#1
I have a problem understanding keys on some Guns and Roses song.. Don't Cry and November Rain are Obviously in D minor... but songs like SCOM... Theorically its suppose to be on E minor with the D raise some times... but the song has a very strong D tone... it sounds as i it were in Dmayor/Bminor, likewise in Fall to Pieces from Velvet Revolver... its clearly form a theorical viewpoint in Gmayor/Eminor but it sound very D-ish and in the prechorus it makes use of the Amaj triad without clashing with the tonality... Paradise city is an other example where the key clearly appears to be in Gmayor but uses the F natural freely without producing much dissonace with it. Can someone help me with this...
#4
Well, SCOM has a tonal center of D major for the first part. It has the same chords as G major, but it sounds to me like it resolves to D, so I'd say the main progression is I VII IV I (D C G D). The guitar solo/outro is pretty clearly in Em.

Paradise City, another example of using the VII (when I say VII, I mean a major triad based on the flatted seventh degree of the scale). In our case, F is the VII compared to the G. Using the VII with a major tonal center is pretty common in rock music.


With Fall to Pieces, I still see this as a piece centered around D, using a very similar progression to Sweet Child of Mine (I VII IV, or D C G). The A makes sense, therefore, because it's the V compared to D, and resolves very well to it. (Actually, Sweet Child of Mine made use of the A in this way too.... hmm )
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#5
Quote by psychodelia
Well, SCOM has a tonal center of D major for the first part. It has the same chords as G major, but it sounds to me like it resolves to D, so I'd say the main progression is I VII IV I (D C G D). The guitar solo/outro is pretty clearly in Em.

Paradise City, another example of using the VII (when I say VII, I mean a major triad based on the flatted seventh degree of the scale). In our case, F is the VII compared to the G. Using the VII with a major tonal center is pretty common in rock music.


With Fall to Pieces, I still see this as a piece centered around D, using a very similar progression to Sweet Child of Mine (I VII IV, or D C G). The A makes sense, therefore, because it's the V compared to D, and resolves very well to it. (Actually, Sweet Child of Mine made use of the A in this way too.... hmm )

Hmm so instead of usind a dimished chord for the 7th degree.. they flatten the note so it has no alteration and use a mayor chord.. and thats what causes it not to be so dissonant???
#6
Well, it's not dissonant because you're really just doing a bit of modal stuff.

The VII in major implies Mixolydian, if you've had a look at your modes. So, in this case, you could solo over the main progression in Sweet Child of Mine using D Mixolydian. All the notes are in the key of G, it's just that instead of G our center is D.

When the A comes in, now we're mixing D major with D mixolydian. Your ear probably tells you that something is different, but since D is our center and A resolves very well to D, we accept it.
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#8
...and there was I thinking Don't Cry was in the key of A. Jesus I suck at theory.
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#9
Quote by Dream_Axe
but isn't soloing in D mixolydian the same as soloing in G Ionian?


Same notes, but you'll probably end up emphasizing different ones, since your root is D.
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#10
Nice analysis psychodelia, both for theory of the songs and the use of VII chord.

Sometimes you can get good clues about the key or tonal center of a song by listening for the V chord, or something that sounds like it. It's so common in western music and our ears are used to hearing that resolution.
#11
I always thought November Rain was in C Major, and the outro solo being C Minor, or some form or C, certainly not major.

I knew about SCOM being D Major and solo's being E Minor.

Fall to pieces is certainly D Major too.

I may be wrong though, having never learnt any theory in my life!
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#12
Thanx alot.. this has helpd me understand modes.. so much better... so in other words we could use G mixolydian to solo over paradise city's main progresion (I IV VII IV I) right?? it all depends on the note to which the melody resolves and the alterations to determine the mode... For example if we hve a melody that has all 7 notes natural(without alterations) and it resolves to Em we can say its in E Phrygian?
#13
Quote by Dream_Axe
Tso in other words we could use G mixolydian to solo over paradise city's main progresion (I IV VII IV I) right??


Yes

Quote by Dream_Axe
For example if we hve a melody that has all 7 notes natural(without alterations) and it resolves to Em we can say its in E Phrygian?


and yes
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#14
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but isn't Don't Cry Abm and November Rain B/Bm (B for most of the song, and Bm for the badass ending solo)? :>
#15
Modes. A song theoretically in the first degree Major/Ionian, is also theoretically in the second degree Dorian.

I - Major/Ionian
ii - Dorian
iii - Phyrigian
IV - Lydian
V - Mixolydian
vi - Aeolian/Minor
vii - Locrian

So, for example:

C Ionian/Major
D Dorian
E Phyrgian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian/Minor
B Locrian

Those are all in the key of C, but sound like what ever the root is.