#1
I guess I could say i've just matured musically....I've been spending all this time learning all this theory and scales an modes and playing faster..... and I've come to realize that I'm just playing notes in a scale, it has no meaning...... I realize now I have no idea how to get that.... emotion out of it. I can't come up with a melody with any... substance to it, so I slowed it down and was just trying to come up with something simple but decent sounding.


e|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
B|------1-0-----------0-----------|--------------------------------|
G|----------2-----------2-0-------|------2-0--------------0--------|
D|2---2---------0---0-------------|------------4-------------4--2--|
A|--------------------------------|3---3-----------2---2-----------|
E|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|


now, that's kinda better than what I was doing, hitting random notes in a scale, throwing in an arpeggio here and there.... but.... I have no idea what makes it feel the way it does..... is this something explainable or what?

I don't know if you know what I'm saying, but what is it that changes from slightly random notes in a scales to a song?
#2
It is a song just because it sounds like a song to you, there isn't a theory based answer. It might make it sound more song like if you add the usual elements of a song (melody, chords, bass line, rhythm).

Try singing the tune of a song you're writing, then working it out on the guitar. After this you can see what scale your melody was from, and add some chords which support it. The first idea comes from you, theory just lets you play it.
Quote by VR2005
Very good post Marmoseti, you're on the right track.



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#3
hmm, so theory hasn't really ventured into what gives music it's emotion and such? damn... is this one of those big mystery things where the answer is ~~~nobody knows~~~ damn... now I see more into how good good musicians really are....

Edit: and before someone asks.... no, I'm not on a drug trip.... I'm just dehydrated and have a good bit of nicotine in my system...... (goes to get a drink.... caffeine is always good.....)
Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Sep 11, 2007,
#4
Quote by The4thHorsemen
hmm, so theory hasn't really ventured into what gives music it's emotion and such? damn... is this one of those big mystery things where the answer is ~~~nobody knows~~~ damn... now I see more into how good good musicians really are....

Edit: and before someone asks.... no, I'm not on a drug trip.... I'm just dehydrated and have a good bit of nicotine in my system...... (goes to get a drink.... caffeine is always good.....)



I'm certain there are studies on musical psychology, and the way certain aspects of music tend to affect people, but there are so many factors to consider and probably so much out there that you can read it all and have no time to write music. Some are sort of obvious, like jarring dynamic changes, minor keys, etc, but this topic is so tremendously vast that I suggest just spending the time writing and getting your own and other peoples reactions to the music, and sort of picking up on these patterns yourself.
"I see my light come shining from the west down to the east
Any day now, any day now I shall be released"

Know any good teachers in NY, especially skilled in teaching ear training? Tell me
#5
Well, scales... Personally, I'm into chord tones. And why? I get a lot more melody, and a lot more freedom. I just kind of know where to find notes for a certain feel, and I always come home. Try them!
"The end result - the music - is all that counts"
#6
Learn your modes, but not just the notes. Learn how to construct chords using them. Learn about using the harmonic and melodic minor and their modes, to get passing chords and stuff.
#7
hmm, so theory hasn't really ventured into what gives music it's emotion and such? damn... is this one of those big mystery things where the answer is ~~~nobody knows~~~ damn... now I see more into how good good musicians really are....


There is a whole lot more to Music Theory than just chord/scale theory. I suggest you pick up an edition of "Tonal Harmony," as that covers many aspects of voice leading and simple melody writing "rules" like contour and focal points etc. Even still, outside of specifically writing in the 4 part choral style, you can study music and find out "why" something works. For example you could take a some bunch of popular melodies and look for harmonic patterns, one simple one that my teacher pointed out to me (and he's even written a whole book on the subject called "Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony") is that almost all melodies revolve around the 3 tones of a basic triad, and all other tones can be considered just embelishments.

But anyways my point is that musical analysis has gone quite a long way and that you probably haven't hit even the tip of the iceberg yet.

EDIT --> I forgot to mention why the chordal melody works so well. It has much to do with the physics of sound and naturally occuring overtones.
Last edited by Erc at Sep 11, 2007,
#8
well damn.... are there any online lessons or whatever for stuff like that? I don't really wanta hunt down and buy a book...
#9
eh, Erc, if it's the same "Tonal Harmony" that I used I wouldn't particularly recommend it.
"I see my light come shining from the west down to the east
Any day now, any day now I shall be released"

Know any good teachers in NY, especially skilled in teaching ear training? Tell me
#10
I realize now I have no idea how to get that.... emotion out of it


Put everything you've got into every note.

Theory, scales, modes...all fine but at the end of the day you're still just playing scales on automatic pilot. That's why you've never seen me recommend theory. Sure, people need to understand the way chords interact and form a pattern that you can put together and make into a song, but theory can't teach you the one most important thing.

Put everything you've got into every note.

I don't think about the theory of how a song is put together, don't have the slightest clue what "scales" I play, and couldn't care less. I know the feel of a song, I know if a guy tells me it's in A then I can expect A, D and E and the occasional oddball G or C thrown in. That's all I need to "know", from there I have to "feel".

I played my way through 3 years of fill in gigs with that outlook. As long as it won't have any oddball chord changes, I can play anything. I'd get onstage with a band I just met an hour ago, and every time they called a song I'd never heard or heard of I'd tell them what key is it in, I can play it. And I did. Most of them tried to hire me full time after one set. I was having too much fun playing under pressure...I've seen people look at me like I'm crazy, then after the song refuse to believe I'd never even heard of it.

But your question is one of the most difficult to answer...how do you get that emotion into it...that feeling...only thing I can come up with is what I already posted, put everything you got into every note. You want your soul coming out of the speakers. Theory can't teach you that, scales have nothing to do with it, modes don't either. You have to feel that. Then get it into your instrument.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#11
I think a large thing that most electric guitar players forgot (or any musician, since they just dont understand music that well) is dynamics and tone colour. Melody is more than just notes. You have to play with the melody to get it to play back. A good typical rule - Play the tense/dissonant parts loud, and the consonant parts quietly. Make sure you experiment with playing tasto (picking nearer to the next for a warm sound, usually about 12 frets up is a good spot to pick) and ponticello (playing near the bridge for the metallic sound)
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