#1
It's been a while. First writing in more than 4 months. I don't quite know what to think of it, so c4c, of course.

She was Bujold and I was Nelligan

The evening was cold and the lake was still
Fortunately, we had new people to meet.
It takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.

We approached a pair of college girls,
apparently around for one of their classes,
They asked us the usual, how long we've had been here,
What kind of music we liked, what were we studying in...

Then it went from a passionate discussion about
moral values and sex equality, to
a name-drop race of Quebec's literacy men
And women, obviously
At first we'd talk about their political views,
the imprisonments in the 70's
which ultimately led us to debate on
how their poetry was perceived.

So we cheered to Miron and to Gauthier
"I thought he was French?"
"Well cheer to Leclerc, then! ,
'Toute façon on est eink des cousins éloignés!"

Et ainsi nous bûmes aux hommes et au femmes,
Bref, au peuple, à qui nous étions vraiment,
avant de nous engouffrer dans le pathétisme habituel
des expériences personnelles; elle était Bujold et j'étais Nelligan.
Puis, sans qu'aucun de nous ne le veuille vraiment,
nous fûmes empris, comme de faibles aimants,
de nos corps amants, et je me laissai assimiler
"just because it was the easy thing to do"

Thursday night felt more like a sunday evening walk
A sugar-loving girl with caramel nipples
Melting from artificial heat and expansive ale
Because it takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.
Last edited by circular.parade at Nov 26, 2008,
#3
The evening was cold and the lake was still
Fortunately, we had new people to meet.
It takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.


Very good casual rhyme and flow in this beginning Mat, I like it. Actually the flow is really good, esp lines 3 + 4, and the implied sexual undertones, which I assume are purposeful give a cool tone.


We approached a pair of college girls,
apparently around for one of their classes,
They asked us the usual, how long we've had been here,
What kind of music we liked, what were we studying in...


This part is a bit bland I think. OK so I can understand why its here to set the scene of the conversation but there are many more interesting ways you could have put this. I have no real suggestions but I would have looked at this part of the story from a different angle to get the situation across in a less amtter of fact way.


Then it went from an passionate discussion about
moral values and sex equality, to
a name-drop race of Quebec's literacy men
And women, obviously
At first we'd talk about their political views,
the imprisonments in the 70's
which ultimately led us to debate on
how perceived was their poetry


This part is good I love the line breaks, think they give massive effect which you've used brilliantly. Couple of things though... it should be "a passionate discussion", not "an", and I think the last line would read better as "How their poetry was perceived". I can see an interesting couple of stanza's erupting from here, its a shame I can only read one of them


So we cheered to Miron and to Gauthier
"I thought he was French?"
"Well cheer to Leclerc, then! ,
on n'est que des cousins éloignés anyways, eh?"


Gotta love some direct speech in a conversational piece The phrasing of line 1 is very good too.


Et ainsi nous bûmes aux hommes et au femmes,
Bref, au peuple, à qui nous étions vraiment,
avant de nous engouffrer dans le pathétisme habituel
des expériences personnelles; elle était Bujold et j'étais Nelligan.
Puis, sans qu'aucun de nous ne le veuille vraiment,
nous fûmes empris, comme de faibles aimants,
de nos corps amants, et je me laissai assimiler
"just because it was the easy thing to do"


Can you put up a translation for this part? My French isnt what it used to be! Not that it ever was much. I have a feeling this is a sort of necessary stanza to complete the story, and I'm missing out.


Thursday night felt more like a sunday evening walk
A sugar-loving girl with caramel nipples
Melting from artificial heat and expansive ale
Because it takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.


Love the descriptions in this ending, the first time in the piece that you;ve really broken into any descriptive writing and its very nice. comparing the feel of the nights results in quite a relaxed mood, at least for me, and I think that is what you were aiming for so good job. Caramel Nipples, eh? Sounds good!

This is a pretty decent piece overall, but the bland second stanza and the part I couldn't realy make it feel a little stilted, or incomplete. The parts that were good, however, were very good. Some very nice stuff here.

I have one up if you want to take a look Thanks




love is a dog from hell.



#4
Love the smutiness, Mat.

I'll agree with the above. The second stanza felt lacking, there wasn't anything in it that moved the piece too far forward or had you thinking. It was similar to the first but the first stanza was better in my eyes as it had that bit of light sexual connotation in it, which kept the interest. I just think it needs something to give it it's own spark.

This was a good read Mat- obviously without the French I won't have got most (or any) of what you intended, but I did enjoy the piece.

#5
Much thanks to both of you, guys.

I guess I changed my mind as to what I intended to do with this piece, and didn't adjust the second stanza in consequence. I'll think about what I can do.

Thank you Chris for the small corrections, my English's a bit rusty still. .

As for that French stanza, I guess I can translate roughly. I won't work on the flow/rhymes, I'll just translate the meaning...it's meant to be read in french and it does play a huge role in the piece... here it goes :

And so we drank to the men and women,
well, to the people, to who we really were,
before down falling in the usual pathetism
of personal experiences ; she was Bujold and I was Nelligan.
Then, without any of us really wanting it,
we fell under control, like weak magnets,
of our lusting bodies, and I let myself being assimilated.
"just because it was the easy thing to do"

it's really roughly translated. I guess it conveys the substance, but as for the style, please stick to the french stanza above. There are reasons I didn't write it like I just did.

I'll get back to both of yours shortly.
#6
Sorry it's late. My computer crashed last night.


The evening was cold and the lake was still
Fortunately, we had new people to meet.
It takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.

Ehh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Just a little bland to me I suppose. Particularly I think you could have put the second line better.

We approached a pair of college girls,
apparently around for one of their classes,
They asked us the usual, how long we've had been here,
What kind of music we liked, what were we studying in...

"we've had been here" isn't grammatically correct, either we've or we had been here. Other than that, nothing notable to me as interesting or horrible. I like the setting and storytelling, it's something I like to do.

Then it went from a passionate discussion about
moral values and sex equality, to
a name-drop race of Quebec's literacy men
And women, obviously
At first we'd talk about their political views,
the imprisonments in the 70's
which ultimately led us to debate on
how their poetry was perceived.

I like this stanza.

So we cheered to Miron and to Gauthier
"I thought he was French?"
"Well cheer to Leclerc, then! ,
on n'est que des cousins éloignés anyways, eh?"

Eh, I know nothing of quebec's writers... but I suppose this would be very interesting to those who do.

Et ainsi nous bûmes aux hommes et au femmes,
Bref, au peuple, à qui nous étions vraiment,
avant de nous engouffrer dans le pathétisme habituel
des expériences personnelles; elle était Bujold et j'étais Nelligan.
Puis, sans qu'aucun de nous ne le veuille vraiment,
nous fûmes empris, comme de faibles aimants,
de nos corps amants, et je me laissai assimiler
"just because it was the easy thing to do"

Um. I don't speak french. I would say unnecessary foreign language makes you look like a prick, but it's relevant.

Thursday night felt more like a sunday evening walk
A sugar-loving girl with caramel nipples
Melting from artificial heat and expansive ale
Because it takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.

I love this stanza. Especially caramel nipples, anything that makes me hungry and turns me on is awesome.

Overall... it was written well. Not really my style or choice of subject matter, but I'm sure the intellectuals will love it. ;]

-Jacob
#7
Nice, I like it. The French threw me off a bit, my grasp of the language is appalling, but I still quite like it. Throughout the piece I personally got an air of mystery and things unspoken, the fact I couldn't understand a stanza strengthens the piece as a whole.

I can see why people are saying the second stanza is a bit bland, but I think it gives the piece a sense of normality. Whereas the rest is quite intellectual and prompts thought, this stanza is what keeps you from wandering off so far you don't know what the Hell you're thinking.
The will to neither strive nor cry,
The power to feel with others give.
Calm, calm me more; nor let me die
Before I have begun to live.

-Matthew Arnold

Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing.
#8
Haha, well, thanks Jacob. I appreciate your point of view.

And thank you for the kind words Hannah. I can understand how French can be a problem for a majority of people but yeah it plays a major role here. I'm glad you got this feeling of "mystery and things unspoken", it's a huge part of what motivated me to write this up. Thanks a lot.

And Jamie, I did not forget you. you'll get it today.
#9
The evening was cold and the lake was still
Fortunately, we had new people to meet.
It takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.



the last 2 lines are many more syllables long then the first 2, so unless the music changes to accomadate, then
you may want to work on that, unless this is a poem, then its all good.


We approached a pair of college girls,
apparently around for one of their classes,
They asked us the usual, how long we've had been here,
What kind of music we liked, what were we studying in...


Then it went from a passionate discussion about
moral values and sex equality, to
a name-drop race of Quebec's literacy men
And women, obviously
At first we'd talk about their political views,
the imprisonments in the 70's
which ultimately led us to debate on
how their poetry was perceived.

So we cheered to Miron and to Gauthier
"I thought he was French?"
"Well cheer to Leclerc, then! ,
on n'est que des cousins éloignés anyways, eh?"

Et ainsi nous bûmes aux hommes et au femmes,
Bref, au peuple, à qui nous étions vraiment,
avant de nous engouffrer dans le pathétisme habituel
des expériences personnelles; elle était Bujold et j'étais Nelligan.
Puis, sans qu'aucun de nous ne le veuille vraiment,
nous fûmes empris, comme de faibles aimants,
de nos corps amants, et je me laissai assimiler
"just because it was the easy thing to do"



these three verses just feel like your talking.

Thursday night felt more like a sunday evening walk
A sugar-loving girl with caramel nipples
Melting from artificial heat and expansive ale
Because it takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.



then it goes back to poetic sounding, i like the first and last verses, but in my opinion the middle
needs some work. check this out: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=667850
#10
Quote by FreeManson15
The evening was cold and the lake was still
Fortunately, we had new people to meet.
It takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.



the last 2 lines are many more syllables long then the first 2, so unless the music changes to accomadate, then
you may want to work on that, unless this is a poem, then its all good.


We approached a pair of college girls,
apparently around for one of their classes,
They asked us the usual, how long we've had been here,
What kind of music we liked, what were we studying in...


Then it went from a passionate discussion about
moral values and sex equality, to
a name-drop race of Quebec's literacy men
And women, obviously
At first we'd talk about their political views,
the imprisonments in the 70's
which ultimately led us to debate on
how their poetry was perceived.

So we cheered to Miron and to Gauthier
"I thought he was French?"
"Well cheer to Leclerc, then! ,
on n'est que des cousins éloignés anyways, eh?"

Et ainsi nous bûmes aux hommes et au femmes,
Bref, au peuple, à qui nous étions vraiment,
avant de nous engouffrer dans le pathétisme habituel
des expériences personnelles; elle était Bujold et j'étais Nelligan.
Puis, sans qu'aucun de nous ne le veuille vraiment,
nous fûmes empris, comme de faibles aimants,
de nos corps amants, et je me laissai assimiler
"just because it was the easy thing to do"



these three verses just feel like your talking.

Thursday night felt more like a sunday evening walk
A sugar-loving girl with caramel nipples
Melting from artificial heat and expansive ale
Because it takes more than just a foot-warmer and comfortable sheets
To get through late summer nights in this part of the country.



then it goes back to poetic sounding, i like the first and last verses, but in my opinion the middle
needs some work. check this out: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=667850



https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=657361
#11
ah well, sorry man. i just post my latest post on the end of everything, i wasnt trying to say you had to crit my ****...oh well, sorry.
#12
This is a brilliant exercise in subtlety and flows ever-so-neatly.
It certainly has a... (oh god I'm almost wincing at saying this ) je ne sais quoi to it.
I'm hard-pressed to find how to improve it.
#13
Hello, remember me? I am going to try and give you a little comment, though I don't really know if it will help much. The first stanza was good, I liked the feel it had, I'm not sure if I was to keen on the way you did the first to lines, they seemed a bit blunt, but you made up for it in the next two. That next stanza, I'm afraid I agree with Jamie, was quite lacking, it was missing an element of spice, or interest to it. It was pretty solid straight forward writing but nothing that grasped my attention. Third stanza, was great, very creative, I loved the line breaks and the way it really led onto itself, if you know what I mean. I also liked the pace it had, you managed to give it a fast, almost excited pace. Very good job. Oui, je parle un peu de francais, mais ca est tres complique poor moi. Je seulment entendu en peus. To be honest, I didn't understand any.

Right, I liked the ending, it was a very descriptive stanza with some great imagery but I though that last line was lacking something. I mean yes, it works as an ending, and a great one too, but it felt a bit, I dunno, you understand me. It wasn't really the way I would have wanted this to finish, though that is really personal taste. Hope that helps Matt.

#14
I think I might be the only person who actually understood the French..

Anyway this piece was straight up amazing. Absolutely wonderful. A few things I didn't particularly like. But whatever. Good stuff.
マリ「しあわっせはーあるいってこないだーからあるいってゆっくんだねーん 
いっちにっちいっぽみーかでさんぽ
 さーんぽすすんでにっほさっがるー 
じーんせいはっわんつー!ぱんち・・・


"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear." - from Tao Te Ching

#15
I've never liked seeing someone write in foreign languages on this forum. Honestly, I can't think of a more pretentious form of artsy writing. Doing a whole verse in French almost took me out of the entire piece. The refernces to Miron and Gauthier and literature felt so "artfully" forced. I reference stuff a lot, but they're usually dumb refernces, like some stupid quote from a zombie film, or something stupid about Bruce Willis as a way of parody. But the honest to God literature and art references always take me out of a piece.


Sorry all I had to mention was a minor irk of mine, but it's all I got out of it. You set the piece up, and I was hoping to read a very blunt piece about two people meeting new people and just talking. But I was let down by this air of smug conversation, or at least that's what it felt like.
Poor advice.
#16
Quote by stellar_legs
I've never liked seeing someone write in foreign languages on this forum. Honestly, I can't think of a more pretentious form of artsy writing. Doing a whole verse in French almost took me out of the entire piece. The refernces to Miron and Gauthier and literature felt so "artfully" forced. I reference stuff a lot, but they're usually dumb refernces, like some stupid quote from a zombie film, or something stupid about Bruce Willis as a way of parody. But the honest to God literature and art references always take me out of a piece.


Sorry all I had to mention was a minor irk of mine, but it's all I got out of it. You set the piece up, and I was hoping to read a very blunt piece about two people meeting new people and just talking. But I was let down by this air of smug conversation, or at least that's what it felt like.

I didn't feel like explaining that here but oh well. I felt so despised by your comment that I just had to..

I can understand your point of view, but you're missing the whole point of the piece. Like anything artistic, a movie, a painting, whatever, it has to be taken in context. this piece just ain't about me, or people. Here's a few things you should consider.

-My first language ain't English. I've learned it mostly by browsing through these forums. Prior to that, it was just reading lyrics and attending public school, and believe me, you don't get anywhere near decent just with that. Therefore, I don't feel it's "pretentious" for me to include French in my writing. Keep in mind that for me, English is the "foreign language". You might think that the whole world revolves around you, but when it comes to pieces that I've been writing, it certainly ain't the case.

-You may also note that French ain't just thrown in -- in fact it's the main pillar to the message of this piece. It's not "a blunt piece about two people talking". It's a simple, to-the-point metaphor about Quebec's language situation as of now. I know you've probably heard of personification before.

-If you look at the way the references are thrown in, it's actually in a ridiculous, sarcastic way. That whole stanza is just there to demonstrate people's misunderstanding and nearly absent knowledge of our literature.

-I did not expect many people to actually get this piece, because of the language barrier. But you were part of the few that, I thought, could actually take the time to understand it. Not because of your attitude towards me since I joined these boards, certainly not, but just because of your overall understanding of poetic tools and stylistic figures.

I'm sorry if I've been overly defensive with this reply, perhaps I should have done this through PMs, but it's not the first time I feel despised by comments of yours and I felt like I needed to explain many things. I guess that the fact that you qualified something of mine as pretentious really threw me off.

Perhaps I failed to deliver anything with this piece, perhaps the message wasn't clear enough, perhaps I didn't success to convey most of what I wanted to. But I just felt like letting you know that your perception of this piece, and the attitude you had in your reply, were both screaming "I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about!". Yeah, I guess it can happen every once in a while.

Hopefully that makes things clear. No harsh feelings.

Yeah, honestly.
-Mathieu
#17
"Not because of your attitude towards me since I've joined these boards."

You make it seem like I've had a grudge against you for a long time, when in actuality I can't be bothered to care too much personally about people on this board.

I had no idea you were from Quebec. And usually when I see someone writing in French or Spanish or something else in their pieces, it's usually some teenager from America out somewhere in the suburban Midwest jerking off to Brand New albums trying their hardest to present a level of intelligence they have yet to attain.

Given everything, I guess I jumped the gun a little bit. So um, yeah, no hard feelings.
Poor advice.