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#1
Sorry, this is just my honest opinion. Especially in metal. What is the point of putting bands into subgenres? All it does is confuse people. Some people would say that Underoath is not even close to metalcore, some people say it's screamo, who cares? As long as it is good music I'm okay with it. Subgenres are so blurred also. Most bands think they are a different subgenre then what they're fans say they are. In my opinion, their is good metal and bad metal. It's not just metal though, it happens in punk rock too. There's a different category for punk and pop-punk...wtf? And there is a category for nu metal and metal. Nu metal is metal, it is just a different kind of metal. The same for pop-punk, and emo, it is just more melodic or whiny. Subgenres honestly cause nothing more then confusion. In my opinion, rock subgenres should only go as far as: Rock, Punk Rock, Hard Rock, Metal, Heavy Metal, and Indie/Alternative.


Sorry for the rant. I just feel like expressing my opinion. What is yours?
Last edited by IcePh0enix at Sep 8, 2007,
#2
Yeah man, I hear that.

.....doooont really have a lot to offer, just that i totally agree.

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#3
I disagree entirely. Its like walking into an icecream shop and having no way of differentiating between the flavours. If all i can ask for is ice cream rather than chocolate or banana flavours, chances are im going to end up with some thing that doesnt appeal to me.

Strange analogy maybe, but its the same thing man. Same thing.
#4
Quote by SickNick!
I disagree entirely. Its like walking into an icecream shop and having no way of differentiating between the flavours. If all i can ask for is ice cream rather than chocolate or banana flavours, chances are im going to end up with some thing that doesnt appeal to me.

Strange analogy maybe, but its the same thing man. Same thing.

strange? that was pretty much what i would have said, except you put it much better together.
#5
i dont agree even though 2 things might be punk that doesnt mean they are the same even though blink 182 and the casualties and the rise against are all punk bands they are completely different and they shouldnt be classified as being the same things
#6
Quote by SickNick!
Strange analogy maybe, but its the same thing man. Same thing.


No it's not. Not even close actually. There are so many more bands then icecreams. Really, if there wasn't so much music I wouldn't even care. Having a general genre is good but it's gotten to a point where I don't even know what half of the subgenres are. Most ice cream shops have 26 flavors. There are thousands of bands.

People shouldn't judge bands on their genres either. Good music is good music.
#7
To expand on nick's analogy...For example if you like chocolate, youve got a few different kinds of chocolate, dark, white, normal, and then youve got chocolate with strawberry added in it etc. The point is, it helps you specify what you want
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#8
Quote by t3h guitar n00b
To expand on nick's analogy...For example if you like chocolate, youve got a few different kinds of chocolate, dark, white, normal, and then youve got chocolate with strawberry added in it etc. The point is, it helps you specify what you want

I understand that but it's not like there are 12 different kinds of chocolate, that's what is has become in music honestly. Also, people are way too concerned what genre of music a band is. Subgenres are way too blurred also. Ice cream is easy to understand, music is very complicated and doesn't need so much classification.
#9
Subgenres help to differentiate between specific types of music. Like if I say I like metal, that's a lot of different kinds of music, but if I say that I like thrash or death metal, then have a better idea of what I like.
If you go to the metal forum and say, 'Recommend me some good metal bands,' then they're going to ask you what kind of metal, so they know what kind of metal you like, and then they can recommend you bands that appeal to you. If you ask for metal, and you're looking for something like Napalm Death or Carcass, then you probably won't like what they give you, or you'll be given too much.
Quote by IcePh0enix
I understand that but it's not like there are 12 different kinds of chocolate, that's what is has become in music honestly. Also, people are way too concerned what genre of music a band is. Subgenres are way too blurred also. Ice cream is easy to understand, music is very complicated and doesn't need so much classification.

Actually, there are more than 12 different kinds of chocolate.
From what I've heard, people aren't too concerned with what genre a band is, but it's good to know that. And genres are not too blurred, and music being complicated is a good reason to classify it so much.
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Last edited by SOADrox429 at Sep 8, 2007,
#10
i hate how people just automatically hate a band cuz its part of a certain subgenre, but it definately helps when Im looking for a new band to listen to, I know what subgenre's I ussually like more than others, so I know what bands I should check out.
#11
Saying sub genres aren't blurred is honestly a lie. Most of the My Chemical Romance fans say they are emo, but they just consider themselves rock or punk rock. Honestly, I think if anyone decides what subgenre the band is it should be the band itself.
#12
Quote by IcePh0enix
Saying sub genres aren't blurred is honestly a lie. Most of the My Chemical Romance fans say they are emo, but they just consider themselves rock or punk rock. Honestly, I think if anyone decides what subgenre the band is it should be the band itself.

They're not emo, rock, or punk. They're pop rock.
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#13
Quote by SOADrox429
They're not emo, rock, or punk. They're pop rock.

This proves my point. People have opinions. There is no concrete subgenre for any band really.
#14
Quote by IcePh0enix
This proves my point. People have opinions. There is no concrete subgenre for any band really.

Yes, there is. Just ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about, not the people on the radio and MTV. It's not opinion.
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#15
Quote by SOADrox429
Yes, there is. Just ask someone who actually knows what they're talking about, not the people on the radio and MTV. It's not opinion.

My Chemical Romance says on there myspace that they are Rock/Metal. I think the bands opinion about themselve is more important then anybody else opinion. That's just another point of mine. Pretty much nobody in the metal forum would consider MCR a metal band, but MCR considers themself a metal band.
Last edited by IcePh0enix at Sep 9, 2007,
#16
i believe you left out Death and Black metal from the list
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#17
Quote by triple_X_maniac
i believe you left out Death and Black metal from the list

No, I would consider them heavy metal.
#18
Quote by IcePh0enix
No, I would consider them heavy metal.


well there is accually a huge difference between heavy, death, and black metal

they wouldn't be concidered subgenres
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#19
Quote by triple_X_maniac
well there is accually a huge difference between heavy, death, and black metal

they wouldn't be concidered subgenres

They are all forms of heavy metal though. And I would put them in that category if I could.
#20
Quote by IcePh0enix
They are all forms of heavy metal though. And I would put them in that category if I could.


no they're not. they are forms of metal. heavy metal is a form of metal. death metal is a way of describing a different form of metal. and black metal is the farthest thing from heavy metal next to rap.

besides, the hell would you call it then... heavier metal? heaviest metal?
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#21
Quote by triple_X_maniac
no they're not. they are forms of metal. heavy metal is a form of metal. death metal is a way of describing a different form of metal. and black metal is the farthest thing from heavy metal next to rap.

besides, the hell would you call it then... heavier metal? heaviest metal?

This made me lol. Look at it this way, metal is the main thing, heavy metal basically means harder metal. If black and death metal are more hard then heavy metal then they fall under the category of heavy metal. The same would basically go for any of the other genres I have stated. An emo song is a lot different then a traditional punk song, but it is still similar enough to fall under that category. Oh and that second to last sentence was very untrue sorry.
#22
Quote by IcePh0enix
This made me lol. Look at it this way, metal is the main thing, heavy metal basically means harder metal. If black and death metal are more hard then heavy metal then they fall under the category of heavy metal. The same would basically go for any of the other genres I have stated. An emo song is a lot different then a traditional punk song, but it is still similar enough to fall under that category. Oh and that second to last sentence was very untrue sorry.


if heavy metal is harder metal and gets its own genre, why not death and black

and emo and punk aren't worth talking about
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#23
I think metal and heavy metal are the same genre. Wikipedia agrees. Also, Alternative and Indie aren't genres, they're statuses. Also, your list of valid genres doesn't include, pop, jazz, blues, reggae, surf, electronic, and many other genres. Many bands don't fall under a single genre.

Genres would be useful if they were based on sound, but they often aren't. Emo is a good example. Nobody seems to know what emo is. It was originally emotive hardcore, (not "emotional music" as some people say) a branch of hardcore punk with more personal lyrics. It should have never existed. It's stupid. As if other hardcore punk bands were robots? Throughout the '90s, the subgenre changed drastically and became very different from the original "emocore" bands. In the early '00s, some of the bands formerly associated with the mutated genre label bacame popular. The label stuck, and the music industry marketed lots of bands as emo. Now, people consider any band with the appearance, fans, or lyrics that have become associated with it emo. What does Dashboard Confessional have to do with Rites of Spring?

I think not only that subgenres are useless, but genres also.

Edit:
Quote by IcePh0enix
My Chemical Romance says on there myspace that they are Rock/Metal. I think the bands opinion about themselve is more important then anybody else opinion. That's just another point of mine. Pretty much nobody in the metal forum would consider MCR a metal band, but MCR considers themself a metal band.


They actually consider themselves "violent pop." I don't know what's up with the metal thing.
Last edited by werty22 at Sep 9, 2007,
#24
your last sentence makes less sence than this entire thread. how would you desribe what you listen to then?

person: "What type of music do you like?"
you: "Oh, you know, that one with the guitar and the singing."

and nobody cares about dashboard confessional
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#25
Quote by werty22
I think not only that subgenres are useless, but genres also.


Well that's going a little too far imo. Without genres we basically have no way of knowing what a band remotely sounds like. Oh and Triple maniac, seriously please shut the hell up. That has nothing to do with the topic. I'm also only talking about subgenres in rock. Nothing besides that (I'm not saying I don't like anything but rock).

For the metal thing:

Metal: anything with clean singing vocals (that is metal)

Heavy Metal: anything with mostly sceaming vocals (that is metal)

edit: triple, seriously shut the hell up about your musical preference. I care about Dashboard Confessionals so the last thing you just said was a lie. If you don't like punk or any other kind of music that is fine but don't bring it to this thread.
Last edited by IcePh0enix at Sep 9, 2007,
#26
i don't think you should get offended by what someone else says. the fact that you like them is an opinion, as is mine of never meeting anyone who does and being happy about it.

and if you didn't want people to talk about something, don't post a thread about something some people will obviously have different opinions about

and it's not like i brought it, it was in the list of genres you mentioned when you posted this thread
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#27
Quote by triple_X_maniac
i don't think you should get offended by what someone else says. the fact that you like them is an opinion, as is mine of never meeting anyone who does and being happy about it.

and if you didn't want people to talk about something, don't post a thread about something some people will obviously have different opinions about

and it's not like i brought it, it was in the list of genres you mentioned when you posted this thread

This thread is not about what your favorite sub genre or genre is. And it's definetly not about wether you like MCR or Dashboard Confessional. It's about wether or not subgenres should exist in the first place. Please stay on topic or get out. I will report you next time you stay off subject.
#28
everything i've posted was mainly in reference to what you've said except maybe for that last one, sorry, but

genres are necessary
subgenres are necessary

if they weren't there it would be like calling a black, white, and asian guy the same race
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#29
Yeah I agree with the genres and subgenres being important, but I hate when bands are mislabeled. Example My chemical Romance being on the cover of Metal Edge....just wrong in so many ways.
#30
Quote by gotbass
Yeah I agree with the genres and subgenres being important, but I hate when bands are mislabeled. Example My chemical Romance being on the cover of Metal Edge....just wrong in so many ways.

Who has the right to label them? IMO it's the band itself and on their myspace they say rock/metal. Just another example of how blurry subgenres are.
#31
Quote by IcePh0enix
Who has the right to label them? IMO it's the band itself and on their myspace they say rock/metal. Just another example of how blurry subgenres are.

So Lamb of God and Job For A Cowboy calling themselves metal means they are? No, it doesn't. Because they aren't. Genres are not determined by what a band calls themselves, they're determined by what kind of music the band plays. The bands do determine their genre, just not in the way you're saying.
Subgenres in metal are probably more necessary than in any other genre. Listen to Symphony X, then Dream Theater, then listen to Pantera, then Behemoth, and finally Carcass. You can't tell me all of those bands should be in the same genre. I can't say that I like metal and be truthful about it. I dislike most power metal, and I don't listen to black metal because of my beliefs, so saying I like metal would be untrue.
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#32
Quote by SOADrox429
So Lamb of God and Job For A Cowboy calling themselves metal means they are? No, it doesn't. Because they aren't. Genres are not determined by what a band calls themselves, they're determined by what kind of music the band plays. The bands do determine their genre, just not in the way you're saying.
Subgenres in metal are probably more necessary than in any other genre. Listen to Symphony X, then Dream Theater, then listen to Pantera, then Behemoth, and finally Carcass. You can't tell me all of those bands should be in the same genre. I can't say that I like metal and be truthful about it. I dislike most power metal, and I don't listen to black metal because of my beliefs, so saying I like metal would be untrue.

But many bands fit into more then one category. To me, Job For a Cowboy sounds like (bad) hardcore trying to be death metal. Others may completely disagree with me though. It's so blurry. There really is no solid way to categorize band without somebody disagreeing with you.
Last edited by IcePh0enix at Sep 9, 2007,
#33
Quote by IcePh0enix
But many bands fit into more then one category. To me, Job For a Cowboy sounds like (bad) hardcore trying to be death metal. Others may completely disagree with me though. It's so blurry. There really is no solid way to categorize band without somebody disagreeing with you.

There isn't a solid way, and there won't ever be. If you expect anything in music to be 100%, then just don't listen to music, but subgenres are necessary. If a band fits into more than one, then that's fine. Nobody here ever said a band had to fit into one subgenre of music, they just said that subgenres are necessary to find bands that sound similar.
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#34
Quote by SOADrox429
There isn't a solid way, and there won't ever be. If you expect anything in music to be 100%, then just don't listen to music, but subgenres are necessary. If a band fits into more than one, then that's fine. Nobody here ever said a band had to fit into one subgenre of music, they just said that subgenres are necessary to find bands that sound similar.

Why are subgenres necessary? I can know what a band sounds like if somebody tells me they sound like another band. I can understand why genres are necessary, but subgenres don't seem necessary at all to me. If subgenres were never created I think the world and music would be just fine if not better.
#35
Quote by IcePh0enix
Why are subgenres necessary? I can know what a band sounds like if somebody tells me they sound like another band. I can understand why genres are necessary, but subgenres don't seem necessary at all to me. If subgenres were never created I think the world and music would be just fine if not better.

Because when you say a band is *insert subgenre*, you can say that they sound like a lot of different bands without having to list each band.
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#36
Quote by blackflag49
NO

If that happened, every ****ty pop-rock band in America would call themselves "punk", and it would suck.

People categorize music so they have a general name for the styles they like and don't like.

PS: "Pop-punk" bands like Green Day and Sum 41 need to quit kidding themselves. You can't bandwagon like that, if you're gonna play ****ty pop music, call yourselves pop.

Wow, that was just a crapload of opinion based bs sorry. Most pop punk bands call themselves pop punk because THEY ARE pop punk. It's that simple.

Also, how would you like it if somebody demanded your favorite color was different then what it really is? You wouldn't like that would you?

P.S. Pop punk is punk. It's different but at the same time it's the same. They are extremely similar too. Sum 41 and Green Day don't sound like Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson do they? Those are real pop musicians. Green Day sounds a lot more like Black Flag then Britney Spears.
Last edited by IcePh0enix at Sep 9, 2007,
#37
^ I agree.

I think the reason he doesn't like subgenres is that he doesn't understand them. I could be wrong, of course, but that seems logical to me.
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#39
Meh, I just think their are too many subgenres that sound the same now. Like metalcore, hardcore, and screamo. There are slight differences, but not enough to make new subgenres IMO.
#40
Quote by IcePh0enix
Meh, I just think their are too many subgenres that sound the same now. Like metalcore, hardcore, and screamo. There are slight differences, but not enough to make new subgenres IMO.

I know what you mean. If you like metalcore, you will most likely like modern hardcore aswell.

Still, subgenres are necessary.
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