#1
So I currently play on my Randall G75D with a Jackson JS30Ke guitar, but I feel like it's time to freshen up the gear list a little (what with the prospect of getting out and playing some gigs with my band and all), but as so many others before me I can't help but get a bit lost among all the amplifiers and guitars out there.

I figure I better get a new amp first and worry about the axe later, so that's what this thread's all about: I need a new, bigger, louder, meaner amplifier. We play metal in the vein of Machine Head, Pantera and Slayer and I need gear that can give me a dark, HEAVY, mean tone. I also need at least average cleans, nothing fancy but listenable.

I am currently thinking of a Valveking or Windsor head or a tube Randall amp. I think my tone's alright at the moment, but I need something louder and with a bit more bite.
I'd love a 5150, but my budget don't allow it (things are EXPENSIVE here in Sweden; such an amp would cost way more than $1000 over here).
#2
If your willing to go used, it opens up alot more options...

And the Windsor and the Valveking wont really do Heavy well without an OD. Not sure about the valveking though. More 80's metal I think.
#4
Quote by Renka
I'd love a 5150, but my budget don't allow it (things are EXPENSIVE here in Sweden; such an amp would cost way more than $1000 over here).


Lol, "way more" than $1000.00 in Sweden for a new 5150. I live in Canada and I believe they are substanially more than that... about 4 times more after taxes and such.

Sorry, don't mean to be a prick. And I'm sorry what I've said has nothing to do with helping out you but I just felt I should say, "Yes, a new 5150III is more than a 1000, WAY MORE..."
#6
I look on second hand websites fairly frequently and I still haven't found a single amp I'd like (and most gear costs almost as much used as it does new).

My budget is "not any more expensive than those examples" really.
As I said earlier, most amps cost so much more over here a budget wouldn't tell you much anyway I'm afaid.

And I need something that does heavy, if those amps can't do that then I guess I need other recomendations.
#7
get a Randall RH150G3 or the RH300G3 for more power. \

oh and btw. Randall is way better than peavey for metal stuff... by far.
#8
my friend got the RH150G3 for 900$ CDN :O
thats Head, Cab and Footswitch.
#9
and for your guitar, just slap an EMG 81 in the bridge and you'll be good.
i have the JS30RR and its sounds so much better with the EMG and its probably the best line of guitars for under 500$
#10
ol, "way more" than $1000.00 in Sweden for a new 5150. I live in Canada and I believe they are substanially more than that... about 4 times more after taxes and such.

Sorry, don't mean to be a prick. And I'm sorry what I've said has nothing to do with helping out you but I just felt I should say, "Yes, a new 5150III is more than a 1000, WAY MORE..."

$4,000? You can get a CAR for that kind of money!
[http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...ules?sku=481125

check this, and you can use it over your amp, so no need for a cab

Do you think a 150 or 300 watt SS head would be more powerful than that?
get a Randall RH150G3 or the RH300G3 for more power. \

oh and btw. Randall is way better than peavey for metal stuff... by far.

Well, I DO like my current amp, only it's just not *enough*.

Would you figure 300 Watts of SS is enough for gigging?

EDIT: Oh, and as I am the only guitarist I kinda need dual channels.
#11
300 Watts is more than enough. 150 is enough too. i have 120 watts and is perfect for jamming with a band. just run a bit through the house PA if your gigging tho, so you dont have to push your amp volume too much.
#12
Quote by RX120D
300 Watts is more than enough. 150 is enough too. i have 120 watts and is perfect for jamming with a band. just run a bit through the house PA if your gigging tho, so you dont have to push your amp volume too much.

Hm, a 300 would be a bit of a stretch, so if a 150 is enough that's good news indeed.
Still, this is a really important decision, so I'd rather be on the safe side with this one.
#13
my friend bought the RH150G3 about 3 months ago. its a beast. it looks and sounds sweet. go check it out at the randall site or something. are you looking for good head distortion? or will you be running a OD?
#14
Quote by RX120D
my friend bought the RH150G3 about 3 months ago. its a beast. it looks and sounds sweet. go check it out at the randall site or something. are you looking for good head distortion? or will you be running a OD?

I'm a "the simpler the better" kinda guy. As my current amp even had effects built in, I don't own a single pedal at the moment.

Still, if a pedal would help that wouldn't be an issue (unless it's a REALLY expensive pedal, but you know...). As long as it's afordable, and it helps give me a mean ass tone, I'm all for it.
#15
Quote by RX120D
get a Randall RH150G3 or the RH300G3 for more power. \

oh and btw. Randall is way better than peavey for metal stuff... by far.


I'm sorry, but there's no way that Randall will sound better than either of those Peaveys. I'd also MUCH rather have a Peavey than a Randall for Metal, I don't know where you're coming from there.

As far as an amp goes, I'd suggest the Windsor or Valveking that you said first, the Valveking can get decently heavy by itself and then just buy an OD pedal to get a move heavier sound.

I also don't know why you're being suggested 150 watt and 300 watt amps when that's extremely loud, even if it's solid state. A 30 watt tube amp is plently enough to gig with, most places should have a PA even if it's not, but there's no way you need that much power.

Go for a combo as well.

Also, RX120D, stop double and triple posting, there's an edit button for a reason...
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#16
Ah, so there are Peavey supporters too, eh?

All I know is my 75 Watt amp isn't enough, and 150 is kind of the next step with Randall I think.
Also, I can't stress the heavy part enough. I want a "Oh my God, that riff felt like he punched me in the face!" kinda tone, but pedals aren't really an issue.

The Peavey amps are cheaper with a margin, so that's good, but are they heavy enough?
#17
Maybe check out a Randall RG50TC? (Or RH50T if you're looking for the Head version)

50 Watts tube, Good Cleans, Good Distortion. I've had the combo for a while and I'm very happy with it, I can get some great metal tones with it. It's a little more expensive than the Valve King or Windsor, but it's probably aimed more at metal (though it can still get some great lighter tones).

http://www.thomann.de/se/randall_rg50_tc.htm

http://www.thomann.de/se/randall_rh50t_head_gitarrentopteil.htm

EDIT: I have a feeling it's going to be hard to find an amp with the sort of heaviness you're looking for in this kinda price range, imo the Randall would be your best yet. I haven't tried the RH150 or 300, It might be worth looking at them for a more bone crushing sound, though I'd still say you would be better off going tube. Maybe look for some videos on youtube to get an idea of how they sound?

EDIT 2: It also might be worth looking at some new pickups. Some good, tonefull, high output pickups can really help towards a great metal tone.
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Last edited by GNR4EVER at Sep 12, 2007,
#18
Quote by Renka
Ah, so there are Peavey supporters too, eh?

All I know is my 75 Watt amp isn't enough, and 150 is kind of the next step with Randall I think.
Also, I can't stress the heavy part enough. I want a "Oh my God, that riff felt like he punched me in the face!" kinda tone, but pedals aren't really an issue.

The Peavey amps are cheaper with a margin, so that's good, but are they heavy enough?


A 50 watt tube amp is 2.5-3 times louder than a 50 watt solid state amp. My 5150 combo is 60 watts and I've never had to turn it up past 4 or 5 for a gig.

The Valveking can actually get decently heavy, despite popular opinion, but you'll probably want to add a Tubescreamer or Maxon OD808, etc to it to get more gain out of it. I can't really comment on the Windsor though as I haven't played one.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#19
I own a Valveking 50 watt combo and have played a Windsor. The Windsor has better (more) onboard distortion but it is only a one-channel amp. The VK is very versatile but I usually don't recommend it for modern metal. It has more than enough distortion for me (classic rock/blues.) Many metal players who own one say it does metal with a good distortion pedal. Subjectively about 2/3 of metal players who own a VK are satisfied. The other 1/3 hate it. I feel that for high gain metal a speaker upgrade would help a lot. Especially for you I think you should try it out before buying. As hard to get and expensive amps are for you be very certain of your purchase. If it works out you could upgrade the speaker later. I hate to see you go to solid state. I am not a tube snob (check my sig) but tubes are much louder per watt and sound much better. Best of luck.
#20
yeah everyone says that a VK sounds much better with a speaker upgrade
Quote by Useful_Idiot16
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Gear:
Guitars
ESP LTD Viper 400
Silvertone SS11 strat copy (possibly modding in future)
Alvarez AD70S acoustic

Amp
Roland Cube 60
#21
OK, so a Valveking combo and a Tubescreamer pedal? I should be able to finance such a purchase, thanks for the help.

Anyway, the different Valveking models? A whole lot different or the same thing really?

Oh, and I'll do my best to try everything out. Living in this town though... Let's just say they don't take kind to that kind of people here.
#22
Quote by Renka
OK, so a Valveking combo and a Tubescreamer pedal? I should be able to finance such a purchase, thanks for the help.

Anyway, the different Valveking models? A whole lot different or the same thing really?

Oh, and I'll do my best to try everything out. Living in this town though... Let's just say they don't take kind to that kind of people here.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive they come in a 1x12 combo, 2x12 combo and the head version.

Really the only difference between the combos is the 2x12 will sound a bit louder because the two speakers in it will be pushing more air, thus it will sound louder to your ears. Cons - It's probably really heavy, I'd go with the 1x12 if you're worried about that.

Head... well I believe it's twice the wattage of the combo, but I could be wrong. 120 watts tube is extremely loud and you don't need that much, ever.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#23
Quote by GNR4EVER
Maybe check out a Randall RG50TC? (Or RH50T if you're looking for the Head version)

50 Watts tube, Good Cleans, Good Distortion. I've had the combo for a while and I'm very happy with it, I can get some great metal tones with it. It's a little more expensive than the Valve King or Windsor, but it's probably aimed more at metal (though it can still get some great lighter tones).

http://www.thomann.de/se/randall_rg50_tc.htm

http://www.thomann.de/se/randall_rh50t_head_gitarrentopteil.htm

EDIT: I have a feeling it's going to be hard to find an amp with the sort of heaviness you're looking for in this kinda price range, imo the Randall would be your best yet. I haven't tried the RH150 or 300, It might be worth looking at them for a more bone crushing sound, though I'd still say you would be better off going tube. Maybe look for some videos on youtube to get an idea of how they sound?

EDIT 2: It also might be worth looking at some new pickups. Some good, tonefull, high output pickups can really help towards a great metal tone.

+1

what ever you do, don't get a SS randall, ive heard them all except for the RH300 and they all sucked, not only tone-wise but the build quality was also very poor
#24
Quote by MatrixClaw
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive they come in a 1x12 combo, 2x12 combo and the head version.

Really the only difference between the combos is the 2x12 will sound a bit louder because the two speakers in it will be pushing more air, thus it will sound louder to your ears. Cons - It's probably really heavy, I'd go with the 1x12 if you're worried about that.

Head... well I believe it's twice the wattage of the combo, but I could be wrong. 120 watts tube is extremely loud and you don't need that much, ever.

I believe you are correct. The weight really isn't a problem, but as you can guess money is. Well, I guess I'll need to hear the difference in volume myself before I make up my mind, but 50 Watts seems enough by your descriptions.

Thanks a lot.
+1

what ever you do, don't get a SS randall, ive heard them all except for the RH300 and they all sucked, not only tone-wise but the build quality was also very poor

Well, I wouldn't say I dislike my Randall per se, but I guess I AM looking for something a bit... Grander. Right now I am leaning towards the Peavey, but I guess I might check out a 50 Watt tube head if I ever get the chance (which I wouldn' count on. Stupid small town).

Now for one last question; pickups. I've heard a lot of people make claims that EMG's and Randall amps don't mix, how about the Valveking? I am currently using a Bill Lawrence L500 passive pup in the bridge position, would you reccomend keeping this setting or should I make the change to EMG's?
#25
The EMG's will sound much better on a tube amp. For the Randall the EMG's may sound a little flat. The VK 112 has a resonance switch. The 212 and the head have resonance knobs that you can adjust in increments getting a little more flexibility. The head (and maybe the 212 I think) also have a presence knob which the 112 does not. I have been told that the VK head has a little more distortion but its 100 watts, which means more clean headroom and you will have to crank it higher to get power tube distortion as opposed to the 50 watt 112 combo.
#26
Go with randall RH50T its pretty killer...had it for a few days. it has might metal tones!

EDIT: If you can afford. The sucky thing bout valveking combos is that peavey doesnt make the best speakers. Thats why everyone prefers head(not everyone..)
Guitars:
-Schecter C-7 Hellraiser
-Ibanez MTM2
Amplifiers and Cabinets:
-Peavey StudioPro
-Randall RH50T Head
-Behringer 4x12 cab
Pedals:
-Ibanez WD-7 Wah
-Boss SD-1
-MXR 10 Band Equalizer

7-String guitars are badass!
Last edited by phenom1991 at Sep 13, 2007,
#27
Peavey ValveKing(R) amps feature a patented, variable Class A-A/B control called Texture(TM), which allows sweepable selection between Class A and Class A/B power structures, as well as any combination of the two. With this feature, guitarists can coax virtually any tone from this tweaked-out amplifier. The amp's preamp and power sections use 12AX7 and 6L6GC tubes, respectively, and drive specially voiced 12" ValveKing(R) loudspeakers (112 and 212 versions only). Additional standard features include two footswitchable channels with independent, three-band EQ and volume, plus a footswitchable gain/volume boost on the lead channel to provide extra volume for solos. ValveKing(R) amps also feature global resonance, presence and reverb controls, a buffered effects loop and dual speaker jacks in parallel (head and 212 only).


Valveking 112 is 50 Watt
Valvking 212 and head are 100 Watt.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
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#28
VK 2x12 and possibly some celestions. Or a cab and a decent Marshall cab such as the 800/900 1960s
#29
So what I want is a Valveking Head with a Marshall cab and a Tubescreamer pedal? And a guitar with EMGs with that?
#30
^^If you are going for a MG cab then just dont. i jsut think a radnall RH50T rocks. Great overdrive/distortion and damn good clean channel!
Guitars:
-Schecter C-7 Hellraiser
-Ibanez MTM2
Amplifiers and Cabinets:
-Peavey StudioPro
-Randall RH50T Head
-Behringer 4x12 cab
Pedals:
-Ibanez WD-7 Wah
-Boss SD-1
-MXR 10 Band Equalizer

7-String guitars are badass!
#31
Quote by phenom1991
^^If you are going for a MG cab then just dont. i jsut think a radnall RH50T rocks. Great overdrive/distortion and damn good clean channel!

I was thinking of a Marshall AVT112 or AVT412A actually.

Right now it feels like I'm either going for previously mentioned setup (Valveking Head, an AVT112/AVT412 and a Tubescreamer) or a Randall RH50T with a Randall cab. The less options I'm down to the better.

Thanks a lot for the help guys.
#32
Honestly, I don't really see the point in upgrading your pickups from the ones you have already. Pickups barely change your tone, it's more of a subtle change. I think you should get the amp first then decide whether or not you should change the pickups, either that, or spend more on the amp and just not even consider getting new pickups at all.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#33
Quote by MatrixClaw
Honestly, I don't really see the point in upgrading your pickups from the ones you have already. Pickups barely change your tone, it's more of a subtle change. I think you should get the amp first then decide whether or not you should change the pickups, either that, or spend more on the amp and just not even consider getting new pickups at all.

That is the plan. After I get all the other gear I need my dad and I will build a guitar from scratch (it's more of a hobby project than anything, really). I just like to plan ahead.
#34
Quote by Renka
That is the plan. After I get all the other gear I need my dad and I will build a guitar from scratch (it's more of a hobby project than anything, really). I just like to plan ahead.


Ah, alright cool. Yeah, I have a project guitar right now as well but it's too hot here to sand the body down so I haven't been able to finish it
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#35
Quote by Renka
I was thinking of a Marshall AVT112 or AVT412A actually.

Right now it feels like I'm either going for previously mentioned setup (Valveking Head, an AVT112/AVT412 and a Tubescreamer) or a Randall RH50T with a Randall cab. The less options I'm down to the better.

Thanks a lot for the help guys.


Both very good choices...i woudnt buy a AVT but they might be better than MG cabs anyway.p well ill tell you this...the VK head is so damn powerful it will crush your nuts and head into a tiny package...it has a bit too much IMO. You might have hard time hitting a sweet spot. I woud like one nonetheless but i got a randall RH50T coz i figured a 50 watt head woud be pretty good instead of 100 w. Both are sweet amps so i cant really tell you wich is better.
Guitars:
-Schecter C-7 Hellraiser
-Ibanez MTM2
Amplifiers and Cabinets:
-Peavey StudioPro
-Randall RH50T Head
-Behringer 4x12 cab
Pedals:
-Ibanez WD-7 Wah
-Boss SD-1
-MXR 10 Band Equalizer

7-String guitars are badass!
#36
Quote by uldhppi
I own a Valveking 50 watt combo and have played a Windsor. The Windsor has better (more) onboard distortion but it is only a one-channel amp. The VK is very versatile but I usually don't recommend it for modern metal. It has more than enough distortion for me (classic rock/blues.) Many metal players who own one say it does metal with a good distortion pedal. Subjectively about 2/3 of metal players who own a VK are satisfied. The other 1/3 hate it. I feel that for high gain metal a speaker upgrade would help a lot. Especially for you I think you should try it out before buying. As hard to get and expensive amps are for you be very certain of your purchase. If it works out you could upgrade the speaker later. I hate to see you go to solid state. I am not a tube snob (check my sig) but tubes are much louder per watt and sound much better. Best of luck.


agreed.

my take:

all-round versatility, but possibly not the best choice if you ONLY play metal: valveking.

best choice for distortion, especially if you like the 80's/hot-rodded marshall style of distortion. And don't need good (if indeed any ) cleans: windsor.

Best cleans, and most modern-sounding distortion, but not much in-between cleans and all-out modern metal: randall rg50tc.

i haven't tried those ss randalls- they're doubtless worth a try, at least.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#37
Quote by Dave_Mc
agreed.

my take:

all-round versatility, but possibly not the best choice if you ONLY play metal: valveking.

best choice for distortion, especially if you like the 80's/hot-rodded marshall style of distortion. And don't need good (if indeed any ) cleans: windsor.

Best cleans, and most modern-sounding distortion, but not much in-between cleans and all-out modern metal: randall rg50tc.

i haven't tried those ss randalls- they're doubtless worth a try, at least.

That's the thing. I need decent cleans and evil ass distortion, but nothing in between.

Sounds like I maybe should stick with Randall, then?

Of course, I'll try out as many amps as I can before I make any purchases, but I like to plan ahead (and narrow down the possible candidates as much as possible).

And one last thing. With the Randall, would I need an overdrive pedal?
I've heard that high output passive pickups go very well with them too.
#38
probably not (od pedal) though obviously you'd need to try it to make up your own mind.

Yeah, the randall sounds like the one, but as you rightly said, you should try them all if at all possible, just in case you prefer the tone of one of the others, for example.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?