future.

Here at S&L we handle things politely. We dissect the WORK and make comments and CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms. Granted "how the hell?" was the least of your transgressions, but still worthy of noting. It show incredulity, and is belittling. Poor form, mate.

If it was "unfixable", then don't bother in the first place.

You said "I just won't bother in the future", yet you came back:

Quote by lunchforthesky
I'm not an atheist and I would of thought honesty is the best policy, to use another adage.


You mean guesswork like gravity and crazy theories like that. That you lack the abiltiy to understand what other DO understand does not make something guesswork.


The premise of evolution is that man came from bacteria to current man. We can measure thousands of moments in between that chain and in a lab we can prove in less complex animals that evolution occurs on a micro level. That is not anything like as shaky as the idea that God sprung from nowhere and created everything.



This was an argument that has no place here. We don't argue about politics or religion or creationism -vs- evolution. This is NOT a forum for debate. It is ONLY for improving writing skills. Please read the rules before you ever return here.

For now, you apparently have a free 30 vacation. Use the time wisely.

Good luck,
SYK
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#17
Ill try not to let my opinions get in the way on this one.


Science will save us
or so they say
religion will kill us
or so they say


Its getting the point across but its a little blunt, and it doesnt flow too well.

but when it's all just theory
no-one can confirm
who can you trust
god or theory


Same as above.

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


same once again

evolution remains unconfirmed
theoretical by nature
scientific by nurture


Nurture doesnt fit too well in there, changing that word may fix it though.

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


Same thing i said earilier about this chorus.

They say god does not exist
yet they can not prove it
they say evolution exists
yet it is only a theory


Yes, but they cant prove god exists either so... god is just a theory, the same as evolution... Sorry i let my opinions get in the way there, but it does contradict the point your trying to make.

God does not play dice
is a lie
God plays dice
it's only the dice are loaded


The first two lines together, arent flowing in my head, if you could add a couple extra words to make the syllables flow together.

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


same as before.

and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
minds polluted by the science of religion.


Maybe make this verse not so repetitive.
#18
Quote by FreeManson15
Ill try not to let my opinions get in the way on this one.


Science will save us
or so they say
religion will kill us
or so they say


Its getting the point across but its a little blunt, and it doesnt flow too well.

but when it's all just theory
no-one can confirm
who can you trust
god or theory


Same as above.

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


same once again

evolution remains unconfirmed
theoretical by nature
scientific by nurture


Nurture doesnt fit too well in there, changing that word may fix it though.

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


Same thing i said earilier about this chorus.

They say god does not exist
yet they can not prove it
they say evolution exists
yet it is only a theory


Yes, but they cant prove god exists either so... god is just a theory, the same as evolution... Sorry i let my opinions get in the way there, but it does contradict the point your trying to make.

God does not play dice
is a lie
God plays dice
it's only the dice are loaded


The first two lines together, arent flowing in my head, if you could add a couple extra words to make the syllables flow together.

facts accepted without confirmation
is this not faith
the science of religion


same as before.

and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
and now we dance in burning ashes of the thesis
minds polluted by the science of religion.


Maybe make this verse not so repetitive.


thank you, you made nice arguements and criticisms and did it properly i'm thinking i might rewrite some of the work later and i'll certainly take your views into consideration.

someoneyouknew, you don't need to do that you know. he's banned so leave it mate.