#1
how come the GK 800RB is always referred to as this massive, beastly, stadium-rattling head when it's only a "little" 400watt solid-state? It's got some beef, but it's not THAT big. I know Duff McKagan used one for all his GnR work, how much was he relying on the PA to compete with Slash, etc. Also, I know the guy from Grand Funk used one, and they're referred to as the "world's loudest band."

Now, in my band, my one guitarist uses a Mesa Triple Recifier (150watts all tube) with a Peavey 4x12, and the other uses a Randall T2 (300watts hybrid) with a custom 4x12. Onstage, I'm pumping out more wattage than both of them combined using my Ampeg SVT-3PRO and a borrowed SVT 8x10 cab, and yet my stage volume is pretty low in comparison.

So, what's your opinion of the 800RB, volume wise? I know they sound fantastic, but what about the volume thing? how much wattage is required to compete onstage with gobs of guitars? Thanks!
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
Last edited by mountaindew88 at Sep 14, 2007,
#2
"Little" 400 watt??

400watt should be fine. Duff doesn't use one anymore though. He has the 2001RB

Flea had one as well, they should be more than suitable
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Quote by Teh Traineez0rz
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Did you buy some intelligence afterwards??
#3
Well, let's not forget, Flea uses GK, so their claims of stadium rattling are a bit overstated, much like Flea.

Anyway, the rule of thumb is you need 4 times the wattage of your guitar player in order to compete. With 2 guitars, you definitely need 4 times. I know there's some people that will say 'omg mah behrigner amp is 200w and its gud with mah gitarists 100w amp so all you need is 2x wattage fitz is idiot,' but that's what you need. The exception is a 300W tube amp like an Ampeg SVT2 can throw down with a 100W tube amp. You might need to up the gain if your guitar player does. But, in conclusion, you need to quadruple their wattage.

When I saw Velvet play a small club, Duff had at least 2 GK stacks. You could hear him well enough, but I was in the front row 3 feet away from Slash, so let's just say he wasn't the loudest thing from my vantage point.

Tomorrow I'm playing an outdoor 'festival' gig and I'm using a 425W Genz Benz amp driving a 610 and my guitar player is using a 100W all-tube Genz Benz half-stack. I'll tell you exactly how they match up (assuming some jabroni stagehand doesn't turn me down again).
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#4
well, because it's got a tube-driven power amp and an extra 50 watts of meat, wouldn't my SVT-3PRO be louder than the 800RB as far a maximum output is concerned? or would the difference be negligible?
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#5
Tube-driven PRE amps (like the SVT4PRO has) do add a bit of volume to the tone, and there's no way around it, the SVT is louder than the GK. Just make sure that you're using a proper 4ohm cab. This may sound dumb, but SVT 810's are 'stereo-capable' cabinets, meaning you can use the 810 as if it were 2 separate 410's. Make sure you're getting the full 4ohms from the cabinet.

But, long story short, the only thing GK has on Ampeg is Flea... so they have nothing . But seriously, there's no reason to have a GK800rb over a SVT3PRO unless you plan on running it in stereo.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#6
gotcha.......yeah, I think that was the big problem at the show. I've never used that cabinet before, and I only ran 1 speaker cable to it................ so yeah, I was only pumping what, 280 watts. So I get the dumb-shhit prize for the day!

The SVT stays. I don't know why I keep doubting Ampeg's fantastic-ness.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#7
I have read things about the SVT-3 about it running at slightly lower volume than the rated 450 watts, I also read that you have to do something with the Graphic EQ to get the absolute most out of the amp, I believe it said to turn the farthest right switch/lever thingy ALL the way up. That might help you out a bit.
#8
Quote by thefitz
Well, let's not forget, Flea uses GK, so their claims of stadium rattling are a bit overstated, much like Flea.

Anyway, the rule of thumb is you need 4 times the wattage of your guitar player in order to compete. With 2 guitars, you definitely need 4 times. I know there's some people that will say 'omg mah behrigner amp is 200w and its gud with mah gitarists 100w amp so all you need is 2x wattage fitz is idiot,' but that's what you need. The exception is a 300W tube amp like an Ampeg SVT2 can throw down with a 100W tube amp. You might need to up the gain if your guitar player does. But, in conclusion, you need to quadruple their wattage.

When I saw Velvet play a small club, Duff had at least 2 GK stacks. You could hear him well enough, but I was in the front row 3 feet away from Slash, so let's just say he wasn't the loudest thing from my vantage point.

Tomorrow I'm playing an outdoor 'festival' gig and I'm using a 425W Genz Benz amp driving a 610 and my guitar player is using a 100W all-tube Genz Benz half-stack. I'll tell you exactly how they match up (assuming some jabroni stagehand doesn't turn me down again).


Once you start regular gigging you will find that this 4 times wattage thing is a massive misconception. Nearly all the venues you play at will have a front of house that everything goes in to. The volume on stage is just for your own monitoring in most cases. I have been regularly gigging with the hartke Ha250 head and a 410 cab. I have only been pushing 250 watts through a 400 watt cabinet and i have never needed to turn my volume past 3. Basically the only exception to this rule is playing a large outdoor gig where the amps are not fed into the front of house but that my friend is an extremely rare occcasion.
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#9
one must also remember that wattage is not everything... speaker sensitivity is what really matters. you can have a 1kw head running into a 60db/1w@1m and it will be quieter than a 400 watt head running into a wonderful eden cab, which usually are in the neighborhood of 104db/1w@1m. in short: an upgraded cab can also increase volume just as easily as a more powerful head.
i thought i had magic fingers once, and had uncovered the fountain of love.

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#10
ok what you should do is buy a power amp get a 1000watt power amp (should be able to get a good used one for between $200-$300) use youre SVT3 as a preamp and run the power amp into the 810.

if for some reason you still need more volume you can run the SVT3 pro's power amp into another cab. you should NOT have to buy another head to increase volume if you already have a head/peramp/whatever that has a tone they are happy with. just buy another power amp. if you have a Ampeg8x10 get a power amp that can fill it's capacity.

i run 1100W into mine and althogh i try not to crank it all the way up often, when i do i have no problems.


you say you barrow the 8x10 what is the cab you have?
ESP B-405,Fender American Jazz Bass(EMG J active pups and LEO QUAN BADASS II ) squire P bass(EMG P active Pups)),
SansAmp Bass driver DI
Ampeg SvP PRO Tube Preamp
QSC2450 Power amp
Furman PL8
FINALLY-Ampeg SVT 810E
#11
Major, major update to my situation. I sold my 3-Pro this morning for $450, and put the money down on a new mismarked 6-Pro. It's probably the last amp I'll ever buy!

Now I just need to wrangle some cabinets!
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
Last edited by mountaindew88 at Sep 15, 2007,
#12
Quote by mountaindew88
Major, major update to my situation. I sold my 3-Pro this morning for $450, and put the money down on a used 2004 6-Pro in mint condition. It's probably the last amp I'll ever buy!

Now I just need to wrangle some cabinets!

dude! that is one awsome amp! 1100watts!
http://www.ampeg.com/products/pro/svt6pro/index.html
maybe two SVT 810's. good job!
#13
Gracias! Easily the most impulsive thing I've done this year. A question about it: if it's a solid-state power-amp, how come it's got 4 tubes in the power section? more volume?
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#14
it doesent ...its still part of the preamp 12AX7/AU7 are preamp tubes. i think it has seperate tubes for its distortion channel.
ESP B-405,Fender American Jazz Bass(EMG J active pups and LEO QUAN BADASS II ) squire P bass(EMG P active Pups)),
SansAmp Bass driver DI
Ampeg SvP PRO Tube Preamp
QSC2450 Power amp
Furman PL8
FINALLY-Ampeg SVT 810E
#15
it doesn't have a distortion channel. It just says its got two 12AX7's in the preamp, and two 12AX7's and one 12AU7 in the driver section.

oh yeah, and the cabs I borrow are an Ampeg SVT 8x10 and 6x10. That guy uses an Eden World Tour and and Ampeg SVT Classic. He's a terrible bassist but his band's signed to a major label, they tour the country all the time, so more power to him. He's actually only been playing bass for a year, he just happens to be the band's best friend and they convinced him to join. It's metalcore, so all he does is goofy rhythms on the dropped-to-C string of his Spector Legend.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
Last edited by mountaindew88 at Sep 15, 2007,
#16
Quote by mountaindew88
it doesn't have a distortion channel. It just says its got two 12AX7's in the preamp, and two 12AX7's and one 12AU7 in the driver section.
:


Maybe the other tubes permanantly color the sound and you can't alter them with the voltage/gain, whetever controlls in the preamp, but I mean those aren't power type tubes they are preamp tubes so I don't know how they could be part of the power amp... maybe the voltage thing on the 6 (doesn't it have a voltage control?) controls these tubes like a second stage of preamp, but ampeg just chooses not to call it a second preamp....

I dunno.
#17
as far as sound goes, its one of the best souding cabs i have ever heard... but power-wise, only 300W... it will power up an Ampeg 810SVT cabinet with ease, it just wont push her to the max....

im gonna buy a 1001RB soon now...... i definitly wont have any "wattage power problems" with it.... 700 freakin LOUD WATTS.... about the same price as a 800RB... plus, its one of the best sounding bass heads ive ever heard...
Last edited by Divine Comedy at Sep 16, 2007,
#18
ha yeah, my other option when getting the 6-PRO was a used, older 2000RB for the same price. It didn't take me too long to decide.

The thing I liked most about the 6-PRO was the fact that it could replicate the general beastliness of the 4-PRO and 2-PRO, but it also had a more refined, "sophisticated" side that could be dialed in.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
Last edited by mountaindew88 at Sep 20, 2007,
#20
Just so you know, those 4x12's your guitarists use will sound louder than your 8x10 because you're standing in front of it. Higher guitar pitches sound really loud right in front of the amp and they sound similar to people in the audience. Bass however, gets bassier the further away you are from the speakers. Keep this in mind: Don't try to be heard over the guitars, try to be heard under the guitars.
#21
Just to follow up on a post from before, in fact, I didn't use the 425W 610 rig. I used a 350 212 rig against a 100W tube half-stack. Granted, I could be heard just as well as the guitar, even though my amp was just under the 4x the wattage rule of thumb. However, I was giving the amp a push and was a wee bit grindy (very slightly). Still, I could definitely see the advantage of more headroom. I might have been able to dial out some grime using the volume/gain controls, but once again, headroom is key.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#22
Quote by Divine Comedy
i think you just played a bad 2001RB, mate....


more than likely. I always thought GK's were famous for not breaking up when you make 'em loud. But yeah, it looked to be a bit distressed anyway.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#23
Quote by thefitz
Just to follow up on a post from before, in fact, I didn't use the 425W 610 rig. I used a 350 212 rig against a 100W tube half-stack. Granted, I could be heard just as well as the guitar, even though my amp was just under the 4x the wattage rule of thumb. However, I was giving the amp a push and was a wee bit grindy (very slightly). Still, I could definitely see the advantage of more headroom. I might have been able to dial out some grime using the volume/gain controls, but once again, headroom is key.

you must have a really good head and cabs, to push it and only sounding a little grindy... are you using a 5 stringer?


Quote by DoctrDrew116
Just so you know, those 4x12's your guitarists use will sound louder than your 8x10 because you're standing in front of it. Higher guitar pitches sound really loud right in front of the amp and they sound similar to people in the audience. Bass however, gets bassier the further away you are from the speakers. Keep this in mind: Don't try to be heard over the guitars, try to be heard under the guitars.

true! thats why my sounds is always dialed in as bright as possible...
#24
Quote by Divine Comedy
you must have a really good head and cabs, to push it and only sounding a little grindy... are you using a 5 stringer?

Yep, with an active 18V power supply. Genz Benz NEO-PAK 3.5. I had it set up similar to my clean tone of my 250W Bassman, but pushed a little further.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#25
Quote by thefitz
Yep, with an active 18V power supply. Genz Benz NEO-PAK 3.5. I had it set up similar to my clean tone of my 250W Bassman, but pushed a little further.


yeah, its cool..... you should totally consider getting a 1x18 cab... those low frequencies would really help you, consider you have a 5 string... may sound like it doesnt do much difference, but its really really different...
#26
Quote by Divine Comedy
yeah, its cool..... you should totally consider getting a 1x18 cab... those low frequencies would really help you, consider you have a 5 string... may sound like it doesnt do much difference, but its really really different...

Yeah, I'm currently considering an SWR SM-900 running in stereo with Hartke 118 and 410 pro cabs.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#27
that is awesome... i really like SWR, especially for studio work...

but right now, im a GK boy..... i think im gonna buy either a 1001RB or a 700RB...

would only pick, over the GKs, an ampeg stack of the 70's.... or, of course Sunn amp.... best things i have ever heard.... so freakin expensive (sighs)