#1
i'm looking for a pedal that'll push my tubes so i get a saturated tone at low volumes (what an attenuator does actually). first of all, does it exist ???
if yes, which one would you recommend ?
if no, what are good alternatives (no attenuators please).


#2
overdrive or tube screamer.
Dissonance is Bliss


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#3
tisk tisk tisk.

that is why you should have bought.
...


...


... A LINE S1X SP7D3RZ LAWL!

hahaha.


Why not an attenuator?
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#4
Quote by The red Strat.
i'm looking for a pedal that'll push my tubes so i get a saturated tone at low volumes (what an attenuator does actually). first of all, does it exist ???
if yes, which one would you recommend ?
if no, what are good alternatives (no attenuators please).



why don't u like attenuators???...

an Electro-Harmonix LPB, MXR Micro Amp, BBE Boosta Grande are some boosters that are intended to do what you want to do. but in blues and classic rock, poweramp saturation is everything attenuators are 100 times better than just getting a booster and turning the master volume down.
Call me "Shot".

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#5
Attenuators make you lose tone, amirite? I have a Tube EQ pedal [Blue Tube by Tube Works, discontinued company] and that's running through my effects loop, and I can crank my amp up to 10, and have it quiet as a whisper thanks to it's "Output" and "Drive" feature, so it works as an attenuator almost, but without losing tone.
I got some good guitars, yo.
#6
damn do you start like 4 new thread everyday? your like arlabester. and tubescreamers, boosters (rangemaster, lpb, bbe pedals, seymour duncan makes a pedal), all that jazz will "drive" your tubes harder, but its much better to just crank it (or partially)
#7
if you get Weber attenuators they don't suck tone. it's very minimal.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


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#8
Pushing your preamp tubes would require an overdrive or boost pedal, like the ones EC reccomended. Pushing your power amp, though, can only be achieved one way- turning up the master. If it isn't loud, they aren't working hard. I'd say just make do with preamp distortion when you can't turn your amp up, or use an OD or something of the sort to get cranked-ish tones without cranking.
#9
Quote by Leat
Attenuators make you lose tone, amirite? I have a Tube EQ pedal [Blue Tube by Tube Works, discontinued company] and that's running through my effects loop, and I can crank my amp up to 10, and have it quiet as a whisper thanks to it's "Output" and "Drive" feature, so it works as an attenuator almost, but without losing tone.


you still not cranking the power tubes, like what an attenuator would do. If you want a power amp saturation, get an attenuator. Im sure you've seen all those gimmicks that gets sold on ebay which are nothing more than gain pedals and false statements that say putting em in the efx loops acts as an attenuator.

And an attenuator wont affect your tone much. Unless you're a tone freak who can hear differences when change your guitar's plastic knob to a metal one. (okay not that drastic, but still)
Peavey 5150, LTD EX400BD, tubescreamer, and a whole lotta fingers
Last edited by ~Andrea-Angel~ at Sep 4, 2007,
#10
If you have an effects loop, crank your amp and the pre-gain a fair bit, and put another overdrive pedal in the FX loop with no drive and the level as low as you need.
#11
Quote by National_Anthem
If you have an effects loop, crank your amp and the pre-gain a fair bit, and put another overdrive pedal in the FX loop with no drive and the level as low as you need.

the post above you said that those are just gimicks on eBay that don't work. and if you have a parallel FX loop, it doesn't work. that still won't be achieving poweramp saturation either.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


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#12
Quote by ECistheBest
the post above you said that those are just gimicks on eBay that don't work. and if you have a parallel FX loop, it doesn't work. that still won't be achieving poweramp saturation either.


I'm doing that right now it sounds about as cranked as I can get without cranking it. A volume pedal in the FX loop might work, too.
#13
it's not powertube saturation. seriously. get me. powertube saturation is when you load a LARGE signal into the powertubes of your amp, and thus overdriving the powertubes. in your case, you're putting the pedal as kind of a volume knob, to lower the signal going through the FX loop right? then, the LARGE signal stated above would be attenuated (lowered), so thus meaning that you're just turning up the amp without getting the proper powertube saturation. ur getting ripped off man...
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


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#14
Quote by ECistheBest
it's not powertube saturation. seriously. get me. powertube saturation is when you load a LARGE signal into the powertubes of your amp, and thus overdriving the powertubes. in your case, you're putting the pedal as kind of a volume knob, to lower the signal going through the FX loop right? then, the LARGE signal stated above would be attenuated (lowered), so thus meaning that you're just turning up the amp without getting the proper powertube saturation. ur getting ripped off man...


My FX loop is post-power amp, I thought that was where they all are
#15
what amp do you have? cause i can't believe any pedal can survive the insane signal level after the signal goes through the poweramp... i mean seriously. that just means putting it between ur amp and ur speakers... ur FX loop is useless then... o.O
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#16
Quote by ECistheBest
what amp do you have? cause i can't believe any pedal can survive the insane signal level after the signal goes through the poweramp... i mean seriously. that just means putting it between ur amp and ur speakers... ur FX loop is useless then... o.O


ah, that's true, I'm getting confused. Kindly disregard everything I said in this thread.
#17
lol its cool man. if you get the whole thing bout amps, pedals, guitars, u can be more confident posting on this forum.


i once recommended an MG to a guy and got bashed bad. thats in august '06 though.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#18
So how do you connect an attenuator? Do you plug the speaker cable into it at one end and then link it to your amp with a link cable (like what you use to connect effects)?
#19
^yep. but u'd need a speaker cable for both ends though.

hey how does your Smallbox Fuzz Face sound? can u provide me with the specs, the transistors u used, maybe the hFe on it? and the sound? i've been interested in that fuzz layout for a while...
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


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#20
Well i used this page for a schematic. I used two AC128 transistors. It sounds really hendrixy really fuzzy!! its great!! Not that difficult to build really... that was my first build... my second build was the esayvibe which was more complex.
Last edited by L_Buckingham at Sep 4, 2007,
#21
^nice. i might build them during the school year if im bored before or after finals hahaha. i'm perfecting my guitar first though.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#22
Quote by ECistheBest
lol its cool man. if you get the whole thing bout amps, pedals, guitars, u can be more confident posting on this forum.


i once recommended an MG to a guy and got bashed bad. thats in august '06 though.


Ok, just I thought the whole point of an FX loop was so you could apply effects after the cranked tube sound
#23
nope. it goes before the poweramp, but after the preamp. if you put a pedal after the poweramp (cranked), it would either clip like a mother ****er, or just blow up. its way too much signal. the PCB traces would start to heat up, melt, and you wouldn't be able to use any part of the pedal except the enclosure.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#24
Quote by ECistheBest
nope. it goes before the poweramp, but after the preamp. if you put a pedal after the poweramp (cranked), it would either clip like a mother ****er, or just blow up. its way too much signal. the PCB traces would start to heat up, melt, and you wouldn't be able to use any part of the pedal except the enclosure.


ah ok.
#25
I just started looking into attenuators, but I really don't know **** about them. I saw some for like 300€. So what do you actually need to pay attention to? And how much should you pay? And will the cheaps alter you tone? And can you use them on Combos (I guess you should since the speakers are simply connected to the amp as with cabinets).

Anyway, would anybody mind to tell me more about attenuators and which ones to get!?
#26
Quote by ECistheBest
nope. it goes before the poweramp, but after the preamp. if you put a pedal after the poweramp (cranked), it would either clip like a mother ****er, or just blow up. its way too much signal. the PCB traces would start to heat up, melt, and you wouldn't be able to use any part of the pedal except the enclosure.

+1 to what EC said. Besides destroying the box, you would probably fry the amp's OT too since it would be the wrong impedance load. Those attenuator boxes in the fx loop are a gimmick, unless your amp doesn't have a master vol already, which is essentially what those boxes do.

Quote by Onkel Cannabia
I just started looking into attenuators, but I really don't know **** about them. I saw some for like 300€. So what do you actually need to pay attention to? And how much should you pay? And will the cheaps alter you tone? And can you use them on Combos (I guess you should since the speakers are simply connected to the amp as with cabinets).

Anyway, would anybody mind to tell me more about attenuators and which ones to get!?

you need to pay attention to what Impedance ranges it will work with, which will be listed, and how much wattage it can handle. Keep in mind, amps are usually rated in watts by how high they go without clipping, so in actuality, they can put out more power than they are rated if you are overdriving the powertubes into clipping, which is why most people would buy an attenuator. Yes you can use them on combos. The attenuator just needs to go between the amp and speakers, so as long as your internal speaker just plugs into the back, it should be cake. If not, you would have to wire in the jacks yourself, but the concept is the same.

Look at the weber units, apparantly very good units for the price. I have a THD hotplate that I'm happy with, but I haven't tried the weber, which everyone says is better. Cheapest will probalby be the Weber units, but make sure you get a unit that's rated higher than your amp's output wattage. The only other one I have checked out is the Dr. Z. airbrake, which is supposed to be a very good unit.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at Sep 4, 2007,
#27
Quote by ECistheBest
^yep. but u'd need a speaker cable for both ends though.

hey how does your Smallbox Fuzz Face sound? can u provide me with the specs, the transistors u used, maybe the hFe on it? and the sound? i've been interested in that fuzz layout for a while...

Thought you already had a Fuzz Face? The one on Smallbox is the same as any other schematic, if you do.
#28
Quote by s.r.v.
damn do you start like 4 new thread everyday? your like arlabester. and tubescreamers, boosters (rangemaster, lpb, bbe pedals, seymour duncan makes a pedal), all that jazz will "drive" your tubes harder, but its much better to just crank it (or partially)

yeah i know i don't have anything better to do, and besides, i'm not the only one who's learning from my thread eh ? and that's why were here, for fun or to learn.
you should be happy that i'm a thread post freak, otherwise you wouldn't have much to read

thanks everyone, i'll consider an attenuator again (still turned of by the tone loss though) and look into the pedals named. but is there an actual sound difference between preamp tubes that go into Od and power amp tubes they're both tubes that overdrive...
#29
Can't really find anything here in Germany. Just like 2 or 3 and they are all more than 300

But I have another question about the wattage. I have a JSX and the half power switch is set on low. So I guess a 100Watt attenuator would be more than enough!?
#31
Quote by The red Strat.
thanks everyone, i'll consider an attenuator again (still turned of by the tone loss though) and look into the pedals named. but is there an actual sound difference between preamp tubes that go into Od and power amp tubes they're both tubes that overdrive...

yes, big difference. Almost all the classic rock recordings you hear are using poweramp overdrive. Amps didn't even have pre-amp overdrive until Mesa Boogie modified a Fender Princeton with an extra gain stage. That was the first real high gain head, the Mark I. Preamp tube overdrive can be a little buzzy sounding, and nowhere near as dynamic as powertube overdrive. It's easier to shape preamp gain however, since it's part of the tone stack, so easier to keep it tight and defined. Poweramp overdrive tends to sound a little looser, but much more natural and less harsh.

Quote by Onkel Cannabia
But I have another question about the wattage. I have a JSX and the half power switch is set on low. So I guess a 100Watt attenuator would be more than enough!?

I wouldn't purposely boobytrap your setup like that, I would get an attenuator that can handle your amp's full output. I think the combo JSX is rated at like 130W? It would probably work seeing as how you have a halfpower switch, but you can always use a higher rated attenuator with a much lower wattage amp. You would fry a 100W attenuator pushing a 130W tube amp into saturation.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at Sep 4, 2007,