#1
i have a fender hot rod deluxe 1x12 and i'd like to replace the speaker.
so i thought hey, why not make it a 212 ? ( i didn't buy the 212 hot rod because it was heavier but now i can replace the 12" with two lighter ones...)
so is it possible ? it's 8 ohms and 40 watts.
if it's possible, what ohmage and wattage should one speaker have ?

and ehm, do 212 only have more sound dispersion (?) and sound a little 'bigger' ?
or isn't there any sound difference noticable except for the sound dispersion (?) ?

thanks.
Last edited by The Masterplan at Sep 9, 2007,
#2
another 12" speaker won't fit. and all 12" speakers are roughly the same weight, so basicly, you won't be able to do what you want. if you really want 2 speakers though, you can build an extension cab and choose your speaker for that, then run both at the same time - im pretty sure the HRD deluxe has 2 speaker outs.

there is a little more dispersion, but you get more when you go up to half stack and then full stack. it will also feel slightly louder. but in all honesty, you don't need it - the hot rod is fine on its own - i've gigged to 5-600 people un-mic'd with one before, and only got it to about 5.
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#3
Well, yeah, if they'll fit. You want either two 4 ohm or two 16 ohm speakers to make a total impedance of 8 ohms. The speakers should both be rated for at least 20 watts.

^ Not really, there's a pretty big difference in weight between a ceramic magnet and a neodymium magnet speaker.

Why don't you make/buy a cab instead, or install two 10" speakers in the amp (if that even fits)?
Last edited by mr_hankey at Sep 9, 2007,
#4
Quote by mr_hankey
Well, yeah, if they'll fit. You want either two 4 ohm or two 16 ohm speakers to make a total impedance of 8 ohms. The speakers should both be rated for at least 20 watts.

^ Not really, there's a pretty big difference in weight between a ceramic magnet and a neodymium magnet speaker.

Why don't you make/buy a cab instead, or install two 10" speakers in the amp (if that even fits)?

i'm pretty sure they'll fit.
so either a 4 ohm or a 16 ohm would be good ? seems a bit weird
what would be best or is it completely the same ?


yeah i've seen some extremely light webers.

it's easier to have it in the combo already.
would 2 10" speakers sound exactly the same as those same speakers but 2 12" ???
#5
If you want to make them fit, the baffle should be at least 26-27 inches wide to fit another speaker. You're going to want a new baffle as well. If you really want to get creative you can put the baffle together at a slight angle or outward V to disperse sound to the sides better; try and keep this very slight, as in a max of 5 deg.

You'd probably be best off building a 1x12 extension cab or 2x12.
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#6
Quote by MESAexplorer
If you want to make them fit, the baffle should be at least 26-27 inches wide to fit another speaker. You're going to want a new baffle as well. If you really want to get creative you can put the baffle together at a slight angle or outward V to disperse sound to the sides better; try and keep this very slight, as in a max of 5 deg.

You'd probably be best off building a 1x12 extension cab or 2x12.

what is a baffle ? is is the plate where the speaker is screwed into ??
and isn't 12 inches minimum enought to fit a second speaker ????
Last edited by The Masterplan at Sep 9, 2007,
#7
Quote by The Masterplan
i'm pretty sure they'll fit.
so either a 4 ohm or a 16 ohm would be good ? seems a bit weird
what would be best or is it completely the same ?


yeah i've seen some extremely light webers.

it's easier to have it in the combo already.
would 2 10" speakers sound exactly the same as those same speakers but 2 12" ???

You need either two four ohm speakers wired in series, or two sixteens wired in parallel.

EDIT: No, the tens would sound different. Smaller speakers sound, well, smaller. Once you get into really small speakers, you get a boxy or tinny sound like an old radio. Then bigger speakers sound more full and have some more bass as you go up.
#8
Quote by The Masterplan
what is a baffle ? is is the plate where the speaker is screwed into ??
and isn't 12 inches minium enought o fir a second speaker ????


what is a baffle ? is is the plate where the speaker is screwed into ??

Yes!

and isn't 12 inches minium enought o fir a second speaker ??

Yes again! But you would want a little bit of space between them. My Carvin legacy cab has an exact 24in baffle but I would prefer the speakers to be a bit farther apart just to prevent any buzzing if the speakers to start to touch.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

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Ibanez RG2228
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#9
ok thanks guys !
any further input of someone is still appreciated of course !

still got a question though, does a 212 sound bigger compared to a 112 ?
Last edited by The Masterplan at Sep 9, 2007,
#10
Quote by The Masterplan
ok thanks guys !
any further input of someone is still appreciated of course !

still got a question though, does a 212 sound bigger compared to a 112 ?


In the same sized cabinet, no, I would say the 1x12 will sound bigger but not as punchy, if their cabs are sized for the speaker then the 2x12 will sound fuller. This is why Mesa and Marshall have 2x12 speakers in 4x12 cabs.

Keep in mind, a 2x12 will be louder, therefore you can't saturate the amp as much as you would with a 1x12.

It's a win lose situation putting it all in one amp compared to your amp and an external speaker.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

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Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
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Gibson Explorer Studio
#11
Quote by MESAexplorer
In the same sized cabinet, no, I would say the 1x12 will sound bigger but not as punchy, if their cabs are sized for the speaker then the 2x12 will sound fuller. This is why Mesa and Marshall have 2x12 speakers in 4x12 cabs.

Keep in mind, a 2x12 will be louder, therefore you can't saturate the amp as much as you would with a 1x12.

It's a win lose situation putting it all in one amp compared to your amp and an external speaker.

why would a 212 be louder

would the amp + an 112 cab sound fuller than the amp alone ?

i'm from belgium so forgive this possibly stupid question, but does that mean you win and los things with both ways (all in amp, and amp + cab)
Last edited by The Masterplan at Sep 9, 2007,
#12
Quote by The Masterplan
why would a 212 be louder

would the amp + an 112 cab sound fuller than the amp alone ?

i'm from belgium so forgive this possibly stupid question, but does that mean you win and los things with both ways (all in amp, and amp + cab)


What I meant by a 2x12 being louder than a 1x12 was is you don't add another speaker. If you do add the additional 1x12 then they would be about the same.

It's a win lose situation by putting 2x12 into one amp because 1, the amp is a bit heavier,2 the sound is coming out of one area,3 you have to modify your amp, and 4 you won't be able to control that one speaker as well.

With an external 1x12 or 2x12 you can carry it seperatly (which is easier than lugging it all at once), you can make it lower or brighter, thicker or thinner depending on cab size, you can put it on the other side of the stage, and it would be easier to make a whole new cab than cutting up your amp to fit another speaker in it.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
Last edited by MESAexplorer at Sep 9, 2007,
#13
Quote by MESAexplorer
What I meant by a 2x12 being louder than a 1x12 was is you don't add another speaker. If you do add the additional 1x12 then they would be about the same.

It's a win lose situation by putting 2x12 into one amp because 1, the amp is a bit heavier,2 the sound is coming out of one area,3 you have to modify your amp, and 4 you won't be able to control that one speaker as well.

With an external 1x12 or 2x12 you can carry it seperatly (which is easier than lugging it all at once), you can make it lower or brighter, thicker or thinner depending on cab size, you can put it on the other side of the stage, and it would be easier to make a whole new cab than cutting up your amp to fit another speaker in it.

oh ok.

you convinced me to make an extra cab
thanks for all your help !
#14
Quote by The Masterplan
yeah i know you meant that, but say we have a 212 amp with two 20 watt speakers, and that same amp with one 40 watt speaker, they would be equal, right ?

and could you please answer my other questions too ?


If you oversize the 112 cab it should sound much fuller than putting both speakers in your fender amp. You can also closeback the 112 to give it an even better tone.

Wattage is a measurement of power handling, not of loudness. 2 20watt speakers would probably sound cleaner at higher volumes than 1 40 watt speaker but if you want more breakup on the top end then I'd go with 1 40 watter.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#15
Quote by MESAexplorer
If you oversize the 112 cab it should sound much fuller than putting both speakers in your fender amp. You can also closeback the 112 to give it an even better tone.

Wattage is a measurement of power handling, not of loudness. 2 20watt speakers would probably sound cleaner at higher volumes than 1 40 watt speaker but if you want more breakup on the top end then I'd go with 1 40 watter.

ah ok thanks !

i'm gonna make an extra cab