#1
I was having a conversation with one of my freinds, and he's really heavy into blues, and I LOVE classical music, but we both just really love music, and we started talking something like "What truly makes a piece of music played on a guitar blues or classical? Or any particular genre?" What sounds Indian to me might sound bluesey to someone else. What sounds jazzy to one person might sound heavy metallish to me.

So freinds, musicians, countrymen, let music your ears, and ask yourself, what makes music what it is?
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#3
Quote by Ultimate_Gio92
what can sound jazzy to one but heavy metal to another?


for real.
that would be awesome. riffs which can randomly change styles completely.
#4
I'm talking like the crazy fast solo licks. I heard this one guy playing some good jazz one time, and played this solo that fit, but sounded like Yngwie at the same time.

I usually don't like jazz, but DAMN this guy was good. We were just at a GC and he left before we could talk to him.
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#6
Quote by Ultimate_Gio92
what can sound jazzy to one but heavy metal to another?


You never know.

Heavy metal and jazz actually blend pretty well (see: technical death metal and even some not-so-technical death metal) and both make frequent use of a huge range of modes and scales. Indeed, I believe Black Sabbath was a blues jazz band before they decided that they wanted to be the heaviest band around.
Quote by marmoseti
Mastering your instrument is being able to play whatever you hear in your head, unhindered by inadequate technique. After that, it's all about what you've got to say, so there would be no "best," just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean.
#7
genre is a vibe in the music, it can be anything, no hard lines here. i just like hearing musicality and musiciainship in the music. music music music
#8
Quote by Ultimate_Gio92
hmm.... in that case i copyright the term jazz metal

Edit: Patent Pending


Too late, buddy, Atheist beat you to the punch. Among others...
Quote by marmoseti
Mastering your instrument is being able to play whatever you hear in your head, unhindered by inadequate technique. After that, it's all about what you've got to say, so there would be no "best," just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean.
#9
That whole encounter was what made be start this conversation with my freind, because this was mixing genres left and right, so we were like, "what really consitiutes a musical style?"
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#10
Quote by MadassAlex
Too late, buddy, Atheist beat you to the punch. Among others...



dont worry.... if they sue ill just say im prejudiced against all races and religions.. always works
#11
Quote by Ultimate_Gio92
dont worry.... if they sue ill just say im prejudiced against all races and religions.. always works


Quote by marmoseti
Mastering your instrument is being able to play whatever you hear in your head, unhindered by inadequate technique. After that, it's all about what you've got to say, so there would be no "best," just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean.
#12
Back on topic, what do you guys think? I would like to hear some opinions on this! My opinion is that in the end, it's what the musician wants it to be.
ALWAYS

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MAKE BELIEV
E WITH YOU,
AND L
IVE IN HARMONY, HARMONY,



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#13
Quote by SG Man Forever
Back on topic, what do you guys think? I would like to hear some opinions on this! My opinion is that in the end, it's what the musician wants it to be.


or whatever the listener wants it to be, cause most of the times, they are the ones who label music
#14
Quote by SG Man Forever
"What truly makes a piece of music played on a guitar blues or classical? Or any particular genre?"


1. Rhythm
2. Melody
3. Harmony
4. Timbre
5. Texture
6. Form
7. Dynamics
#15
Quote by Alexander Y.
1. Rhythm
2. Melody
3. Harmony
4. Timbre
5. Texture
6. Form
7. Dynamics
That is godly. I know its just the seven elements of music, but still. Godly answer.
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#16
Quote by Ultimate_Gio92
hmm.... in that case i copyright the term jazz metal

Edit: Patent Pending


Can I patent Jizz Metal to describe Vai, Malmsteen etc....?
#17
Quote by pmc100
Can I patent Jizz Metal to describe Vai, Malmsteen etc....?

haha
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#18
What sounds Indian to me might sound bluesey to someone else.


No so. Excluding those with abnormatlities, which I will safely assume exist in some form or fashion; we all hear the same tones and overtones. Consonances and dissonances are universal. The degree of catchiness in a tune, while being immeasureable, is not random, as there do in fact exist stronger combination of tones. The major triad is such a strong grouping of tones because they occur so commonly as overtones and mathematically are built from multiples of the original tone. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to draw some nice conclusions based on that tid bit of information.
Last edited by Erc at Sep 26, 2007,
#19
Quote by Alexander Y.
1. Rhythm
2. Melody
3. Harmony
4. Timbre
5. Texture
6. Form
7. Dynamics

8. Lyrical theme
9. Singing style and technique
#20
Quote by Erc
No so. Excluding those with abnormatlities, which I will safely assume exist in some form or fashion; we all hear the same tones and overtones. Consonances and dissonances are universal. The degree of catchiness in a tune, while being immeasureable, is not random, as there do in fact exist stronger combination of tones. The major triad is such a strong grouping of tones because they occur so commonly as overtones and mathematically are built from multiples of the original tone. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to draw some nice conclusions based on that tid bit of information.


While all that sounds very educated, the fact remains that people still have ideas of what something sounds like. I was messing around in a harmonic minor, and I thought the lick I had played was very Indian sounding, while my freind was like, 'cool, I didn't know you played bues", and I was like, wtf? We may all hear the same tones and overtones, but they speak to us differently. Music is not an exact science, there is no formula that says certian notes will always sound good or bad, or no way of telling whether or not a piece of music will sound good or not. Music is built along math, but unlike math, it is absolutely and completely subjective, which is why it holds such a special place in people's hearts.
ALWAYS

WANNA BE WITH YOU,
MAKE BELIEV
E WITH YOU,
AND L
IVE IN HARMONY, HARMONY,



OH, LOOVE!
#21
Quote by Ultimate_Gio92
what can sound jazzy to one but heavy metal to another?


Killing in the name.
What's timbre?
And what's form?
Quote by metal4all
Just, no. Locrian should be treated like that gay cousin. Just avoid him cuz he's weird, unstable, and is attracted to the wrong thing.


Quote by steven seagull
Big deal, I bought a hamster once and they put that in a box...doesn't make it a scale.
#23
Quote by CanCan
8. Lyrical theme
9. Singing style and technique
10. The CD's placement in the record store.

Quote by SG Man Forever
While all that sounds very educated, the fact remains that people still have ideas of what something sounds like. I was messing around in a harmonic minor, and I thought the lick I had played was very Indian sounding, while my freind was like, 'cool, I didn't know you played bues", and I was like, wtf? We may all hear the same tones and overtones, but they speak to us differently. Music is not an exact science, there is no formula that says certian notes will always sound good or bad, or no way of telling whether or not a piece of music will sound good or not. Music is built along math, but unlike math, it is absolutely and completely subjective, which is why it holds such a special place in people's hearts.
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Maybe a vague guitar line could be perceived differently than it was intended, but actual Indian music sounds NOTHING like blues. And metal sounds nothing like jazz. The only ambiguities in regards to genre are from crossover and fusion elements.


Anyways, I can never understand why people put so much value into the concept of genre. Why should anyone care about superficial labels...?
#24
usually the record label slaps on whatever genre they think will sell the most records. Before the days of sell-outs, the artist played things in a certain context, involving more than one instrument (an arrangement).

In reality, no lick/riff we can do on our own has enough hold to be a genre at all, for a guitar riff could easily fit into rock, metal, shred, and jazz fusion all at the same time. It matters what the other instruments are in a band/orchestral context, how they mesh together, what the singer is doing and how it all fits together

I've seen Three Days Grace labeled as grunge, which they sound NOTHING like.
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#25
Quote by Erc
Consonances and dissonances are universal.
No

Although some dissonance sound obviously dissonance, like minor seconds played harmonically and tritones played melodically, some consonance we hear today were dissonant so many years ago, and vica versa. Like the minor third, it was dissonant 700 years ago, but today it is the second most consonant interval in a minor mode. Or the major second or perfect fourth, which were once the most important consonances but now are dissonant. Also, tritones are not really that dissonant in blues, but are increadibly dissonant in classical.

Enough examples?
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        L.
#26
cynic = jazz metal as does alarum and others anyway i am not sure if it was freak guitar's mattias or if it was the meshuggah guy.some guitarist recorded a song to try and show the similarities that most dont think exist between metal and jazz so he played jazz over a metal drum beat and metal over jazz beats and it was amazing how well they fit
#27
Quote by demonofthenight
No

Although some dissonance sound obviously dissonance, like minor seconds played harmonically and tritones played melodically, some consonance we hear today were dissonant so many years ago, and vica versa. Like the minor third, it was dissonant 700 years ago, but today it is the second most consonant interval in a minor mode. Or the major second or perfect fourth, which were once the most important consonances but now are dissonant. Also, tritones are not really that dissonant in blues, but are increadibly dissonant in classical.

Enough examples?


"the sense of harmonic relation, change, or effect depends on speed (or tempo) as well as on the relative duration of single notes or triadic units. Both absolute time (measurable length and speed) and relative time (proportion and division) must at all times be taken into account in harmonic thinking or analysis." - Richard Franko Goldman (Harmony In Western Music)

I think that quote pretty much speaks for itself.