#1
Hi, I've decided to expand my knowledge.

Now i know what these chords are, what they consist of, but I never know when to use them, I think i'm not use to how they sound.

Is there any way to learn where these chords should be used to sound effective?

What songs consist mostly of these chords?
#2
Essentially, the use of 7ths in chords is very common in most musics (except for something like punk I suppose which is almost exclusively power chords which really isn't a chord at all!). Depends on what kind of music you are trying to fit these 7ths into. If it is punk music it will probably sound awful, however, something like jazz relies heavily on the inclusion of the 7th to virtually every chord. You can look at any lead sheet of a jazz tune and if the chord doesn't have the 7th written it will almost everytime (unless the melody over that particular chord restricts the use of a 7th *very rarely so much so that I've never encountered a time in which I've played a jazz tune where the addition of a 7th on a chord was inappropriate but this isn't to say that it isn't possible). In addition to jazz, the blues is basically one big genre of dominant 7ths and minor 7ths. Now I'm not a pop enthusiast, however, a lot of pop music does include the 7th, like Jack Johnson.
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#3
^Most forms of rock (including punk) use mostly major and minor triads and rarely use sevenths. By the way, metal is the one with power chords, not punk.
#4
Punk is pretty power chordish I don't see how you can disagree with that, but yes I did forget metal.
If everyone liked what I did, I probably wouldn't be playing anything of depth.

—Joshua Redman
#5
7ths generally create a lot of tension, leading into release.
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#6
Quote by Muphin
7ths generally create a lot of tension, leading into release.


could you please explain this?
#7
You probably already know this, but in a major key the seventh chords are

Imaj7 - iim7 - iiim7 - IVmaj7 - V7 - vim7 - viim7b5
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#8
Quote by Ænimus Prime
You probably already know this, but in a major key the seventh chords are

Imaj7 - iim7 - iiim7 - IVmaj7 - V7 - vim7 - viim7b5



thats it, that is sevenths in jazz, these are thchords you play to get your modes sounding strongly
#9
Quote by henza_x
could you please explain this?


I will. That's mostly wrong. You mostly just use them when you want that
kind of sound.

7ths just extend a chord's harmony.

Chord harmony in a nutshell: start at the root and start adding every other note
(3rds)

Building your basic chords:

Here's 2 octaves:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

X 2 X 4 X 6 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 (major triad)
X 2 X 4 X 6 X 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 (7th)
X 2 X 4 X 6 X 1 X 3 4 5 6 7 1 (9th)
X 2 X 4 X 6 X 1 X 3 X 5 6 7 1 (11th)
X 2 X 4 X 6 X 1 X 3 X 5 X 7 1 (13th)

That's it. Why is there nothing after 13th? Extend it again and you're on 1. We
started with that! So we're cycled back to the beginning and we're done.
#10
Quote by RhoadsSRV8290
Punk is pretty power chordish I don't see how you can disagree with that, but yes I did forget metal.


I don't know of any punk bands that use power chords. Everyone says The Offspring did, but I don't know because I haven't listened to the songs myself enough to tell. I really don't know how the power chord stereotype got started.
#11
Quote by werty22
I don't know of any punk bands that use power chords. Everyone says The Offspring did, but I don't know because I haven't listened to the songs myself enough to tell. I really don't know how the power chord stereotype got started.


Generation X
Ben
#12
Quote by werty22
I don't know of any punk bands that use power chords. Everyone says The Offspring did, but I don't know because I haven't listened to the songs myself enough to tell. I really don't know how the power chord stereotype got started.


Hmm... Ramones? Sex Pistols? Various 80's and 90's punk bands?

Obviously, there will be exceptions, but most of that stuff is power-chord-based.
#13
The Ramones and The Sex Pistols both used barre chords, as did most punk bands. I just listened to a couple of Generation X songs on Youtube, and they had barre chords, too. But It doesn't really matter, I don't want to start an argument about this.
#14
Many many many punk songs use powerchords. There is no way to dispute this since it is a provable fact.

Edg, I'm a little confused. You disagree that 7th chords create tension? How could they not, when a X7 chord contains a b5 and a XM7 chord contains a M7 interval? I may have missed your point.
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#15
This thread is about sevenths chords, not whether punk songs have powerchords in them or not. I should report you all for spamming without answering.

Different seventh chords have different ammounts of tension.

Major sevenths have more tension then ordinary triads, but less than the other seventh chords.

Minor sevenths have a little more than major seventh, but less than dominant sevenths. And dominant seventh have the most out of all the seventh chords, but a lot less tension than diminished and augmented chords.

And Seventh chords are usually used to lead to the next chord. This is because they have the leading tone included in the chord (the leading tone is the seventh degree of the scale). They are also used to add *slight ammounts* of tension to your songs or to flavour your chords.

If you want to go crazy with the tension, use diminished chords and augmented chords.


EDIT:
Quote by nightwind
Edg, I'm a little confused. You disagree that 7th chords create tension? How could they not, when a X7 chord contains a b5 and a XM7 chord contains a M7 interval? I may have missed your point.
XM7 chords are only dissonant if they have an octave stacked at the end of the chord, creating a m2 between the M7 and the 8ve, which as you know is very dissonant in a major chord.

Otherwise the major7 chord is pretty consonant, mostly because that M7 is a M3 away from the fifth, and because it's a major chord the chord becomes quite consonant.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Sep 7, 2007,
#16
Quote by RhoadsSRV8290
Now I'm not a pop enthusiast, however, a lot of pop music does include the 7th, like Jack Johnson.


Spice Girls songs are FULL of 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th chords in all kinds of inversions. Seriously. It's quite educational to have a look at some transcriptions.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#17
Quote by Resiliance
Spice Girls songs are FULL of 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th chords in all kinds of inversions. Seriously. It's quite educational to have a look at some transcriptions.


SURE!

you may think that just because it's cheesy pop crap, the music will be too.... but realisticly these pop groups have proffessional musicians writing out the cheesy pop beats!! Its not as if posh and baby spice sit down and transcribe some progressions

Its the poppy bands that DO write their own music that show 'basic' musicianship.... then again, i quite like Blink 182
#18
Quote by nightwind
Edg, I'm a little confused. You disagree that 7th chords create tension? How could they not, when a X7 chord contains a b5 and a XM7 chord contains a M7 interval? I may have missed your point.


A major 7th chord is used often as a resolution. It hardly has much tension then.
I just think of extended chords as harmonic extentions. But, I suppose you
could say it would add some relative amount of tension to anything, so NM.
#19
Quote by edg
A major 7th chord is used often as a resolution.
Maybe in jazz, but then again, in alot of jazz songs ALL the chords have their seventh degrees added on.

I wouldn't normally resolve on a 7th chord of any kind. I still say that seventh chords are leading chords. They lead to other chords.

Quote by Resiliance
Spice Girls songs are FULL of 7th, 9th, 11th and 13th chords in all kinds of inversions. Seriously. It's quite educational to have a look at some transcriptions.
You serious? I always assumed their chords would be just triads. But yeah, pop stars would hire some really ridiculuosly good artist's to write their music, so I guess that would be logical.
Any suggestions of a song like that?
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Sep 7, 2007,
#20
There are 2 sevenths. Original 7th and flat 7. Original 7th is gentle and sounds pretty nice, and also leads into the next chord. Flat 7 (b7) is a powerful musical note, often used in the blues, jazz and all sorts of music. In chord progressions, you'll encounter a lot of I-IV-V7 progressions, because the last V7 leads to back to the I. I'd say a b7 is more aggressive, while major 7th is nice and soft. Of course, a major 7th can also lead to the next chord, but it's far softer than b7.

Hope it helps.
"The end result - the music - is all that counts"
#21
Quote by branny1982
SURE!

you may think that just because it's cheesy pop crap, the music will be too.... but realisticly these pop groups have proffessional musicians writing out the cheesy pop beats!! Its not as if posh and baby spice sit down and transcribe some progressions

Its the poppy bands that DO write their own music that show 'basic' musicianship.... then again, i quite like Blink 182


... That's what I'm saying.

Quote by demonofthenight
You serious? I always assumed their chords would be just triads. But yeah, pop stars would hire some really ridiculuosly good artist's to write their music, so I guess that would be logical.
Any suggestions of a song like that?


Two Become One. Most of their stuff, really.

Edit: check out Paul Gilbert's version of Two Become One. He's the one that brought the Spice Girls song structures to my attention, so credit goes to him
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.